Russell Wilson turned down 21 mil a year

[WizardHawk]

I know the media and fans are bent on this idea that it isn't likely something gets signed, but I still think a deal is likely to get done. It would just cost Wilson too much NOT to take a deal. That the media is fully bought into his working for 1.5m this year is proof his team is really really good and creating artificial leverage to get every last thing they can because to me it's smoke and mirrors.

To me this is just his camp doing what they can to push to the 11th hour and grab every last drop they can. I'd suspect the plan all along was to take a deal on Thur night before camp opens and they are still hoping the Hawks blink and add even something small to what's already there.

Listening to anything either side is leaking out and putting any kind of stock in it is foolish. This will play out in a few days and then there will be lots of time to comment on how stupid the organization was for giving this much of the cap space to any one player or how good/bad the deal is for Wilson.

Again, I'll be at least somewhat surprised if something isn't done and I'm expecting to not like it much as a fan.

Called it.

I really had NO doubt this was going to happen today. I said elsewhere that this was their plan all along. No matter what Seattle offered they weren't going to do anything until the 11th hour. No incentive to do so. Wait them out and get everything they can. And they did.

And just as I predicted above, I don't care much for the deal itself. He's being paid too much to keep this core group intact and happy. Obviously the team had to do it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[SonnyCID]

Called it.

I really had NO doubt this was going to happen today. I said elsewhere that this was their plan all along. No matter what Seattle offered they weren't going to do anything until the 11th hour. No incentive to do so. Wait them out and get everything they can. And they did.

And just as I predicted above, I don't care much for the deal itself. He's being paid too much to keep this core group intact and happy. Obviously the team had to do it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Any big contract makes it tougher to sign more players. But all in all, with a steadily rising cap, I'm pretty happy with the deal for a franchise QB. I also think it will be restructured in 2018.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

This a great deal on both sides and franchise QB's are hard to come by these days, just look at more then half the leagues QB's. Per John Clayton's report (I read this off an update from my phone), RW's deal only counts 5 mil against the cap leaving room for a Bobby Wagner deal to get done in the 9 to 10 mil range a year that would count 3.5 mil against the cap this year. It can be done but really no other wiggle room to sign anybody else.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Damn, meant to put this in the Hawks and Wilson done deal thread. I'm a dope!

 

[WizardHawk]

It's not that you can't win a SB with all these 'higest paid' or nearly highest paid players on your team, it's that each one makes it that much harder than what Seattle had in their first SB run.

They won the SB in 2013 (season, of course it was in 2014 ffs). How much did they pay Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Chancellor... in that season? FAR less than they do now.

Where did that money go? - Deepest defensive line in the league. That rotation was DEADLY and a HUGE factor in their ability to be fresh and tough in the post season. Depth was better all over the field really.

If all of those guys were still at those same pay levels they would be adding more veteran proven guys at depth positions. They can't now. That can't do anything but hurt them.

They go from having a group of guys they really hit the lottery with that were tearing up the league AND veteran depth, to veterans they have to pay well and mostly lower paid draft choices they hope they hit with.

That's a big difference. Huge.

Oh, and it's not 5m against the cap this year, it's 7m. Russell Wilson Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money | Over The Cap So there's not nearly as much room left on the cap as people might think.

That's why you really have to look at this as a 5 year deal, not a 4 year extension. His upfront money is 1/5 on this years cap so it's really not accurate to say he's still making the same rookie last year contract money. When you do that his average over the life of the contract goes down to 18m/yr.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

It's not that you can't win a SB with all these 'higest paid' or nearly highest paid players on your team, it's that each one makes it that much harder than what Seattle had in their first SB run.

They won the SB in 2013 (season, of course it was in 2014 ffs). How much did they pay Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Chancellor... in that season? FAR less than they do now.

Where did that money go? - Deepest defensive line in the league. That rotation was DEADLY and a HUGE factor in their ability to be fresh and tough in the post season. Depth was better all over the field really.

If all of those guys were still at those same pay levels they would be adding more veteran proven guys at depth positions. They can't now. That can't do anything but hurt them.

They go from having a group of guys they really hit the lottery with that were tearing up the league AND veteran depth, to veterans they have to pay well and mostly lower paid draft choices they hope they hit with.

