Should The NCAA Form a Separate Sub-Division For G5 Conferences?

[potzer25]

Yes. There should be 2-3 tiers, with championships in each tier and bowls that play across tiers. There should also be relegation and promotion.

 

[wazzu31]

The P5's should split off and go their own way, but your premise here is so badly flawed it's one of the dumbest things I've seen on this site recently.

UCF DIDN'T PLAY ANYONE.

Why do so many ONLY LOOK AT RECORD in a sport so badly unbalanced? UCF wasn't in BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PLAY ANYONE. I mean I'll say it again and it sill won't be understood.

They played exactly ONE team from a P5 and that was fucking Maryland for christs sake.

This is why an auto bid cannot happen, and thankfully will not happen.

They beat two ranked teams and both of them were G5's that were overrated as it was and neither were in the top 15, more or less top 5. Memphis and south florida are the entire resume they had. And on that you want them in the playoffs?

I honestly don't understand all this blathering on this site about UCF getting screwed. They literally played no one their entire season so why on earth would they deserve a playoff game? It defies logic. It really does.

Yes, G5's shouldn't be considered the same as P5's and should go their own way. This idea that P5's are the ones that are feasting off of them is pure bullshit though. The G5's need the P5's far more than the other way around. Even if they split off P5's will still play them. They currently play FCS teams as it is and they are in a different division. It won't change the schedules so why exactly would it hurt any P5 teams? It wouldn't. So what would the outcome be? Less G5's going to a bowl? Maybe you want none of them in a bowl. I'd be down with that.

Neither did UW last year and they got into the playoffs.

 

[Deep Creek]

Of course not. Why would I? I firmly believe it is very likely there would have been at least one G5 if this system was older and TCU was a likely candidate.

There are P5s not doing well either and they still have to keep spending our keep falling farther behind. It's not a sustainable model for a lot of schools, G5 and P5s not blue bloods.

It's my belief ESPN goes bankrupt and the whole system has to hit a reset and I don't think that's more than 5-6 years from starting. Cable is collapsing and ESPN has been in decline for several years now.

I agree 100%. Disney isn't going to put up with the current ESPN situation for very long.

If there are only about 30 schools in the black, that means about 1/2 of the P5s are also struggling financially in this arms race. I'm not sure of when, but I agree a "reset" will be in order at some point. Heard a discussion with one of the guys "in the know" about the media agreements with conferences/schools. His take was that the point we are talking about will be when the regional draw loses out to the national draw on a grander scale even more than it has been/is. Cord cutters, millenials are already moving the needle that way in his opinion.

Not everyone is as rabid a CFB fan as those of us on the hoop. We'll watch a Arizona-Oregon State after dark type Pac 12 game as well as a USC-Washington type...regardless of where we live. However, the more casual college FB fan in the midwest or east coast might not mind paying to see a USC-Washington game, but resents being forced to pay via a package a game like the Zona-Oregon State one. And the same type fan in the southwest or on the west coast, is willing to pay to watch Ohio State - Michigan but resents a structure that forces them to pay for a package that includes Purdue - Illinois.

National appeal > regional appeal an he seemed to say that is the reset. Again, have no idea when that reset will happen.

 

[Boise4Life]

Keep it the way it is. Four is perfect. It keeps the regular season games meaningful and allows the teams who are truly deserving to play for it all. If it stays the way it is, one of these days a Group of 5 will get in if things break right and they play the right schedule. The reason UCF was ranked where they were was the Power 5 team they beat was Maryland who sucked plus they had multiple very close calls against their conference opponents.

That was an awesome team though. They were explosive on offense and I don’t give a damn what anyone says, it is extremely difficult to run the table for any team no matter what your schedule is. Just look at some of the mediocre and in some cases shit teams that the top Power 5 teams lost to this year. I may be wrong here but I’m pretty sure the best coach in history with a roster that’s retarded every single year has only done it once.

So for the benefit of all of the rest of us fans of Group of 5 teams I say to UCF take your undefeated season. Take your Peach Bowl trophy. Take tremendous pride in the fact that you physically whipped the shit out of the SEC West champion, a team that handled the two teams playing for it all earlier this season. But please shut up with the it’s unfair, we’re the true national champions talk. It’s embarrassing. It’s a bad look for all of us and it makes the Group
of 5 seem small.

And lastly as a fan of a Group of 5 team, I’m 100% against splitting off into our own division. Why? So we can widen the gap even further than it already is? So we can get folks to care even less about us? That’s about as stupid of an idea as it gets.

