The '20-'21 White Sox offseason

[Lake Shore Drive]

The Sox Machine Offseason Plan Project results:

Sox Machine 2020-21 Offseason Plan Project: The mandatory decisions

Author Jim Margalus Writing about the White Sox for a 16th season, first here, then at South Side Sox,...

www.soxmachine.com

It makes for a really cool read. Been following this for a while and it provided the blueprint for my own keep/let go opinions that I posted in here a few days back. What's interesting in this summation is how diehard, knowledgeable Sox fans are more often than not on the same page when it comes to retaining/letting go players for arbitration, options, or free agency, altho the opinions were a bit more diverse for manager and pitching coach. The only summation that kinda puzzled me is how just two thirds of the respondents thought it was a good idea to pick up Leury's option. To me this was a no brainer from moment one.

 

[Mingo]

The Sox Machine Offseason Plan Project results:

Sox Machine 2020-21 Offseason Plan Project: The mandatory decisions

Author Jim Margalus Writing about the White Sox for a 16th season, first here, then at South Side Sox,...

www.soxmachine.com

It makes for a really cool read. Been following this for a while and it provided the blueprint for my own keep/let go opinions that I posted in here a few days back. What's interesting in this summation is how diehard, knowledgeable Sox fans are more often than not on the same page when it comes to retaining/letting go players for arbitration, options, or free agency, altho the opinions were a bit more diverse for manager and pitching coach. The only summation that kinda puzzled me is how just two thirds of the respondents thought it was a good idea to pick up Leury's option. To me this was a no brainer from moment one.

Some thought - don't pick up his option and sign him to a lower number. He is worth the option from a number of points of view.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Some thought - don't pick up his option and sign him to a lower number. He is worth the option from a number of points of view.

But the problem with that would have been if we declined the option, he was free to sign with any other club. Now it's possible that Leury wouldn't have been able to find a team willing to pay at least $3.5m, but my guess is multiple teams would have come calling on him and likely driven the price above the option cost. It's of course something we'll never know, but I'll continue to believe that it was truly a no brainer in picking up that option.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

As sadly predicted by yours truly the day their respective teams made each a QO, Marcus Stroman accepted the Mets offer and likewise did Kevin Gausman with the Giants. This of course reduces the pool of starting pitchers in general and more sharply reduces the number of those who were considered in the upper ranks of FA starters. This in turn helps just about every remaining starter still available, as it only betters their negotiating stances. And it may really help Trevor Bauer even more, altho you might ask why does he benefit when he's already at the top of the food chain. But now he's clearly, without question the only top of the line pitcher out there in a sea of ballclubs who are in dire need of improving their rotation. Some of these clubs can no longer say why bother spending the big coin when they can sign Bauer Lites such as Stroman or Gausman for a lot less.

This of course also greatly helps the pitchers ranked below these two, as they try to fill the 'next man up' spot in line. Starters like Odorizzi, Paxton, Tanaka, Walker, etc are seeing their stock rise just by subtraction. If we were hoping to sign an impact starter, one who we could say with confidence has the opportunity to immediately step in as the #3 rotation guy, that's all but gone now....well, unless Reinsdorf is willing to throw some freakin serious money at Bauer that is. Hahn now may have only a back end starter from the existing pickins to go after, and what bites is there ae that many more sharks in the water going after the same prey.

 

[Mingo]

As sadly predicted by yours truly the day their respective teams made each a QO, Marcus Stroman accepted the Mets offer and likewise did Kevin Gausman with the Giants. This of course reduces the pool of starting pitchers in general and more sharply reduces the number of those who were considered in the upper ranks of FA starters. This in turn helps just about every remaining starter still available, as it only betters their negotiating stances. And it may really help Trevor Bauer even more, altho you might ask why does he benefit when he's already at the top of the food chain. But now he's clearly, without question the only top of the line pitcher out there in a sea of ballclubs who are in dire need of improving their rotation. Some of these clubs can no longer say why bother spending the big coin when they can sign Bauer Lites such as Stroman or Gausman for a lot less.

This of course also greatly helps the pitchers ranked below these two, as they try to fill the 'next man up' spot in line. Starters like Odorizzi, Paxton, Tanaka, Walker, etc are seeing their stock rise just by subtraction. If we were hoping to sign an impact starter, one who we could say with confidence has the opportunity to immediately step in as the #3 rotation guy, that's all but gone now....well, unless Reinsdorf is willing to throw some freakin serious money at Bauer that is. Hahn now may have only a back end starter from the existing pickins to go after, and what bites is there ae that many more sharks in the water going after the same prey.

At least now the Sox have an actual talented team to sell - as an advantage over other teams. I'm thinking Gausman, Odorizzi, and Paxton as targets.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

At least now the Sox have an actual talented team to sell - as an advantage over other teams. I'm thinking Gausman, Odorizzi, and Paxton as targets.

Odorizzi and Paxton perhaps, but Gausman accepted the QO from the Giants, so he's out.

 

[Mingo]

Odorizzi and Paxton perhaps, but Gausman accepted the QO from the Giants, so he's out.

