The '20-'21 White Sox offseason

[idseer]

Ok wait...........first you're always ragging on Reinsdorf for being notoriously cheap - and I might add in many instances I fully agree - but all of a sudden you're now for penny pinching??? As for Vaughn, no one on this board is higher on the kid than me. But he missed an entire year of competitive baseball, and that's after coming straight out of college. He may not be major league ready yet. What I want for him is when he's called up, that he STAYS up. I'm of course all for seeing how he handles ST, but to me he'd have to virtually tear it up in order to go north with the team when it breaks camp. And my definition of him tearing it up is something along the lines of batting over .400 and going yard a number of times.

i am for spending money for our most immediate needs and i haven't changed. a dh/1b/of'r is NOT an immediate need! i want to spend the big bucks on pitching! pitching! pitching! (and i might add a really great manager with experience). blowing big wads on the field considering the players we already have is not smart imo. we would have gone a lot further this year if we'd picked up a really good starter. spending big wads on catching was a waste of money. i think we'd have gone just as far without yasmani. don't you?
and vaughn would do well to be playing alongside the kids we have now. college is like the minors in and of itself. many great players have come into the majors with less than vaughn's experience. some straight from high school! either he can play or he can't. why putz around with him?

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

i am for spending money for our most immediate needs and i haven't changed. a dh/1b/of'r is NOT an immediate need! i want to spend the big bucks on pitching! pitching! pitching! (and i might add a really great manager with experience). blowing big wads on the field considering the players we already have is not smart imo. we would have gone a lot further this year if we'd picked up a really good starter. spending big wads on catching was a waste of money. i think we'd have gone just as far without yasmani. don't you?
and vaughn would do well to be playing alongside the kids we have now. college is like the minors in and of itself. many great players have come into the majors with less than vaughn's experience. some straight from high school! either he can play or he can't. why putz around with him?

Hahn tried to land Wheeler and even offered a bigger contract than the one he signed for Philly, and this is AFTER he signed Grandal. Can't fault him for trying. And then he went with Plan B and signed Keuchel. I'd say that was a pretty good move and money well spent. There are only so many pitchers out there this offseason and at least one of them, Bauer, is going to cost HUGE dollars, especially if he demands a multi-year contract. Would you be happy if we got him for 5/150m? Somehow I have the impression you'd throw a major shit fit over that. Who else is on your pitching wish list and how much would you like to see the Sox spend in order to land his services? I'd be very curious to see your numbers. Please be specific.

 

[idseer]

Hahn tried to land Wheeler and even offered a bigger contract than the one he signed for Philly, and this is AFTER he signed Grandal. Can't fault him for trying. And then he went with Plan B and signed Keuchel. I'd say that was a pretty good move and money well spent. There are only so many pitchers out there this offseason and at least one of them, Bauer, is going to cost HUGE dollars, especially if he demands a multi-year contract. Would you be happy if we got him for 5/150m? Somehow I have the impression you'd throw a major shit fit over that. Who else is on your pitching wish list and how much would you like to see the Sox spend in order to land his services? I'd be very curious to see your numbers. Please be specific.

you lost track of what i was saying. pitching is out immediate need and is where i want my big money spent. not big money for positions we don't need nearly as much. if no big fish is within our reach (i don't know why we're not willing to get pitching other teams will get), then spend it on good pitching that will give us innings.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

you lost track of what i was saying. pitching is out immediate need and is where i want my big money spent. not big money for positions we don't need nearly as much. if no big fish is within our reach (i don't know why we're not willing to get pitching other teams will get), then spend it on good pitching that will give us innings.

I must have stated in at least 5 or 6 threads in here that pitching is far and away our biggest need. Just about everybody in the White Sox universe thinks likewise. It's easy for all of us to say, "WE NEED PITCHING!!!" But who do we get and for how much? Is pitcher A,B, or C worth what the market will bear? And are the other teams going to sit idly by and wait for Hahn to make offers?

BTW, when I asked who your pitchers of interest are and what would you offer to land them, I really didn't mean by saying 'be specific' to nail it down to the penny. But a generalized ballpark figure can at least help us gauge what you think a fair, competitive offer would detail. We do it all the time in here, so it really shouldn't be that difficult. For instance, I one time opined that no team would offer Bauer, who is everyone's top pitching target, $30m. But the hype for his services grows almost daily and it's not only possible that he gets that $30m, but it might even be good for 4-6 years at that. I've actually seen those numbers bandied about on various sports sites. And we've seen first hand the last half dozen years how the hype often drives up the price for the premier talents.

If I'm the armchair GM, I'd now be willing to offer Bauer a 1+1 for $30m+, if that's what it would take to land him. That amount may not fly any longer, but it would be worth taking a shot. Who are the other pitchers you have in mind - Stroman, Gausman, Tanaka, etc? How much do you think it would take to sign one of these instead?

