SI: Bird better than Lebron

[Leroy Brown]

I am not old enough to have ever seen Larry play. But, isn't Dirk Nowitzski a better comparison?

Dirk was probably on his level as a shooter, but nothing else really. Bird really is a top five non big of all time. He's sick. Just his awareness and ability to make plays where there wasn't a play to be made...he was uncanny. Lebron's better, but that takes nothing away from Bird.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Dirk was probably on his level as a shooter, but nothing else really. Bird really is a top five non big of all time. He's sick. Just his awareness and ability to make plays where there wasn't a play to be made...he was uncanny. Lebron's better, but that takes nothing away from Bird.

Players got decked when they entered the lane. The Pistons weren't the only team doing it. Now you can't even hand check. The NBA is soft now. It's a joke really.

 

[Leroy Brown]

Players got decked when they entered the lane. The Pistons weren't the only team doing it. Now you can't even hand check. The NBA is soft now. It's a joke really.

Uh huh...

The Myth of the Physical 80s | 22nd Timeout

 

[HammerDown]

SportsHoopla just reached out to Pat Riley with Leroy's "they didn't play D in the 80's" sentiments. He declined comment.

 

[Leroy Brown]

SportsHoopla just reached out to Pat Riley with Leroy's "they didn't play D in the 80's" sentiments. He declined comment.

You mean like this?

 

[gordontrue]

Holy uncontested shots. Holy uncontested passes. Holy uncontested everything.

 

[HammerDown]

Holy uncontested shots. Holy uncontested passes. Holy uncontested everything.

Yeah, I'm convinced. None of that happens now.

 

[gordontrue]

Yeah, I'm convinced. None of that happens now.

lol. Touche.

Sure it does... every now and then.... but not to that extent where its seems like every single play.... unless its a 76ers game, maybe

 

[gordontrue]

The Myth of the Physical 80s | 22nd Timeout

That was a great read... so many brilliant quotes.

I'm just happy to be learning that I'm not the only one frustrated by the blinding effect nostalgia has on NBA history.

 

[HammerDown]

Leroy contends that no one played defense in the 80's.

His proof?

Alex English put up 45 on the Lakers in '82.

 

[Leroy Brown]

Leroy contends that no one played defense in the 80's.

His proof?

Alex English put up 45 on the Lakers in '82.

No, no, no...let's not bring that weak ass, politics forum straw man chit up in here. This ain't the 85' Lakers interior defense, ya know.

The proof is the numbers. Just go to basketball reference for that.

The counterargument was all this mythical My Little Pony magical ball movement bullshit.

The 80's film proves that to be garbage. Like the guy who wrote the article you obviously didn't read said:

"In the 80s, isolation basketball dominated offensive strategy (it was literally isolation, cuts off back screens, and mid range spot ups off of down screens. THAT WAS IT.), which left eight of the 10 guys on the court physically disengaged from their opponent for extended periods."

Those dudes just didn't make too many defensive efforts. I can show you film all day, but I'm guessing your Youtube account works just as well as mine.

Here's something else explaining defenses of the 90's vs. today. I mean, I even think the 90's had some great defenses, starting with the Pistons, Bulls, Knicks, and Heat, but this guy's argument is hard to beat.

The Mythic Era of NBA Basketball | The Real Deal Sports- TRDS

 

[tducey]

I agree but think Lebron's bringing it even closer with each passing game.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Dirk was probably on his level as a shooter, but nothing else really. Bird really is a top five non big of all time. He's sick. Just his awareness and ability to make plays where there wasn't a play to be made...he was uncanny. Lebron's better, but that takes nothing away from Bird.

