The '20-'21 White Sox offseason

[Mingo]

A couple of pitchers here possibly on the trading block:

How Blake Snell, Sonny Gray could send Sox to trade market

The free-agent options past Trevor Bauer might not be super exciting. But recent rumors show there’s more than one way for the White Sox to upgrade their rotation this winter. Blake Snell or Sonny Gray, anyone?

www.nbcsports.com

Now that Morton has taken a one year deal with the Braves, the quality of pitching talent not named Bauer continues to shrink in the free agent market. Snell's name has been mentioned several times in trade rumors of late, so there may be some fire to this smoke. They even devoted a small segment today on the MLB channel to this possibility. Gray's name is new, at least to anything I've read until this article. I'd much prefer Snell, altho he'd cost more in trade capital than Gray. Also mentioned here is Lynn. I'd like to see if Hahn can work something out to land this big feller. He'd only be a rental, but if he can be obtained at a reasonable cost, he'd be worth it.

I'm beginning to think a trade is the best long term strategy for starting pitching help - the rub being how much talent do the Sox give up when we are all greedy to keep the guys we have.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

I'm beginning to think a trade is the best long term strategy for starting pitching help - the rub being how much talent do the Sox give up when we are all greedy to keep the guys we have.

Well, if we rank the top three pitchers from the LSD ratings chart, who are either available as a FA or thru rumored trade, they would be:

Trevor Bauer
Blake Snell
Lance Lynn

4th place isn't even really all that close, talent-wise. And notice that two of these top three can only be acquired thru trade. So I think your point is well taken. The longer Bauer's name remains out there, the more I'm convinced he's gonna sign a whopper multi-year deal, which all but eliminates the Good Guys. So perhaps our focus should be, as you suggest, working out a trade for either Snell or Lynn. Snell gives us multi-year stability, while Lynn should cost a lot less in terms of draft capital. I think a little later today, just to kill some time, I'm gonna come up with two trade scenarios for each pitcher.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Well, if we rank the top three pitchers from the LSD ratings chart, who are either available as a FA or thru rumored trade, they would be:

Trevor Bauer
Blake Snell
Lance Lynn

4th place isn't even really all that close, talent-wise. And notice that two of these top three can only be acquired thru trade. So I think your point is well taken. The longer Bauer's name remains out there, the more I'm convinced he's gonna sign a whopper multi-year deal, which all but eliminates the Good Guys. So perhaps our focus should be, as you suggest, working out a trade for either Snell or Lynn. Snell gives us multi-year stability, while Lynn should cost a lot less in terms of draft capital. I think a little later today, just to kill some time, I'm gonna come up with two trade scenarios for each pitcher.

Make that one trade scenario for each pitcher, that last line was a typo. Anyway, I know we'd all prefer to keep as many prospects as possible, so it would be much easier to sign free agents where we don't lose anyone from the farm. But as I pointed out above, I believe two of the top three pitchers out there, Snell and Lynn, are trade candidates, not free agents. So if we want to acquire their services, we'd have to pony up up. Snell has three years remaining on his contract, Lynn only this coming year - pretty much making him a rental and would not cost nearly as much. Since Lynn's trade would be less complicated with involving personnel, I'll start with him first:

Rangers need pitching and some added power, altho they are several years away from putting together a playoff-caliber ballclub. So as Keyboard GM, I would present 6 prospect offerings, in which they could choose any 2: The info in parentheses is the player's position and prospect ranking #:

Andrew Dalquist (RHP, #11)
Bernardo Flores (LHP, #17)
Zack Burdi (RHP, #16)
Micker Adolfo (OF, #9)
Gavin Sheets (1b, #10)
Jake Burger (3b, #14)


As for the Rays, their top needs would be starting pitching, especially after losing Morton trading Snell, plus catching, lefty BP, and the outfield, and this is assuming Kiermaier leaves, which seems likely. I would present 12 names, including a few vets, and break them into 3 categories. The Rays could choose up to 4 players, but no more than 2 in a given category:

Category 1 - SP/BP
Jonathan Stiever (RHP, #7)
Reynaldo Lopez (RHP)
Dylan Cease (RHP)
Andrew Dalquist (RHP, #11)
Bernardo Flores (LHP, #17)
Konnor Pilkington (LHP, #21)
Category 2 - INF/C
Zack Collins (C/1b/DH)
Gavin Sheets (1b, #10)
Seby Zavala (C/1b, #23)
Category 3 - OF
Blake Rutherford (OF, #13)
Micker Adolfo (OF, #9)
Benyamin Bailey (OF, #20)