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Small point of interest update: Robbie Ray just re-signed with the Blue Jays, making him the first FA in the offseason to be taken off the board. I doubt he was on any Sox fan's radar, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

 

[idseer]

I must have stated in at least 5 or 6 threads in here that pitching is far and away our biggest need. Just about everybody in the White Sox universe thinks likewise. It's easy for all of us to say, "WE NEED PITCHING!!!" But who do we get and for how much? Is pitcher A,B, or C worth what the market will bear? And are the other teams going to sit idly by and wait for Hahn to make offers?

BTW, when I asked who your pitchers of interest are and what would you offer to land them, I really didn't mean by saying 'be specific' to nail it down to the penny. But a generalized ballpark figure can at least help us gauge what you think a fair, competitive offer would detail. We do it all the time in here, so it really shouldn't be that difficult. For instance, I one time opined that no team would offer Bauer, who is everyone's top pitching target, $30m. But the hype for his services grows almost daily and it's not only possible that he gets that $30m, but it might even be good for 4-6 years at that. I've actually seen those numbers bandied about on various sports sites. And we've seen first hand the last half dozen years how the hype often drives up the price for the premier talents.

If I'm the armchair GM, I'd now be willing to offer Bauer a 1+1 for $30m+, if that's what it would take to land him. That amount may not fly any longer, but it would be worth taking a shot. Who are the other pitchers you have in mind - Stroman, Gausman, Tanaka, etc? How much do you think it would take to sign one of these instead?

i KNOW you know pitching is our greatest need. you keep missing my point here. forget the pitching conundrum. I'M saying don't spend $15/20 million in the field! whether or not you get your pitcher!

i think it'd be fair (assuming you can't land the pitcher you SHOULD land) to spend $12-15 on a bonafide innings eater who can win you 10-12 games. odorizzi ($15M), quintana ($10/12M), guys like this. and yes, bauer for $25M 1 year or maybe $70M 3 years.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

i KNOW you know pitching is our greatest need. you keep missing my point here. forget the pitching conundrum. I'M saying don't spend $15/20 million in the field! whether or not you get your pitcher!

i think it'd be fair (assuming you can't land the pitcher you SHOULD land) to spend $12-15 on a bonafide innings eater who can win you 10-12 games. odorizzi ($15M), quintana ($10/12M), guys like this. and yes, bauer for $25M 1 year or maybe $70M 3 years.

There, you see? That wasn't so bad. You came up with some names and numbers - I like that!! I'll continue to disagree on not spending some big coin on a position player/DH even if we are able to land a couple of innings eaters. Yes, by far starting pitching is our biggest need, but it's not our only need. I don't see why we can't try to accomplish both objectives. Granted, if we were to land Bauer, that might be it for any other big time spending, but I'd be fine with this.

 

[Mingo]

i KNOW you know pitching is our greatest need. you keep missing my point here. forget the pitching conundrum. I'M saying don't spend $15/20 million in the field! whether or not you get your pitcher!

i think it'd be fair (assuming you can't land the pitcher you SHOULD land) to spend $12-15 on a bonafide innings eater who can win you 10-12 games. odorizzi ($15M), quintana ($10/12M), guys like this. and yes, bauer for $25M 1 year or maybe $70M 3 years.

I agree with these thoughts Iddy. I would add James Paxton and Corey Kluber as two who the Sox need to see if they have resolved injuries and potentially sign. I think there are 3 guys who can be signed at $10 mill each - who can produce to rotation arms for a team with this offense.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

I agree with these thoughts Iddy. I would add James Paxton and Corey Kluber as two who the Sox need to see if they have resolved injuries and potentially sign. I think there are 3 guys who can be signed at $10 mill each - who can produce to rotation arms for a team with this offense.

I'd be quite nervous with Kluber and to a lesser extent, Paxton, altho the latter I'd at least be open to signing at a reasonable rate. Unfortunately for Kluber, he's become too injury-riddled and I fear the second coming of Gio Gonzalez. The same with Paxton, but again to a lesser extent.

 

[idseer]

There, you see? That wasn't so bad. You came up with some names and numbers - I like that!! I'll continue to disagree on not spending some big coin on a position player/DH even if we are able to land a couple of innings eaters. Yes, by far starting pitching is our biggest need, but it's not our only need. I don't see why we can't try to accomplish both objectives. Granted, if we were to land Bauer, that might be it for any other big time spending, but I'd be fine with this.