That was fast - pitching talent is too valuable to let go - it seems.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Looks like the Sox are going with Giolito's HS pitching coach as the team's pitching coach. Honest.

Reports: Sox tab Giolito HS coach Katz as pitching coach

According to multiple reports, the White Sox have settled on Ethan Katz as their next pitching coach. Katz, most recently the San Francisco Giants’ assistant pitching coach, coached Lucas Giolito in high school.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Mingo]

Looks like the Sox are going with Giolito's HS pitching coach as the team's pitching coach. Honest.

Reports: Sox tab Giolito HS coach Katz as pitching coach

According to multiple reports, the White Sox have settled on Ethan Katz as their next pitching coach. Katz, most recently the San Francisco Giants’ assistant pitching coach, coached Lucas Giolito in high school.

www.nbcsports.com

This is great news. This guy is highly sought after as a pitching coach. Now all he has to do is turn Dunning, Lopez and Cease into Giolitos' to prove to @Jiddy he's worth it. Of course, all coaching is intangible.

 

[idseer]

This is great news. This guy is highly sought after as a pitching coach. Now all he has to do is turn Dunning, Lopez and Cease into Giolitos' to prove to @Jiddy he's worth it. Of course, all coaching is intangible.

but he isn't the one who shortened and transformed giolito's delivery is he? wasn't that done just a year ago?

 

[Mingo]

but he isn't the one who shortened and transformed giolito's delivery is he? wasn't that done just a year ago?

He is that guy. Giolito went back to him on his own expense.

 

[idseer]

He is that guy. Giolito went back to him on his own expense.

cool! in that case .... welcome to the club mr. katz!

 

[Jiddy]

This is great news. This guy is highly sought after as a pitching coach. Now all he has to do is turn Dunning, Lopez and Cease into Giolitos' to prove to @Jiddy he's worth it. Of course, all coaching is intangible.

Forget pitching, how is he as a bridge between LaRussa and Anderson? If we don't plug that hole, this ship is sinking baby....Glug glug.

But yeah, if at least one of those 3 (if not more) you named could step into the consistent production limelight, that would be fantastic. Still going to be pissed if we don't sign a reliable pitcher this offseason....I wouldn't ride our starting pitching hopes on Jesus himself as our new pitching coach...Give me something proven then figure these guys out in the 4-5 spots.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Would you be willing to trade for Blake Snell, and if so, who would you give up?

From MLB.com:

Nov. 14: The Rays are only a couple weeks removed from playing in the World Series, but the American League champions could look different in 2021, writes Mark Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times.

Topkin reports that the Rays missed out on significant revenue this year, not only from playing games without fans during the regular season but also from the 10 “home” postseason games they played without attendance revenue. Tampa Bay also will not receive the revenue-sharing check it is accustomed to receiving on an annual basis. General manager Erik Neander has already said the Rays will need to be “flexible” in their approach this winter.

As Topkin looks through the Rays’ 40-man roster, a pair of stars on high salaries stick out as possible trade candidates that would help the club maintain that flexibility: center fielder Kevin Kiermaier ($11.5 million salary in 2021) and ace pitcher Blake Snell ($10.5 million). Hunter Renfroe, who is projected to earn between $3.6 million and $4.3 million via arbitration according to MLB Trade Rumors, could also be a non-tender candidate for the Rays.

At first glance, maybe even 2nd and 3rd glances, this seems preposterous. The Rays have Snell locked up for three - count em THREE more seasons. And if it was just about any other team except the Rays, who constantly seem to exist in a cash-strapped universe, I'd say all but impossible for a pitcher of Snell's caliber to be a trade candidate. As previously mentioned, he's under contract for three more years, and his salary for each of those are:

2021 - $11.1k
2022 - $13.1k
2023 - $16.6k

Note: the amounts from each year include a $600k signing bonus. He's also eligible for additional bonuses depending on his performances. This is all speculation at best right now, but no doubt if Snell was truly on the trading block, it would take a friggin heap of talent to land his services. Let's face it, how often does a staff ace at age 27 and with three very manageable years remaining on his contract fall into a team's lap? Oh, and lest we forget, he's a lefty to boot. I can't help but think that any package the Sox would come up with must include at the very least Michael Kopech and probably Andrew Vaughn, amongst others. So the question is, if the Rays did dangle Snell as trade bait, who do you guys think Hahn would have to sacrifice to get him? Can anyone come up with an armchair GM package that would somehow keep Vaughn in a Sox uni?

 

[idseer]

Would you be willing to trade for Blake Snell, and if so, who would you give up?

From MLB.com:

Nov. 14: The Rays are only a couple weeks removed from playing in the World Series, but the American League champions could look different in 2021, writes Mark Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times.

Topkin reports that the Rays missed out on significant revenue this year, not only from playing games without fans during the regular season but also from the 10 “home” postseason games they played without attendance revenue. Tampa Bay also will not receive the revenue-sharing check it is accustomed to receiving on an annual basis. General manager Erik Neander has already said the Rays will need to be “flexible” in their approach this winter.