As you can see, in either trade the lowest ranked prospect we'd have to give up would still be within our Top 25. So we're offering quality, which I feel is needed to land either pitcher. Obviously Snell would command a greater haul (4 vs 2 for Lynn), so I not only offer more names, but also throw in Stiever, the highest ranked prospect in this group, as well as a few established young vets. But notice who is not included in either trade offering:

Kopech
Vaughn
Kelley
Crochet

These are my four uber prospects and I consider them untouchable. Let's face it, how many of these youngins stand any real shot of making the 26 man roster anyway. If we had a team loaded up with age 30+ players and pitchers, then I'd probably be less inclined to part with some of our prospects or young vets. but this team is already fairly young and more importantly, fairly set, at least from a positional standpoint. So the chances of really making any kind of impact with the parent club is not very likely with many from our farm. So why not dangle a few of them to see who we can land. Ok boys, flame away.

 

[idseer]

1st flame!

actually i'm fine with your lists, mainly with your ending argument that they shouldn't see much action with the club anyway. what scares me is the sox's lists!
i also still feel neither of those arms is worth much (but something) anyway. i want bauer! get used to it ... everytime a REALLY good arm becomes available I WANT THEM! no substitutes will do.
i don't want to hear we won't get bauer because he'll cost a lot. this is a freaking billion dollar team (and saving a bundle already)! start acting like it!

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

1st flame!

actually i'm fine with your lists, mainly with your ending argument that they shouldn't see much action with the club anyway. what scares me is the sox's lists!
i also still feel neither of those arms is worth much (but something) anyway. i want bauer! get used to it ... everytime a REALLY good arm becomes available I WANT THEM! no substitutes will do.
i don't want to hear we won't get bauer because he'll cost a lot. this is a freaking billion dollar team (and saving a bundle already)! start acting like it!

Id, you're preaching to the choir. I'm guessing just about every White Sox fan on the planet wants Bauer. And I'm also guessing just about every White Sox fan on the planet agrees that there's really no excuse for not getting him. But we all know reality, so instead of setting ourselves up for disappointment, at least we can discuss alternatives, even if those alternatives are unacceptable to you and perhaps others. I'm confident we could go far with Bauer on the roster, maybe all the way. But I'm also confident that we could go far without him - maybe all the way - just so long as we don't stand pat this offseason.

 

[Mingo]

I have doubts Bauer is a fit for the White Sox culture. He is all about himself from what I can see. Great talent - he is committed to excellence on the scale of Giolito, but I'm a little concerned with his fit. A sort of Adam Eaton type. IMO

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

I'm guessing just about every White Sox fan on the planet wants Bauer.

I have doubts Bauer is a fit for the White Sox culture. He is all about himself from what I can see. Great talent - he is committed to excellence on the scale of Giolito, but I'm a little concerned with his fit. A sort of Adam Eaton type. IMO

Ok....make that just about every White Sox fan EXCEPT Mingo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hehe, j/k. Actually, you make a fair point, altho I don't see his antics as being disruptive towards his fellow players. In fact, I think if he was to join the Sox, he and TA would immediately become besties.

 

[Mingo]

Ok....make that just about every White Sox fan EXCEPT Mingo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hehe, j/k. Actually, you make a fair point, altho I don't see his antics as being disruptive towards his fellow players. In fact, I think if he was to join the Sox, he and TA would immediately become besties.

The other factor - is the Mets. They don't have to pay Cano or Mookie, but they do have to keep up with the Yankees. I'm going to guess Springer and Beuer to the Mets.

Trevor Beuer is also suspect from a statistical point of view - his 2020 season was so much better than this statistical average - a regression toward the mean is probably in order. He started off his career with about 6 mediocre seasons - than entered a stage where he was good every other year. This is year is a bright and shiny object - in 2019 his ERA was over 6 - two years before that he was over 4.5. His spin rate was so radically increased in 2020 - you have to wonder if this guy who called the Astros out for cheating - maybe has some cheat up is sleeve as well.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Again, points well taken, but I'm not sure how pitchers are able to cheat thru such means as roids or whatever, when it comes to increasing the spin rate. This could be a very naive statement because even way back in the day of little league ball, I was always a positional player - never pitched a day in my life. But I'm not seeing how improving one's spin rate can be accomplished thru cheating. Now if we had an example where a pitcher for a number of years had a FB that avgd 93mph, then suddenly starts clocking at 99, maybe something like roids could come into play.