it WAS hard! specifics aren't my thing, usually. you can't be specific because you're not that close to the game. there are tens of players that could help with reasonable money and there are players who'll hurt your team one way or another. being specific is for gm's, scouts, coaches etc. i'm more concerned with what is spent in what direction. in a way like in 'moneyball' where names aren't as important as stats and figures. we don't know what's the situation for this player or that, who can be had and who can't. i know you like to dive deep and pick names of potential players based on contract status etc. not me. that's only a small piece of what a gm has to look at so i don't bother. i just want action when we need action, regardless of who the player is. i don't want to waste money on players we don't need. the more you waste the less you have when the right big fish comes along which is why i'd never spend upwards of $20M for a versatile guy in the field unless he was a potential hof'r type. ozuna is no hof'r! this is why i hated the yasmani deal. we didn't NEED a catcher at that point. and it sapped away the very money that MIGHT have gotten us bauer.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

it WAS hard! specifics aren't my thing, usually. you can't be specific because you're not that close to the game. there are tens of players that could help with reasonable money and there are players who'll hurt your team one way or another. being specific is for gm's, scouts, coaches etc. i'm more concerned with what is spent in what direction. in a way like in 'moneyball' where names aren't as important as stats and figures. we don't know what's the situation for this player or that, who can be had and who can't. i know you like to dive deep and pick names of potential players based on contract status etc. not me. that's only a small piece of what a gm has to look at so i don't bother. i just want action when we need action, regardless of who the player is. i don't want to waste money on players we don't need. the more you waste the less you have when the right big fish comes along which is why i'd never spend upwards of $20M for a versatile guy in the field unless he was a potential hof'r type. ozuna is no hof'r! this is why i hated the yasmani deal. we didn't NEED a catcher at that point. and it sapped away the very money that MIGHT have gotten us bauer.

Hey, I'm proud of you. No one is going to think less of you for putting up what I feel were quite reasonable numbers. And yes, you're 100% right. I do like to deep dive and mention specific players & pitchers, but really it's more for simply getting some conversation going in here. We're all diehard Sox fans, but in the offseason, at least until there's some real activity taking place with signings or trades, what else is there to do? We can agree, we can disagree, but really all it's for is to generate some buzz. I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

 

[Mingo]

I'd be quite nervous with Kluber and to a lesser extent, Paxton, altho the latter I'd at least be open to signing at a reasonable rate. Unfortunately for Kluber, he's become too injury-riddled and I fear the second coming of Gio Gonzalez. The same with Paxton, but again to a lesser extent.

LOL - That's why I said the Sox need to determine if their injuries have resolved. Perhaps - this is a White Sox strategy I'm too used to, but check these guys out medically and over sign how many you need and sort them out later.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Hmmm, could this unnamed team be the White Sox? From CBS Sports MLB Rumors:

Free agent center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr. is perhaps seeing his market develop here in the early weeks of the offseason. WEEI's Rob Bradford reports that, according to sources, the Red Sox have already reached out to Bradley about a possible reunion in Boston. As well, the Astros and an unnamed AL Central team also have interest in him. The Astros would presumably have interest in him as a replacement for outgoing free agent George Springer, who may command more than Houston is willing to pay.

At initial glance, one might not think the unnamed team would be the Twins, being they have Buxton patrolling CF, altho he's oft-injured. It's possible they have Bradley Jr in mind for RF. Max Kepler, their current starter in right, is a decent, steady player, but is also quite replaceable. The Indians are trying to dump payroll, so they don't make any sense. It's possible that either KC or the Tigs could be chasing him, but they're probably still a couple of years away from taking on large, long term contracts. That leaves the Good Guys. Now of course we're kind of in the same sitch as Minny, with Robert set to be the CF fixture for years to come. And our part time RF, Adam Engel, is better defensively than his Twins counterpart. But I don't think the Sox see Engel as giving the team anything more than his current part time/platoon style of playing. And notice I never bothered bringing Mazara into the mix, as I continue to believe he will be non-tendered. Stay tuned, this could get interesting in the coming weeks.

 

[Jiddy]

Y'all goin' round these circles...but I'm gonna go the Hahn route: The money will be spent. It's our time now boys...Let's just hope they don't f*ck it up with the wrong guys-be it position-related or otherwise. We're making a splash this offseason one way or another. Gonna see where the chips fall first before worrying much about it.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Nice take here on what's titled the five biggest offseason questions:

MLB's five biggest offseason questions, including just how cold it will be on free-agent market

The MLB offseason is here, and we pose five questions that will determine what it looks like

www.cbssports.com

What is particularly interesting is this portion from Question 1: ...the non-tender class could be robust, to the extent that it throws the supply-demand ratio out of whack. Think of it this way: the greater the number of available players, the less inclined teams feel to pay up.

Everyone talks of the free agents and potential trade candidates, but there has been virtually no conversation as to the number of players who will end up being non-tendered and how that impacts both the FA signings and trades. So I believe this adds a 3rd element to the conversations in the coming weeks. Just looking at the possible number of our players who will likely be non-tendered, then factor in all 30 teams doing something similar. It will be somewhat akin to an elevated waiver wire.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Y'all goin' round these circles...but I'm gonna go the Hahn route: The money will be spent. It's our time now boys...Let's just hope they don't f*ck it up with the wrong guys-be it position-related or otherwise. We're making a splash this offseason one way or another. Gonna see where the chips fall first before worrying much about it.