 

[Red_Alert]

Keep it the way it is. Four is perfect. It keeps the regular season games meaningful and allows the teams who are truly deserving to play for it all. If it stays the way it is, one of these days a Group of 5 will get in if things break right and they play the right schedule. The reason UCF was ranked where they were was the Power 5 team they beat was Maryland who sucked plus they had multiple very close calls against their conference opponents.

That was an awesome team though. They were explosive on offense and I don’t give a damn what anyone says, it is extremely difficult to run the table for any team no matter what your schedule is. Just look at some of the mediocre and in some cases shit teams that the top Power 5 teams lost to this year. I may be wrong here but I’m pretty sure the best coach in history with a roster that’s retarded every single year has only done it once.

So for the benefit of all of the rest of us fans of Group of 5 teams I say to UCF take your undefeated season. Take your Peach Bowl trophy. Take tremendous pride in the fact that you physically whipped the shit out of the SEC West champion, a team that handled the two teams playing for it all earlier this season. But please shut up with the it’s unfair, we’re the true national champions talk. It’s embarrassing. It’s a bad look for all of us and it makes the Group
of 5 seem small.

And lastly as a fan of a Group of 5 team, I’m 100% against splitting off into our own division. Why? So we can widen the gap even further than it already is? So we can get folks to care even less about us? That’s about as stupid of an idea as it gets.

Eh?

 

[Boise4Life]

Eh?

Would you consider beating SMU, South Florida, and Memphis (in double OT) by seven points or less close? I would. I watched all three of those games and they were tight throughout. Navy played them close too.

 

[Rolltide94]

The already did, we call it G5. Do we need to come up with something new like we did with I-AA and I-A. Maybe FBNCS and FBNoNCS.

Seriously though...if you want a playoff spot, play a playoff schedule.

How do we know how good a win Memphis or USF is if their biggest wins are UCLA and Illinois.

Remember back in the day when USF climbed to #2 in the polls in Week 6. Here are the teams they beat to get there....Elon, #17 Auburn, North Carolina, #5 West Virginia, FAU and UCF.

Now imagine if UCF had beaten #17 Miami in Week 2, then beat Maryland in week 3(UNC was 4-8) this year and then followed that up a week later with a win over #5 USC...then ran the table in their AAC league play with wins over Memphis and USF. That team has an argument for the #4 spot.

There are plenty of G5 teams that played a good enough schedule to get playoff consideration this year, why should we reward the ones who didn't.

 

[Red_Alert]

Would you consider beating SMU, South Florida, and Memphis (in double OT) by seven points or less close? I would. I watched all three of those games and they were tight throughout. Navy played them close too.

There was no "or less".

@ SMU was by 7 points.
South Florida was by 7 points (ranked team)
Memphis was by 27 points. The rematch was by 7 points, but rematches always benefit the team that lost the first time.

Keep in mind those games were when the "Frost to Florida, A&M, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St, etc." were in full swing DAILY news.
UCF made it through that monumental distraction.

 

[Red_Alert]

How good was Memphis that UCF drubbed 40-13?

Memphis lost to Iowa St by 1 point in their bowl.

Iowa St beat Oklahoma in Norman and beat TCU.

 

[Rolltide94]

There was no "or less".

Memphis was by 27 points. The rematch was by 7 points, but rematches always benefit the team that lost the first time.

Actually this is usually only true in bowl games...where the losers are 15-7. In Conference Championship Rematches, the victor is 23-14.

Which I would say leads credence to the argument that you can't put much faith in games where the outcome doesn't mater(e.g. Bowl Games)

 

[Boise4Life]

@ SMU was by 7 points.
South Florida was by 7 points (ranked team)
Memphis was by 27 points. The rematch was by 7 points, but rematches always benefit the team that lost the first time.

Keep in mind those games were when the "Frost to Florida, A&M, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St, etc." were in full swing DAILY news.
UCF made it through that monumental distraction.

My point is they were close games. I know because I watched them. I watched a lot of UCF football this year. Look man I hear ya. That was a badass, highly entertaining football team and I don’t want to take anything away from them. I’m happy for their success. They deserved every bit of it and have a lot to be proud of. But if you’re a Group of 5 and you want in, you have to pretty much beat everyone fairly convincingly. More than that you have to play the schedule and while the AAC was the best Group of 5 conference this season, that’s not enough. And what’s certainly not enough is playing one Power 5 team that was complete shit. It’s not gonna move the needle enough to get you in.

 

[Rolltide94]

How good was Memphis that UCF drubbed 40-13?

Memphis lost to Iowa St by 1 point in their bowl.

Iowa St beat Oklahoma in Norman and beat TCU.

Yes, they did...but they also lost to Iowa, Texas, Ok St, West Virginia and Kansas St...who lost to Vandy...this transitive thing is a bitch isn't it.