As for statistical average, I tend to shy away from those numbers because it takes all seasons of performance combined, so when a pitcher (or player for that matter) has a really good season, especially his last one, we tend to think that he'll likely fall back to the mean. But what if his improvement has been a result of hard work, lots of practice, a change in technique, or some various combinations thereof. This is why for veterans, for guys who say have played in the league for at least a half dozen years or more, I usually look at just their last couple of years, maybe three years back tops, because I'm factoring in that they've gained knowledge and experience that have shaped their more recent performances. This is not to suggest by any means that Bauer is guaranteed to duplicate his success this coming season or thereafter. But I would give added weight to what he did this past season vs combining his career numbers to predict how he'll fare in the coming years.

 

[Mingo]

Again, points well taken, but I'm not sure how pitchers are able to cheat thru such means as roids or whatever, when it comes to increasing the spin rate. This could be a very naive statement because even way back in the day of little league ball, I was always a positional player - never pitched a day in my life. But I'm not seeing how improving one's spin rate can be accomplished thru cheating. Now if we had an example where a pitcher for a number of years had a FB that avgd 93mph, then suddenly starts clocking at 99, maybe something like roids could come into play.

As for statistical average, I tend to shy away from those numbers because it takes all seasons of performance combined, so when a pitcher (or player for that matter) has a really good season, especially his last one, we tend to think that he'll likely fall back to the mean. But what if his improvement has been a result of hard work, lots of practice, a change in technique, or some various combinations thereof. This is why for veterans, for guys who say have played in the league for at least a half dozen years or more, I usually look at just their last couple of years, maybe three years back tops, because I'm factoring in that they've gained knowledge and experience that have shaped their more recent performances. This is not to suggest by any means that Bauer is guaranteed to duplicate his success this coming season or thereafter. But I would give added weight to what he did this past season vs combining his career numbers to predict how he'll fare in the coming years.

Pitchers cheat up their spin rate by using pine tar.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Pitchers cheat up their spin rate by using pine tar.

Ahh, point taken, I didn't think of that. Now tho the immediate question to follow is wouldn't the usage of pine tar or some other sticky material be easily detected by umpires or the opposing team calling it out? In any event, I hope everyone here has a fantastic T-Day!!

 

[Mingo]

Ahh, point taken, I didn't think of that. Now tho the immediate question to follow is wouldn't the usage of pine tar or some other sticky material be easily detected by umpires or the opposing team calling it out? In any event, I hope everyone here has a fantastic T-Day!!

If you notice - they throw the ball away just about after every pitch and the umpires don't go out to the mound anymore to check the pitchers for foreign substances. My understanding is lots of pitchers doctor the ball these days.

Report Claims 90 Percent of Pitchers Use Sunscreen to Grip Ball Better | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

Source: Angels fire employee for supplying ball-doctoring substances

MLB has been cracking down on allegations of pitchers applying illegal substances to baseballs. The Angels learned that longtime visiting clubhouse manager Brian Harkins had been aiding visiting pi…

www.ocregister.com

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Well, I asked, you answered! Good stuff.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

A story on the MLB website involves five 'Black Friday' trade scenarios. #5 touches on the Pale Hose acquiring Lance Lynn:

5 Black Friday deals we’d like to see

This is the time of year for big meals ... and big deals? The only things more fun than real trades are fake trades, which is why we annually use this space to concoct swaps that -- hopefully unlike your Thanksgiving turkey -- are half-baked. But they’re stuffed with fodder

www.mlb.com

5) The White Sox like Lance a lot
White Sox get: RHP Lance Lynn
Rangers get: RHP Dane Dunning (White Sox No. 5 prospect), OF James Beard (White Sox No. 18 prospect)

What is the meaning of life? Is there life after death? Why is Lynn still on the Rangers?

Look, I can’t answer the world’s most difficult questions. But as my colleague Mike Petriello addressed recently, the Rangers have ample reason to trade Lynn this winter. That they didn’t at the Trade Deadline was perplexing both from their standpoint and of those contenders that should have been more aggressive in pursuit of this accomplished arm, but we’ve got to focus on the future, not the past.

We don’t yet know if the Sox are willing to pay the kind of money it would take to add Trevor Bauer. So this is a perfectly reasonable offer of two young players in exchange for one year of Lynn, whose ERA+ over the past two seasons is 40 percent better than league average. This is exactly the sort of win-now move Chicago ought to be pursuing now that it has turned the corner and hired a Hall of Fame manager. The time is now! Lynn teams with Lucas Giolito and Dallas Keuchel to front a strong rotation in which Michael Kopech could be ready to break through in 2021, and the Rangers get a controllable young starting option and an outfielder who shares a name with a champion of American cuisine. I give this deal a chef’s kiss.