As Topkin looks through the Rays’ 40-man roster, a pair of stars on high salaries stick out as possible trade candidates that would help the club maintain that flexibility: center fielder Kevin Kiermaier ($11.5 million salary in 2021) and ace pitcher Blake Snell ($10.5 million). Hunter Renfroe, who is projected to earn between $3.6 million and $4.3 million via arbitration according to MLB Trade Rumors, could also be a non-tender candidate for the Rays.

At first glance, maybe even 2nd and 3rd glances, this seems preposterous. The Rays have Snell locked up for three - count em THREE more seasons. And if it was just about any other team except the Rays, who constantly seem to exist in a cash-strapped universe, I'd say all but impossible for a pitcher of Snell's caliber to be a trade candidate. As previously mentioned, he's under contract for three more years, and his salary for each of those are:

2021 - $11.1k
2022 - $13.1k
2023 - $16.6k

Note: the amounts from each year include a $600k signing bonus. He's also eligible for additional bonuses depending on his performances. This is all speculation at best right now, but no doubt if Snell was truly on the trading block, it would take a friggin heap of talent to land his services. Let's face it, how often does a staff ace at age 27 and with three very manageable years remaining on his contract fall into a team's lap? Oh, and lest we forget, he's a lefty to boot. I can't help but think that any package the Sox would come up with must include at the very least Michael Kopech and probably Andrew Vaughn, amongst others. So the question is, if the Rays did dangle Snell as trade bait, who do you guys think Hahn would have to sacrifice to get him? Can anyone come up with an armchair GM package that would somehow keep Vaughn in a Sox uni?

i think the sox would be crazy to give up that much for snell who has had 1 outstanding season in 5 years. and your salary numbers cannot be right i'm sure you mean M not K.

here are some names to chew on ...

dick ellsworth
wally bunker
mark fidrych
dave fleming
justin thompson
shawn estes
wayne garland
kent bottenfield
esteban loaiza

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

i think the sox would be crazy to give up that much for snell who has had 1 outstanding season in 5 years. and your salary numbers cannot be right i'm sure you mean M not K.

here are some names to chew on ...

dick ellsworth
wally bunker
mark fidrych
dave fleming
justin thompson
shawn estes
wayne garland
kent bottenfield
esteban loaiza

Oh DER.....can't believe I put k instead of m, so you're right. My bad. As for those names you've listed, I'm too lazy to look them up, but my guess is there's some kind of comparison or correlation to Snell's situation that you're trying to create. You're right in that Snell has only had one really outstanding season - 2018, and boy was that one hell of a year for him. But even in the others, including this past covid-shortened campaign, he's been anywhere from pretty good to so-so at worst. Again, we have to remember he's only 27, yet already possesses some wicked stuff. He's definitely on the upswing. Now does this mean I feel he'd be worth giving up both Kopech AND Vaughn? Nope, not at all. But it's possible that if the Rays do indeed make him a trade candidate, it just might take that level of quality to land him, no matter which team it is that could secure his services.

 

[idseer]

Oh DER.....can't believe I put k instead of m, so you're right. My bad. As for those names you've listed, I'm too lazy to look them up, but my guess is there's some kind of comparison or correlation to Snell's situation that you're trying to create. You're right in that Snell has only had one really outstanding season - 2018, and boy was that one hell of a year for him. But even in the others, including this past covid-shortened campaign, he's been anywhere from pretty good to so-so at worst. Again, we have to remember he's only 27, yet already possesses some wicked stuff. He's definitely on the upswing. Now does this mean I feel he'd be worth giving up both Kopech AND Vaughn? Nope, not at all. But it's possible that if the Rays do indeed make him a trade candidate, it just might take that level of quality to land him, no matter which team it is that could secure his services.

those names are basically one hit wonders. the history of pitchers is littered with them. my point was i'd never give up good looking young prospects for a guy who is 3 years away from one extraordinary year in his career. i don't see that snell is on an upswing as he's 10-10 since that cy young year. minus snell's one good year he's 21-25 with an average era. right now i wouldn't give up a MUCH cheaper kopech OR vaughn. i'd be very surprised if anyone gave up that much.

 

[Mingo]

If you have a pitching coach who sees something fixable in a pitcher who has had success, but might be a trade target and gotten cheaply enough - go for it. I'm not saying that applies to Snell, but I'm sure there are guys out there. However, don't rely on that guy - get some proven starter help before anything else.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

If you have a pitching coach who sees something fixable in a pitcher who has had success, but might be a trade target and gotten cheaply enough - go for it. I'm not saying that applies to Snell, but I'm sure there are guys out there. However, don't rely on that guy - get some proven starter help before anything else.

Both points well taken. JFTR, I'm still 100% for signing free agents vs trading. But the Snell story intrigued me and naturally I like to bring up such matters for discussion, especially when there really isn't a lot to discuss during this lull in the offseason.

 

[Mingo]

White Sox notes from The Bill James Handbook 2021

Everybody wanted Rick Renteria to stop bunting, so he stopped bunting. His reward? Getting fired for a guy who’s...

www.soxmachine.com

Some interesting stats for what its worth. The most interesting to me - were the Sox defensive stats.