 

[kburjr]

My point is they were close games. I know because I watched them. I watched a lot of UCF football this year. Look man I hear ya. That was a badass, highly entertaining football team and I don’t want to take anything away from them. I’m happy for their success. They deserved every bit of it and have a lot to be proud of. But if you’re a Group of 5 and you want in, you have to pretty much beat everyone fairly convincingly. More than that you have to play the schedule and while the AAC was the best Group of 5 conference this season, that’s not enough. And what’s certainly not enough is playing one Power 5 team that was complete shit. It’s not gonna move the needle enough to get you in.

Hell, if UCF had played Wisconsin's schedule, it wouldn't have been enough. Wisconsin didn't have a close game(7 or less margin of victory) and was begrudgingly given a #3 spot before the CCG

 

[4down20]

Hell, if UCF had played Wisconsin's schedule, it wouldn't have been enough. Wisconsin didn't have a close game(7 or less margin of victory) and was begrudgingly given a #3 spot before the CCG

If UCF played Wisconsin's schedule it would have been enough. That would be like saying if Wisconsin went undefeated they wouldn't have been in - but they certainly would have made it in if they had beat Ohio St.

 

[Justin Tyme]

Maryland, Illinois, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St, Syracuse, Baylor, Duke, Kansas, Nebraska, Rutgers, LSU, Oregon St, Stanford, Oregon, Texas Tech, Virginia, and Auburn are fine examples of a strong SOS.

These are fine examples of a strong SOS. These teams play other teams in the Big Ten, Big 12, Pac 12, ACC and SEC.
Hell, even Nebraska would have been bowl eligible if they could have played that lame-ass schedule UCF had.

 

[kburjr]

If UCF played Wisconsin's schedule it would have been enough. That would be like saying if Wisconsin went undefeated they wouldn't have been in - but they certainly would have made it in if they had beat Ohio St.

I guess I should have taken it a step farther and said had the same MOV results. If Wisconsin had 3 1 score victories, I am not so sure it would have been enough. SoS is that strong a factor.

 

[Boise4Life]

Hell, if UCF had played Wisconsin's schedule, it wouldn't have been enough. Wisconsin didn't have a close game(7 or less margin of victory) and was begrudgingly given a #3 spot before the CCG

Crazy to think how bad that division is and they didn’t have the non-conference games they needed or the proper Big 10 crossover games. Best win was over mediocre at best Michigan who beat absolutely nobody. It’s a shame. That was a really solid, disciplined football team. I was pulling for them in the conference championship game but the quarterback just killed them.

 

[4down20]

I guess I should have taken it a step farther and said had the same MOV results. If Wisconsin had 3 1 score victories, I am not so sure it would have been enough. SoS is that strong a factor.

Undefeated Wisconsin would have made it in regardless of MoV.

Wisconsin SoS was bad, but you would have had an Ohio St win in there which would have taken you over the top, no questions asked. Even if you had won every game on your schedule by only 1 pt.

 

[Boise4Life]

Don’t feel too bad for them, Red Alert. They’ll get what they deserve, a win in a New Year’s 6 Bowl and a likely top 5 end of year ranking. I can think of about 125 FBS teams from both the Group of 5 and Power 5 that would kill for that. And if you would have told their fan base this was coming their way two short years ago following an 0-12 season, they would have crapped down both legs.

 

[Red_Alert]

Actually this is usually only true in bowl games...where the losers are 15-7. In Conference Championship Rematches, the victor is 23-14.

Which I would say leads credence to the argument that you can't put much faith in games where the outcome doesn't mater(e.g. Bowl Games)

No.

Fresno St 28 Boise St 17 (regular season)
Boise St 17 Fresno St 14 (CCG) Winner Flipped

Auburn 40 Georgia 17 (regular season)
Georgia 28 Auburn 7 (CCG) Winner Flipped

UCF 40 Memphis 13 (regular season)
UCF 62 Memphis 55 (CCG) 20 pts closer.

Toledo 48 Akron 21 (regular season)
Toledo 45 Akron 28 (CCG) 10 pts closer

FAU 69 N. Texas 31 (regular season)
FAU 41 N. Texas 17 (CCG) 14 pts closer

PAC 12 USC/Stanford did not play regular season.
Big 10 OSU/Wisconsin did not play regular season.
ACC Clemson/Miami did not play regular season.
Sun Belt (No CCG)


Oklahoma 38 TCU 20 (regular season)
Oklahoma 41 TCU 17 (CCG) OU gained 6 pts.

So the Big 12 was the only rematch where the first time winner exceeded their first win.

Every other rematch the first time loser picked up double digits in the re-match.