Not too far off my suggested trade offer from a couple of days back, but I'd prefer not having to surrender Dunning. My top pitching offer was Dalquist, but I'd be more than willing to part with Stiever if it would cement the trade. The best feature of the other prospect mentioned, James Beard, is he is without question the fastest runner in the organization and likely a top 5 in all of baseball. But that's also his chief skill. Decent glove, good range, so-so hitting. Easily worth giving up.

 

[Mingo]

A story on the MLB website involves five 'Black Friday' trade scenarios. #5 touches on the Pale Hose acquiring Lance Lynn:

5 Black Friday deals we’d like to see

This is the time of year for big meals ... and big deals? The only things more fun than real trades are fake trades, which is why we annually use this space to concoct swaps that -- hopefully unlike your Thanksgiving turkey -- are half-baked. But they’re stuffed with fodder

www.mlb.com

5) The White Sox like Lance a lot
White Sox get: RHP Lance Lynn
Rangers get: RHP Dane Dunning (White Sox No. 5 prospect), OF James Beard (White Sox No. 18 prospect)

What is the meaning of life? Is there life after death? Why is Lynn still on the Rangers?

Look, I can’t answer the world’s most difficult questions. But as my colleague Mike Petriello addressed recently, the Rangers have ample reason to trade Lynn this winter. That they didn’t at the Trade Deadline was perplexing both from their standpoint and of those contenders that should have been more aggressive in pursuit of this accomplished arm, but we’ve got to focus on the future, not the past.

We don’t yet know if the Sox are willing to pay the kind of money it would take to add Trevor Bauer. So this is a perfectly reasonable offer of two young players in exchange for one year of Lynn, whose ERA+ over the past two seasons is 40 percent better than league average. This is exactly the sort of win-now move Chicago ought to be pursuing now that it has turned the corner and hired a Hall of Fame manager. The time is now! Lynn teams with Lucas Giolito and Dallas Keuchel to front a strong rotation in which Michael Kopech could be ready to break through in 2021, and the Rangers get a controllable young starting option and an outfielder who shares a name with a champion of American cuisine. I give this deal a chef’s kiss.


Not too far off my suggested trade offer from a couple of days back, but I'd prefer not having to surrender Dunning. My top pitching offer was Dalquist, but I'd be more than willing to part with Stiever if it would cement the trade. The best feature of the other prospect mentioned, James Beard, is he is without question the fastest runner in the organization and likely a top 5 in all of baseball. But that's also his chief skill. Decent glove, good range, so-so hitting. Easily worth giving up.

LOL - agree keep Dunning. I suggested Stiever, but they can have James Beard all day long. I think this is a likely play for the Sox.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

As expected, Jimmy M is in demand.

Report: Multiple teams interested in signing James McCann

According to a report, the White Sox have some competition if they want to re-sign James McCann, with multiple teams showing interest in the free-agent catcher.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

First detailed article I've found on our new pitching coach, Ethan Katz. Seems he's already at it right out of the gate, focusing on the youngins:

Katz must get young Sox arms ready for World Series run

Ethan Katz takes over as pitching coach with a lot of talent to work with. The White Sox hopes for a World Series run in 2021 could hinge on how well he can prepare some of their unproven young arms.

www.nbcsports.com

“I've been in contact with those three guys (Cease, López and Kopech) a lot. We've got some stuff brewing,” Katz said Tuesday. “They're working hard, they're sending video. I've had great conversations about what I envision they need to be doing this offseason and what I plan on working (on) with them. And they've been very receptive, very excited."

Me likey.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

CBS advises of 4 steps needed for the Sox to have postseason success this coming year. #4 might surprise you, but then again it might not:

Four offseason steps White Sox can take to solidify status as a contender

The Sox took the next step in 2020, and now it's time for the *next* next step

www.cbssports.com

 

[idseer]

CBS advises of 4 steps needed for the Sox to have postseason success this coming year. #4 might surprise you, but then again it might not:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/...-take-to-solidify-status-as-a-contender/[/URL

http://

as per #4 ... the only surprise is that more people don't see this.

i do find #1 kind of odd suggesting replacing eloy and using him at dh. that's not fixing any problems. it creates another one.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

http://

as per #4 ... the only surprise is that more people don't see this.

i do find #1 kind of odd suggesting replacing eloy and using him at dh. that's not fixing any problems. it creates another one.

That's why I said it might not be surprising for some Sox diehards that we shouldn't be in the hunt for a DH, especially if the brass feel that Vaughn is ready to assume the role. I still remain on the fence as far as that goes, but I definitely believe we shouldn't sign any DH for longer than a year. That may be hard to accomplish, but I feel Vaughn is no more than a year away, if even that. As for Eloy, I agree. Just leave him in left. He'll get better. Maybe not much, but he'll improve.