That's a big difference. Huge.

Oh, and it's not 5m against the cap this year, it's 7m. Russell Wilson Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money | Over The Cap So there's not nearly as much room left on the cap as people might think.

That's why you really have to look at this as a 5 year deal, not a 4 year extension. His upfront money is 1/5 on this years cap so it's really not accurate to say he's still making the same rookie last year contract money. When you do that his average over the life of the contract goes down to 18m/yr.

This is the effects of a very successful team. You have to pay your core players to stay contenders even if it means a little less depth at various positions. You don't let these guys walk in their prime to other teams and have to start over with the unknown if the new drafted players can play at the same high level.

As for the cap, that was reported early Friday morning so I'm not surprised it changed throughout the day.

 

[WizardHawk]

This is the effects of a very successful team. You have to pay your core players to stay contenders even if it means a little less depth at various positions. You don't let these guys walk in their prime to other teams and have to start over with the unknown if the new drafted players can play at the same high level.

As for the cap, that was reported early Friday morning so I'm not surprised it changed throughout the day.

Never suggested you let them walk. I do wish the deal for Wilson was a bit lower, but I don't blame the team for paying him. All I was saying is every dollar you spend on those guys is a dollar less you have to improve depth.

This team was incredibly fortunate to have so many great young players under weak ass rookie contracts over that run from 2012/2013 up through winning the SB. It was the perfect storm.

Their formula moving forward for continuing to win will be more like the GB, NE, and Dallas type teams where you have killer veteran guys all over, but could have trouble when/if key players go down compared to what we had in 13.

That doesn't mean you can't win another one, but the road gets tougher. You have less margin for error (In terms of injuries mostly).

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Never suggested you let them walk. I do wish the deal for Wilson was a bit lower, but I don't blame the team for paying him. All I was saying is every dollar you spend on those guys is a dollar less you have to improve depth.

This team was incredibly fortunate to have so many great young players under weak ass rookie contracts over that run from 2012/2013 up through winning the SB. It was the perfect storm.

Their formula moving forward for continuing to win will be more like the GB, NE, and Dallas type teams where you have killer veteran guys all over, but could have trouble when/if key players go down compared to what we had in 13.

That doesn't mean you can't win another one, but the road gets tougher. You have less margin for error (In terms of injuries mostly).

I do agree with you Wiz. The margin of error is tight but JS/PC have been able to find some good depth in the draft. No reason to worry unless they start hitting blanks.

 

[WizardHawk]

Wouldn't say I'm worried. Just pointing out that the odds get tougher from here on out.

JS/PC did have a couple of bad ass draft classes early on, but they haven't hit on every class. They've had a few busts.

What they excel at is finding and developing defensive talent and adjusting their schemes around their strengths and weaknesses. Offense? Not so much. The line has been a joke for a very long time and their draft picks up there haven't yet to do justice to what we see on defense. Even Michael might prove to be a bust. Sure not looking like a lynch replacement.

They can still win the SB with these issues, but the road is harder.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I do agree the O-line has been a blemish on their record, but I thought the Micheals pick was a good one at the time. Who knew he would turn into a bust. For the next few years, the draft will be very interesting for us fans.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Russell Wilson's monster deal is the latest evidence that NFL contracts are a joke - Yahoo Sports

After months of speculation about a new contract, Russell Wilson and the Seattle Seahawks reached an agreement just before Friday's training-camp deadline on a new four-year, $87.6 million contract extension.

When we compare the contract with those signed by other quarterbacks in recent years, Wilson's new deal compares quite favorably. The $61.5 million guaranteed against injury is the most ever, the $21.9 million average salary during the extension is second only to Aaron Rodgers, and the $31 million signing bonus tied with Ben Roethlisberger's for the most among all players in the past two years.

It sounds great, right? Those are big numbers. When we look a little closer, however, it is clear that Wilson's new contract is not the game changer many were expecting.

Here is how Wilson's deal breaks down year-by-year, with the signing bonus paid now and the extension technically starting in 2016 (via Ian Rapoport and Spotrac):

2015 — $31.7 million ($31 million signing bonus, $700,000 salary) fully guaranteed at signing.
2016 — $12.3 million, becomes guaranteed if still on the team February 26.
2017 — $12.6 million, becomes guaranteed if still on the team on the fifth day of the 2017 waiver period.
2018 — $15.5 million, $4.9 million becomes guaranteed if still on the team on the fifth day of the 2017 waiver period.
2019 — $17 million, not guaranteed.