That's a fair take on Bird. As far as who is better, I'll say this.....if they are playing 1 on 1, I think LeBron takes certainly him. If they are playing Horse or 21, I think Bird takes James. On a team, it would depend on how it was built. Bird made everyone on the court better, he stretched the floor with his shooting, he was a GREAT passer, an underrated team defensive player, but above all, a cold blooded killer on the court, as clutch as anyone who ever played. Bird never had the questions LeBron has faced about disappearing in the Finals. I think if everything else were equal, a team with Bird would beat a team with Lebron

 

[Leroy Brown]

That's a fair take on Bird. As far as who is better, I'll say this.....if they are playing 1 on 1, I think LeBron takes certainly him. If they are playing Horse or 21, I think Bird takes James. On a team, it would depend on how it was built. Bird made everyone on the court better, he stretched the floor with his shooting, he was a GREAT passer, an underrated team defensive player, but above all, a cold blooded killer on the court, as clutch as anyone who ever played. Bird never had the questions LeBron has faced about disappearing in the Finals. I think if everything else were equal, a team with Bird would beat a team with Lebron

While Bird was most definitely clutch...there is not a more underrated clutch player in NBA history than James. The reason being is that he has been judged on an unfair curve since day one (and I guess you could put some of it on him) and that every move he's made has been put under a microscope. On another board I used to always challenge Kobe fan posters to go big time playoff performance up against big time playoff performance with me in terms of Bron and Kobe. They always talked shit, but never took the challenge.

If your name isn't Magic, Bird, Michael, or Reggie...you haven't been more clutch in the playoffs than this guy in the last 40 years, excluding dominant bigs. You can't even argue it.

James does everything you said that Bird does, only he's also an individual defensive beast. Here's another ugly truth: Bird's three point shooting is ridiculously overrated for his career. He had four years where he didn't attempt many, and he was absolutely horrible at it when he did.

I love Bird, and if I had an all time team, he'd be on it as my #2 SF, but it's really not that close as Lebron is arguably the #2 non big of all time right now.

 

[lakersrule]

James does everything you said that Bird does, only he's also an individual defensive beast. Here's another ugly truth: Bird's three point shooting is ridiculously overrated for his career. He had four years where he didn't attempt many, and he was absolutely horrible at it when he did.

Bird was a pretty good three point shooter. He had 4 year stretch when he shot 40% or better from deep. That's when he started taking more than one 3PA per game. His career 3P% is higher than Lebron's.

When you are taking less than one 3PA per game, it's not hard for the percentage to be skewed one way or the other.

 

[Leroy Brown]

Bird was a pretty good three point shooter. He had 4 year stretch when he shot 40% or better from deep. That's when he started taking more than one 3PA per game. His career 3P% is higher than Lebron's.

When you are taking less than one 3PA per game, it's not hard for the percentage to be skewed one way or the other.

The first year he did take more than one a game. He regressed over the next four years. That's all there is to it. He doesn't get points for less attempts when he never eclipsed .286 from year two through year five.

Yes, he's a better three point shooter than Lebron, but Ray Allen or Reggie Miller, he was not. That said, he hit some dagger threes in his career, no lie.

 

[HammerDown]

Yes, he's a better three point shooter than Lebron, but Ray Allen or Reggie Miller, he was not.

Dude, now you're reaching. This is about Bird vs. Lebron.

 

[Leroy Brown]

That's a fair take on Bird. As far as who is better, I'll say this.....if they are playing 1 on 1, I think LeBron takes certainly him. If they are playing Horse or 21, I think Bird takes James. On a team, it would depend on how it was built. Bird made everyone on the court better, he stretched the floor with his shooting, he was a GREAT passer, an underrated team defensive player, but above all, a cold blooded killer on the court, as clutch as anyone who ever played. Bird never had the questions LeBron has faced about disappearing in the Finals. I think if everything else were equal, a team with Bird would beat a team with Lebron

What's crazy about it though...it that it's those two and everyone else at that position. It's not even close. Melo, Gervin, Dr. J, Hondo, who else? You'd have to say Baylor and that's about it.

Maybe Hondo is on that level, as he is another great that if you didn't know about the clutch moments, you really wouldn't know how great he was...but I think James and Bird have a bit of a gap between them and the Dr. J's, Baylor's and Hondo's of the world...and then everyone else ain't even close, including Nique.

 

[Leroy Brown]

Dude, now you're reaching. This is about Bird vs. Lebron.

Put your facepalm away big guy, I was just pointing out that the guy had four absolutely shitty three point shooting years that didn't happen when the back was bad. He's still in the top five of non bigs, and that's saying something...in no particular order:

1.MJ
2. Lebron
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Dr. J (will be replaced by Durant pretty soon in the next four years or so)

 

[thunderc]

Lebron has a long ways to go to crack any top 5 in my opinion.