Super Bowl's final minutes may unravel Carroll's Seahawks

[Hank Kingsley]

Ed Zachary.

A perfect plan with a perfect outcome.

Gut wrenching loss.

One I won't forget.

 

[WizardHawk]

Ed Zachary.

A perfect plan with a perfect outcome.

Gut wrenching loss.

One I won't forget.

Close win against a defense riddled with injuries.

Heard the stat that Brady had no better than an 80 rating against the other corners for Seattle in that game. He was something close to 150 against Simon. That entire win was purely picking on the backup corner.

But of course losing Lane and having Simon come into that game at all had nothing to do with the outcome. It was all game plan.

You do know most teams have tried to dink and dunk on Seattle since they know you aren't going vertical against that secondary and when healthy it doesn't end up doing much right? They have faced the best offenses in the league over the last 3 years and no one has a winning formula against them.

You tell yourself what makes you feel better, you have my permission. I think most reasonably savvy football fans know a healthy Seattle defense is an entirely different critter than what was on that field that day. Again, championship teams take full advantage of whatever they can and find ways to win. No one is suggesting otherwise, but to ignore the glaring facts shows your blind homerism as most of the NE fans can readily admit that wasn't the defense they expected due to injury.

 

[Rex Racer]

The Chargers carved up the Seattle D, The Cowboys beat them in Seattle, The freaking Rams lousy offenses put up 28 on them and the Raiders who have one of the worst offenses in football scored 24 in a losing effort. The Chiefs beat them too, but we are supposed to believe that the Seahawks' defense is impenetrable and New England only won because a couple of guys had boo boos.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Close win against a defense riddled with injuries.

Heard the stat that Brady had no better than an 80 rating against the other corners for Seattle in that game. He was something close to 150 against Simon. That entire win was purely picking on the backup corner.

But of course losing Lane and having Simon come into that game at all had nothing to do with the outcome. It was all game plan.

You do know most teams have tried to dink and dunk on Seattle since they know you aren't going vertical against that secondary and when healthy it doesn't end up doing much right? They have faced the best offenses in the league over the last 3 years and no one has a winning formula against them.

You tell yourself what makes you feel better, you have my permission. I think most reasonably savvy football fans know a healthy Seattle defense is an entirely different critter than what was on that field that day. Again, championship teams take full advantage of whatever they can and find ways to win. No one is suggesting otherwise, but to ignore the glaring facts shows your blind homerism as most of the NE fans can readily admit that wasn't the defense they expected due to injury.

Like I said a perfect win. Couldn't have been sweeter.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

The Chargers carved up the Seattle D, The Cowboys beat them in Seattle, The freaking Rams lousy offenses put up 28 on them and the Raiders who have one of the worst offenses in football scored 24 in a losing effort. The Chiefs beat them too, but we are supposed to believe that the Seahawks' defense is impenetrable and New England only won because a couple of guys had boo boos.

Careful Rex, they could start name calling.

 

[Rex Racer]

Careful Rex, they could start name calling.

Too late!

 

[WizardHawk]

The Chargers carved up the Seattle D, The Cowboys beat them in Seattle, The freaking Rams lousy offenses put up 28 on them and the Raiders who have one of the worst offenses in football scored 24 in a losing effort. The Chiefs beat them too, but we are supposed to believe that the Seahawks' defense is impenetrable and New England only won because a couple of guys had boo boos.

lol. Kam is having knee surgery. Earl shoulder surgery. Lane had a pass break up and the first interception of the game before brutally breaking his arm. And they still went out to a 10pt lead through 3 quarters. If not for another great play by your rookie corner on the pass break up for Kearse it would have been 17 and pretty much game over. Avril goes down and now the pass rush that had been quite effective for the bulk of that game was gone. Those last two drives had no pass rush and EVERY pass was going against Simon.

I have no problems with pats fans thinking otherwise. Homers have to be true to their teams despite the glaring evidence, but hank is no true pats fan. He's just a hawks hater.

Sorry if the facts are troubling for any of you, but I have zero doubt Seattle wins that game by double digits if lane and avril do not go out of that game, and likely still at least a TD even if both went out if Kam and Earl were 100%. We've seen what they can all do over and over and still nearly beat NE with all those injuries. Just a fact.

Of course they lost games earlier in the year. And it's not a coincidence that Wagner and Kam were missing during that stretch. They both come back healthy and the team goes on a massive winning streak.

You could give credit for the game plan if they beat them by 14 or 21. They didn't. It took a miracle play to save the game. That's not winning by plan, but being fortunate enough to come out of a tight game on top.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

but hank is no true pats fan. He's just a hawks hater.

It isn't possible to multi task?

Trust me I am a Pats fan.

It was just extra special sweet to beat Seattle.

Especially they way it went down.

Now every time some Seattle fan brings up Romo's botched snap, I can bring this up....