To put it another way. While most in the media reported this as a four-year, $87.6 million contract, here is how we would report it in just about any other sport:

Russell Wilson's new deal is really a ONE-YEAR, $31.7 MILLION CONTRACT WITH FOUR YEARS OF TEAM OPTIONS.

This contract is at the good end of NFL deals, but it didn't really change much. That is, the Seahawks gave Wilson a lot of money (by NFL standards), but they still have all the control.

Compare Wilson's deal with that signed by Rick Porcello of the Boston Red Sox before the 2015 season. Like Wilson, Porcello was still under team control for the 2015 season, with his only leverage being that his salary could be determined by an arbitrator.

Porcello avoided arbitration and signed a one-year contract for 2015 worth $12.5 million. Just as the season started, he signed an extension that was similar to Wilson's, a four-year, $82.5 million contract to begin in 2016. The big difference being that Porcello's deal was fully guaranteed the moment he signed it.

The other big difference is that Porcello is not nearly as valuable as Wilson. We can argue about where Wilson ranks among today's quarterbacks — Is he elite? Is he in the top five? — but what cannot be dismissed is that he is one of the 10 or 15 most important players in the NFL. He plays the single most important position, he plays it better than most, and he has played that position for one of the most successful teams of the past five years. Porcello is a fine player, but he is not even one of the 10 or 15 most important players in his division.

And yet, despite that value, the Seahawks still wouldn't fully guarantee Wilson's salary beyond the first year. That's a joke.

Sure, one can make a case that the Seahawks will not cut Wilson and the worst that will happen is he renegotiates the deal in a couple of years. But at the same time, how secure does Colin Kaepernick feel with the huge, nonguaranteed contract he signed?


So what do you make of this?

 

[Tech_God]

Russell Wilson's monster deal is the latest evidence that NFL contracts are a joke - Yahoo Sports

After months of speculation about a new contract, Russell Wilson and the Seattle Seahawks reached an agreement just before Friday's training-camp deadline on a new four-year, $87.6 million contract extension.

When we compare the contract with those signed by other quarterbacks in recent years, Wilson's new deal compares quite favorably. The $61.5 million guaranteed against injury is the most ever, the $21.9 million average salary during the extension is second only to Aaron Rodgers, and the $31 million signing bonus tied with Ben Roethlisberger's for the most among all players in the past two years.

It sounds great, right? Those are big numbers. When we look a little closer, however, it is clear that Wilson's new contract is not the game changer many were expecting.

Here is how Wilson's deal breaks down year-by-year, with the signing bonus paid now and the extension technically starting in 2016 (via Ian Rapoport and Spotrac):

2015 — $31.7 million ($31 million signing bonus, $700,000 salary) fully guaranteed at signing.
2016 — $12.3 million, becomes guaranteed if still on the team February 26.
2017 — $12.6 million, becomes guaranteed if still on the team on the fifth day of the 2017 waiver period.
2018 — $15.5 million, $4.9 million becomes guaranteed if still on the team on the fifth day of the 2017 waiver period.
2019 — $17 million, not guaranteed.

To put it another way. While most in the media reported this as a four-year, $87.6 million contract, here is how we would report it in just about any other sport:

Russell Wilson's new deal is really a ONE-YEAR, $31.7 MILLION CONTRACT WITH FOUR YEARS OF TEAM OPTIONS.

This contract is at the good end of NFL deals, but it didn't really change much. That is, the Seahawks gave Wilson a lot of money (by NFL standards), but they still have all the control.

Compare Wilson's deal with that signed by Rick Porcello of the Boston Red Sox before the 2015 season. Like Wilson, Porcello was still under team control for the 2015 season, with his only leverage being that his salary could be determined by an arbitrator.

Porcello avoided arbitration and signed a one-year contract for 2015 worth $12.5 million. Just as the season started, he signed an extension that was similar to Wilson's, a four-year, $82.5 million contract to begin in 2016. The big difference being that Porcello's deal was fully guaranteed the moment he signed it.