Jiddy, I don't think I've seen you this positive since I joined the Sox board several years back. Me likey lots. But as much as I enjoy the posi-spin, I'm not sure I share the same opinion. I think I would have been 100% on board with it had the full 162 game season played out minus the ginormous financial impact due to the covid. There was never a doubt in my mind that the Sox were a team on the rise and would be a blast to follow. I'm sure attendance would have spiked significantly, with this coming season tickets increasing dramatically. But now all bets are off. While we're probably all more confident than not that there will be a full season in '21, no one can declare this with complete certainty. Where we are in complete agreement tho is that the TIME IS NOW!!! No disputing that at all. This is the time to strike, to fill out the roster as needed in order to produce a team that can compete for the Big Enchilada.

 

[Jiddy]

Jiddy, I don't think I've seen you this positive since I joined the Sox board several years back. Me likey lots. But as much as I enjoy the posi-spin, I'm not sure I share the same opinion. I think I would have been 100% on board with it had the full 162 game season played out minus the ginormous financial impact due to the covid. There was never a doubt in my mind that the Sox were a team on the rise and would be a blast to follow. I'm sure attendance would have spiked significantly, with this coming season tickets increasing dramatically. But now all bets are off. While we're probably all more confident than not that there will be a full season in '21, no one can declare this with complete certainty. Where we are in complete agreement tho is that the TIME IS NOW!!! No disputing that at all. This is the time to strike, to fill out the roster as needed in order to produce a team that can compete for the Big Enchilada.

Bauer/Stroman are obviously the big prizes...Either one of them would put us in prime position. Of course, if both get paid contracts that are Manny Machado astronomical we could lose out I guess...

Then it gets interesting. So many "I wonder if this guy still has anything in the tank" possibilities...Hamels...Lester....King Felix...Arrieta...Kluber...All can probably be had on 1 year deals or 1 and club option etc where we can escape.

Then there's the slightly younger ones like Quintana/Odorizzi that imo are "prove its" but will probably want 2+ years...which in ways seems more risky to me.

My gut says we land one of the two big ones though...and if not, some kind of trade occurs...which I'm not about to start going down all those roads...

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Bauer/Stroman are obviously the big prizes...Either one of them would put us in prime position. Of course, if both get paid contracts that are Manny Machado astronomical we could lose out I guess...

Then it gets interesting. So many "I wonder if this guy still has anything in the tank" possibilities...Hamels...Lester....King Felix...Arrieta...Kluber...All can probably be had on 1 year deals or 1 and club option etc where we can escape.

Then there's the slightly younger ones like Quintana/Odorizzi that imo are "prove its" but will probably want 2+ years...which in ways seems more risky to me.

My gut says we land one of the two big ones though...and if not, some kind of trade occurs...which I'm not about to start going down all those roads...

I've said all along and continue to believe that Bauer is in play, but only with a limited contract. If he ends up going with a 4,5,6 year type of contract, we're out of the running because you know it will be HUGE in total. There have been conflicting rumors as to whether or not Stroman signs the QO. Even if he doesn't there's still a chance he remains with the Mets. But if he does decide to nix the offer, let's hope that Hahn is all over him like a fly on stink. The rest of the pitchers out there are somewhat afterthoughts and we'd just have to wait and see who's available and how much it would take to ink them.

 

[idseer]

why are the "really big" pitcher's contracts out of our reach? do other teams have more money to spend than the sox? i don't think so, so why must we feel if bauer wants a 3, 4 or 5 year contract we can't compete? i wish to hell reinsdork had had the brains to go get cole last year. imagine what we'd have done this year ... and who'd be the favorite next year? typical sox chickenshit brass.! we should go get bauer i don't care what he costs! SOMEone is going to pay him ... why not the sox"?

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

why are the "really big" pitcher's contracts out of our reach? do other teams have more money to spend than the sox? i don't think so, so why must we feel if bauer wants a 3, 4 or 5 year contract we can't compete? i wish to hell reinsdork had had the brains to go get cole last year. imagine what we'd have done this year ... and who'd be the favorite next year? typical sox chickenshit brass.! we should go get bauer i don't care what he costs! SOMEone is going to pay him ... why not the sox"?

I'm going by history iddy, not what's actually in Reinsdorf's bank account. Of course we have the $$$ to match any team. But we all know his penchant for skimping on pitchers when it comes to long term contracts, altho with the one interesting exception of authorizing the Wheeler money. I'd love to be "shocked" at the Sox matching any long term Bauer contract offer and then some. I just don't see it. Would love to be proven wrong.