And for the record, Wagner was playing versus Dallas, cause he smacked Romo real good once. He just didn't have the stones to make it a whole game.

 

[WizardHawk]

The difference between this years team and the '13 team that won it all was depth. Combine that with an above average amount of serious injuries (19 on the IR) and they lost one too many to overcome.

I'm not sure what you think this has to do with Romo's botched snap though. That will never be eclipsed. Especially until he actually does something in the post season worth talking about.

 

[Rex Racer]

lol. Kam is having knee surgery. Earl shoulder surgery. Lane had a pass break up and the first interception of the game before brutally breaking his arm. And they still went out to a 10pt lead through 3 quarters. If not for another great play by your rookie corner on the pass break up for Kearse it would have been 17 and pretty much game over. Avril goes down and now the pass rush that had been quite effective for the bulk of that game was gone. Those last two drives had no pass rush and EVERY pass was going against Simon.

I have no problems with pats fans thinking otherwise. Homers have to be true to their teams despite the glaring evidence, but hank is no true pats fan. He's just a hawks hater.

Sorry if the facts are troubling for any of you, but I have zero doubt Seattle wins that game by double digits if lane and avril do not go out of that game, and likely still at least a TD even if both went out if Kam and Earl were 100%. We've seen what they can all do over and over and still nearly beat NE with all those injuries. Just a fact.

Of course they lost games earlier in the year. And it's not a coincidence that Wagner and Kam were missing during that stretch. They both come back healthy and the team goes on a massive winning streak.

You could give credit for the game plan if they beat them by 14 or 21. They didn't. It took a miracle play to save the game. That's not winning by plan, but being fortunate enough to come out of a tight game on top.

Nothing miraculous about Butler's INT. Great read on the play, great break on the ball and terrific play knocking the soft ass receiver on his rump.

The only FACTS that are worth a damn are these; Seattle lost and the Seattle faithful have enough excuses to fill Puget Sound.


BTW, our best RB Stephan Ridley was lost for the season and If he'd have played I have zero doubt he would have run for 150yds and 3 TD's in the SB against your soft D. Pats would have won by 20, of that I have zero doubt. And also The Patriots starting inside linebacker and defensive captain also missed the game as he was out for the year and if he'd have played I have zero doubt that Seattle would have been shut out in the Super Bowl. Hell, I have zero doubt that Seattle wouldn't have even crossed mid-field.

 

[WizardHawk]

Mock it all you like. I expect nothing less from you. I didn't bring up guys on the IR like Mebane, Hill, or Richardson. Those are all parts of the game and no team is without guys on IR at the end of the year.

The facts are that the defense was banged up and still nearly beat your team. It's a fact. As in, not subject to debate. Based on actual situations. Sorry it bothers you so much. Well, not really. Glad it bothers you.

I have said many times championship teams take full advantages of mistakes, injuries, and everything else going on with the other team and find ways to win. Seattle did the same the game before. Seattle was fortunate against GB and NE was fortunate against Seattle. That's football.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

It isn't possible to multi task?

Trust me I am a Pats fan.

It was just extra special sweet to beat Seattle.

Especially they way it went down.

Now every time some Seattle fan brings up Romo's botched snap, I can bring this up....

And for the record, Wagner was playing versus Dallas, cause he smacked Romo real good once. He just didn't have the stones to make it a whole game.

LOL. If I were them I'd just claim that I'm also a super big, totally not bandwagon Giants fan.

 

[SonnyCID]

He just didn't have the stones to make it a whole game.

Sounds like Sean Lee in just about every game he's ever played.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Seahawks will be fine... It's one play, it sucked, but it's one play... That's sports it can happen to the best teams... Big games obviously magnify mistakes more... And yes Bevell sucks... Stupid call, worst timing ... can't go back it's over...

 

[Hank Kingsley]

I'm not sure what you think this has to do with Romo's botched snap though. That will never be eclipsed. Especially until he actually does something in the post season worth talking about.

Right...

It has everything to do with the botched snap that Seahawks fans recall so well. While not an exact match it was a deciding play in a playoff game.

Wilson's gaffe was much more pleasant to watch. And on a larger stage.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

LOL. If I were them I'd just claim that I'm also a super big, totally not bandwagon Giants fan.

Totally.....

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Sounds like Sean Lee in just about every game he's ever played.

No argument, I have the ability to criticize my own team and Lee is as fragile as they come.

And I'd even grant that the supposedly high football IQ they say Lee is packing is probably eclipsed in a big way by a guy like Wagner. No way Wagner would have been snoozing like Lee was agaiunst Detroit last year when Stafford poked it over on a sneak.

 

[Gooch1034]

What is luck out of these 3? The GB onside kick fail in the NFCCG? The Kearse catch or the Butler INT?

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

So yes this was written by a Patriots sports writer but he dos make some great points that have not been discussed as far as I have seen as of yet. From when there was just 2 minutes left in the game Wilson just as not experienced enough to get the job done.