The other big difference is that Porcello is not nearly as valuable as Wilson. We can argue about where Wilson ranks among today's quarterbacks — Is he elite? Is he in the top five? — but what cannot be dismissed is that he is one of the 10 or 15 most important players in the NFL. He plays the single most important position, he plays it better than most, and he has played that position for one of the most successful teams of the past five years. Porcello is a fine player, but he is not even one of the 10 or 15 most important players in his division.

And yet, despite that value, the Seahawks still wouldn't fully guarantee Wilson's salary beyond the first year. That's a joke.

Sure, one can make a case that the Seahawks will not cut Wilson and the worst that will happen is he renegotiates the deal in a couple of years. But at the same time, how secure does Colin Kaepernick feel with the huge, nonguaranteed contract he signed?


So what do you make of this?

Meh....

This is how the NFL does business. Think of it as insurance if (God forbid) if Wilson get'a a career ending injury this season. He gets $31 million and the Seahawks can still spend the money to keep funding a.competitive.team.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Actually I don't thing this is the norm for QBs. At the end, I don't think it will matter because I fully expect him to be the Seahawks QBs for a long time.

 

[MrS]

guaranteed contracts would ruin the NFL. the person that wrote that article is a guaranteed idiot.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

guaranteed contracts would ruin the NFL. the person that wrote that article is a guaranteed idiot.

Non guarantee contracts is what I love about the NFL, may it never change. However over time it seems like the NFL is creeping in that direction, nice to know this contract holds the line.

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

Non guarantee contracts is what I love about the NFL, may it never change. However over time it seems like the NFL is creeping in that direction, nice to know this contract holds the line.

And that is why I can't get angry at bennit for wanting a new deal. Yes he just signed a new contract a year or two ago but if the nfl want's you gone your gone and you see none of it. To me every contract is a one year deal and added in the new rookie contracts where if you out out perform your rookie slot, aka Wilson, well do bad have to wait three years. Thus get whatever money you can I say, and hope Bennit can get what he wants.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

And that is why I can't get angry at bennit for wanting a new deal. Yes he just signed a new contract a year or two ago but if the nfl want's you gone your gone and you see none of it. To me every contract is a one year deal and added in the new rookie contracts where if you out out perform your rookie slot, aka Wilson, well do bad have to wait three years. Thus get whatever money you can I say, and hope Bennit can get what he wants.

Not me. When the Seahawks signed him to that contract, they expected excellent results and he delivered, but he's paid very well verus his peers IMO, unlike Kam who is actually underpaid some.

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

Not me. When the Seahawks signed him to that contract, they expected excellent results and he delivered, but he's paid very well verus his peers IMO, unlike Kam who is actually underpaid some.

So do you believe that if a player who just signed a new contract where to exceed his new contract, (production vs actual pay or feels his production is out performing his current pay scale which I think Bennit feels) that he should just be happy with his deal, where if the situation was reversed the team would/could ask for him to restructure his contract or out right cut him due to injure or poor performance. Because teams have so much power including adding fines for hold outs, I find myself unable to get mad at him for wanting more money even though he has three years left on his current contract. (Now I want him here as a fan to create a team unity, bonding, ect, and many I want Seattle to have the best players in order to win)

 

[Uhsplit]

Actually I don't thing this is the norm for QBs. At the end, I don't think it will matter because I fully expect him to be the Seahawks QBs for a long time.

Yes, for a minimum of 5 more years.

 

[Uhsplit]

And that is why I can't get angry at bennit for wanting a new deal. Yes he just signed a new contract a year or two ago but if the nfl want's you gone your gone and you see none of it. To me every contract is a one year deal and added in the new rookie contracts where if you out out perform your rookie slot, aka Wilson, well do bad have to wait three years. Thus get whatever money you can I say, and hope Bennit can get what he wants.

I have to disagree with most of your post.

Yes he just signed a new contract a year or two ago but if the nfl want's you gone your gone and you see none of it.
A solid player would easily find a job if his team cut him. If he was overpaid by his current employer he will quickly find a new employer at a different wage scale.
and hope Bennit can get what he wants.
A team needs fiscal restraint when having to live under a cap. One thing I have learned is ALL players want more money.