Super Bowl's final minutes may unravel Carroll's Seahawks | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

The shock Pete Carroll’s players expressed in the hour after Super Bowl XLIX ended has faded by now.

And it’s probably yielded to anger.

Behind-the-scenes footage of the Seahawks sideline on Showtime’s Inside the NFL and NBCSN’s NFL Turning Point showed a somewhat ruddlerless decision-making process in the final minutes. And cheerleading. Lots of cheerleading.

The breathy explanations that Carroll’s offered about his team’s fateful game-management have made him a sympathetic character nationally. The general sentiment is that Carroll’s being a stand-up guy.

And he is. If one can get past the mealy-mouthed, circular logic he employs, which at first sounds profound but -- when you play it back –- is really just gibberish.

But to the men who entered Super XLIX thinking they might end the night as part of a dynasty, there’s not going to be a lot of sympathy for Pete.

The clock management by Seattle in the final two minutes was embarrassingly bad. It’s the sole reason we’re even discussing whether or not the game-sealing pick thrown by Russell Wilson was the worst playcall in Super Bowl history or simply one of the worst.

That playcall happened because the Seahawks didn’t have enough timeouts to manage their goal-line situation.

Coming out of the two-minute warning -- a period in which Carroll found the time to say to Wilson, “Three timeouts from the 50-yard line, touchdown to win! We never give you one this easy!” --

Malcolm Butler had a spectacular breakup on a pass intended for Jermaine Kearse that stopped the clock with 1:50 left.

Seattle broke its huddle for the second-and-10 play with 20 seconds left on the play clock and were at the line of scrimmage (the New England 49) with 16 seconds left on the play clock.
But there was an initial lack of urgency by Wilson at the line. Indecisiveness reigned as the play clock ticked under five seconds. Wilson called timeout as the play clock was about to hit zeros.

It’s Wilson’s third season. He’s played in the biggest games. Microphones picked him up subtly prodding Carroll to trust him more in big spots. But as a field general, he failed at that juncture.
He needed to take the field coming out of the two-minute warning prepared for the worst and presuming the Seahawks would need all three timeouts in the final 120 seconds. And they wasted one after a mid-range incompletion.

How could Wilson not know? It’s worth wondering just how emphatically Carroll and offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell worked to remind Wilson how important preserving timeouts could be.
Their job is to make sure Wilson understood his job. Their job is not to remind Wilson that all is well and delightedly slap him on the ass.

Which brings us to the next timeout spent.

After Kearse’s 35-yard circus catch put the Seahawks on the Patriots doorstep, Seattle again stopped the clock. This one is a lot more forgivable. It was a bizarre play and it wasn’t even clear for a few seconds if the ball had actually been caught. The Seahawks had to move downfield, get a playcall and get lined up. And they had to do all that after finishing their standard post-play celebrations both on the field and on the sidelines. Given they’d already senselessly burned that first timeout, it would have been smart to explain to Wilson the necessity of holding on tightly to the final two and then, perhaps, he could have gotten his players under control and lined up. But that’s not the type of ship they run over there.

Regardless, Seattle should have been on the 5 with 1:06 left and three timeouts. Instead, they had just two. And they were forced to use one.

Having only one timeout impacted Seattle’s strategy immediately. After running Lynch for five yards on first down, Carroll and his staff knew they needed that last one to stop the clock if a third-down run by Lynch failed. The only way to stop the clock after second down was by incompletion.
So they threw. We know what happened.

The poor coaching didn’t end there. Seattle still had a faint pulse. The Patriots were 18 inches from their goal line. Could the Seahawks force a safety? Or get a stuff and use that timeout? Extending the game was all that mattered. But somebody had to be in charge at that point and tell the players that encroachment would end everything. Seemingly, nobody did. An understandably shell-shocked Seattle defense was desperate. They screwed up. A teammate pushed Michael Bennett from the side, forcing contact with the Patriots line. And that was the game.

The postgame finger-pointing from Seattle players at Bevell, and from Bevell at wide receiver Ricardo Lockette, shows just how thinly-tied the Seahawks unity apparently is. Lynch’s laughter after the Butler interception and the smirk on his face as he walked past Carroll was as good as a neon sign that said, “Somehow, you found a way to [bleep] it up, Pete.”

These are going to be interesting months in Seattle for Carroll, his staff and GM John Schneider. Dealing with a loss of this magnitude is never easy. But when a coaching staff is complicit in the loss with decisions made and not made or coaching points left unmentioned, the leadership will be questioned.

The Seahawks have plenty of intelligent and talented football players. Now, we’ll find out how mature they are.

LOL man it's one thing for Seattle fans to be a little upset/butt hurt over the Pats win, but the Packers are STILL complaining? LOL. What a whiney ass org.

 

[PDay8810]

The Ole Injury Card.
classic woulda throughout this thread...:rollseyes: