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Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

j_y19

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VT, you still don't get it. KC did not set the market value at $58M, the FO did. As soon as they tagged him and then stated they could still tag him again next year ( brilliant move, by the way) they announced to the world, and KC's agent, that he was worth that amount to them. So why would he accept less?
 

Sleepy T

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The price has been $58M from the moment the Redskins decided to tag him.

When will the haters realize that our other options are

1. Pay Grapalo or McCarron $25M a year for a hell of alot less being accomplished.
2. Pay the price in draft picks and HOPE like hell they finally get it right and find that ever so elusive Elite QB.

If it's fair to bust our balls and accuse we "haters" of secretly crying in our pillow because the RG3 experiment didn't work out OR that we secretly hope he fails so we can pray that a QB falls to us (such bullshit).

THEN

It is fair to accuse you folks of being blind homers who are willing to sign this guy at all costs.

Dab is right. If KC and/or his camp is throwing out this crybaby bullcrap "Well...if it was RG3 he would have gotten signed..." that's some crybaby bullshit Shark and you know it. I can't believe he (or his camp) would even put that out there.
 

Sleepy T

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VT, you still don't get it. KC did not set the market value at $58M, the FO did. As soon as they tagged him and then stated they could still tag him again next year ( brilliant move, by the way) they announced to the world, and KC's agent, that he was worth that amount to them. So why would he accept less?

Whatever guys! I get it. The FO screwed up. We rolled the dice and lost. So they should pay for it forever. He was disrespected!

Just throw $60-70 mill FG at the fuckin titty baby. Then we will see what the spin doctors say when he says no.
 

Sharkinva

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If it's fair to bust our balls and accuse we "haters" of secretly crying in our pillow because the RG3 experiment didn't work out OR that we secretly hope he fails so we can pray that a QB falls to us (such bullshit).

THEN

It is fair to accuse you folks of being blind homers who are willing to sign this guy at all costs.

Dab is right. If KC and/or his camp is throwing out this crybaby bullcrap "Well...if it was RG3 he would have gotten signed..." that's some crybaby bullshit Shark and you know it. I can't believe he (or his camp) would even put that out there.


Just because its the truth does not make it some crybaby bullshit as you put it. Every one on the planet knows had RG3 had two years in a row like Kirk, this would not be an issue. Kirk and his agent are looking at the FACT that Dan, Bruce and the fan base were willing to hang onto Griffin at all costs even when it was apparent he was not improving. The FACT that Dan and Bruce have been willing to pay for guys they like be it from within the team, or even other teams free agents. Yet Kirk actually performed, and they move the goal posts.
 

Sharkinva

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Whatever guys! I get it. The FO screwed up. We rolled the dice and lost. So they should pay for it forever. He was disrespected!

Just throw $60-70 mill FG at the fuckin titty baby. Then we will see what the spin doctors say when he says no.


Lets see if they throw anything more than the $27M guaranteed which was their last "offer" then see where it gets them.
 

j_y19

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Whatever guys! I get it. The FO screwed up. We rolled the dice and lost. So they should pay for it forever. He was disrespected!

Just throw $60-70 mill FG at the fuckin titty baby. Then we will see what the spin doctors say when he says no.
And I will say this again. IF he says no, its not because of the money.

The FO did screw up. And he has been disrespected. I sure as hell wouldn't work for someone that disrespected me. They say the right things in the public, but they have yet to produce an offer that he SHOULD accept. If you boss kept telling you that you are doing great work, but every time you want to talk about you future with the company, he blows you off, wouldn't you eventually come to the conclusion that he was just giving you lip service and would replace you as soon as he can find a younger, cheaper guy?
 

j_y19

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If it's fair to bust our balls and accuse we "haters" of secretly crying in our pillow because the RG3 experiment didn't work out OR that we secretly hope he fails so we can pray that a QB falls to us (such bullshit).

THEN

It is fair to accuse you folks of being blind homers who are willing to sign this guy at all costs.

Dab is right. If KC and/or his camp is throwing out this crybaby bullcrap "Well...if it was RG3 he would have gotten signed..." that's some crybaby bullshit Shark and you know it. I can't believe he (or his camp) would even put that out there.
Once again you are labeling KC with something that there is no proof of. Where has it been said by KC or his agent that they brought up the RG3 reference? Keim speculates that it could be a negotiating position, he never said he heard they say it. But sure enough, you state that he or his camp put that out there.

Dude, just admit it, you have some deep rooted hate for the guy. Why, I have no idea.
 

Sharkinva

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And I will say this again. IF he says no, its not because of the money.

The FO did screw up. And he has been disrespected. I sure as hell wouldn't work for someone that disrespected me. They say the right things in the public, but they have yet to produce an offer that he SHOULD accept. If you boss kept telling you that you are doing great work, but every time you want to talk about you future with the company, he blows you off, wouldn't you eventually come to the conclusion that he was just giving you lip service and would replace you as soon as he can find a younger, cheaper guy?


Younger, cheaper and you left out more exciting.
 

Sportster 72

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Phrases like titty baby and dick just do not make your cause seem like it has any strength other than dislike. It is fine if you don't like him. I still don't know anyone but you who keeps throwing this $70+ around. :noidea:
 

Sharkinva

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Phrases like titty baby and dick just do not make your cause seem like it has any strength other than dislike. It is fine if you don't like him. I still don't know anyone but you who keeps throwing this $70+ around. :noidea:


Yea ya do..

Dean

Coach

The money has just become the rallying cry on why we should not sign him long term.
 

chillerdab

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You have a post about passing judgement while passing judgement on both Kirk and Shark. :scratch:

Maybe if you have a low post count it is okay to do that :noidea:

edit.
 
Last edited:

chillerdab

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j_y, I explained my position previously, in this thread or another.

If you claim, as KC does, that "it isn't about the money, it's about Jesus showing him the way," but then turn down a $16million contract because you wanted a $20million contract, then it is clearly NOT about Jesus - it's about the money.

Yes, the front office totally bungled the whole KC situation. But just because KC CAN rake the redskins over the coals for an absolutely insane offer for a qb who is streaky, lost his two 1,000 yd wr's, and is in a system designed for him, doesn't mean that he should.

To me, playing the franchise tags to your advantage to get the maximum amount of money KC possibly could, all the while publicly announcing that it's Jesus at the wheel (not Ben Franklin), as opposed to "finding a happy medium," say for your new baby and wife, in the city where you've lived for 5 years or so, in a town with some of the best fans in the NFL who will worship you if you play well, screams "I'M BEING A DICK."

The whole "but the front office hasn't offered a good contract..... but if RG3 posted those numbers..... but I (he) didn't CHOOSE to be tagged..." sound like crappy excuses from an immature hypocrite.
 

Sharkinva

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j_y, I explained my position previously, in this thread or another.

If you claim, as KC does, that "it isn't about the money, it's about Jesus showing him the way," but then turn down a $16million contract because you wanted a $20million contract, then it is clearly NOT about Jesus - it's about the money.

Yes, the front office totally bungled the whole KC situation. But just because KC CAN rake the redskins over the coals for an absolutely insane offer for a qb who is streaky, lost his two 1,000 yd wr's, and is in a system designed for him, doesn't mean that he should.

To me, playing the franchise tags to your advantage to get the maximum amount of money KC possibly could, all the while publicly announcing that it's Jesus at the wheel (not Ben Franklin), as opposed to "finding a happy medium," say for your new baby and wife, in the city where you've lived for 5 years or so, in a town with some of the best fans in the NFL who will worship you if you play well, screams "I'M BEING A DICK."

The whole "but the front office hasn't offered a good contract..... but if RG3 posted those numbers..... but I (he) didn't CHOOSE to be tagged..." sound like crappy excuses from an immature hypocrite.


You know boss, if you TOTALLY ignored the history of this team, and more to the point this owner, you might have a valid unbiased point.

But lets recap....

Dan has... Fired a coach in the middle of the season and made him pay for his own flight home from an away game (Norv Turner)

Shafted one of his prized players out of contract money, to the point said player actually had to BUY his way out of his contract when Dan was done with him (Arrington)

Allowed his team President to FIRE the GM 2 years into a 4 year deal because they could not agree on the current QB (SMGM)

And those are just the high lights.

Fuck I dont even believe, and I would be talking to Jesus on the daily if I had to depend on Dan and Bruce dealing straight up on what could be my only REAL NFL starting QB contract.
 

Buffalo_Nickel_1

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we wont know monday till 3.50 pm wont get done till then .deadline is 4pm rumers will start to fly weds thurs friday etc etc hint i seen a tweet that said kirk is going to be on the radio monday night at 6pm 106 the fan
 

j_y19

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j_y, I explained my position previously, in this thread or another.

If you claim, as KC does, that "it isn't about the money, it's about Jesus showing him the way," but then turn down a $16million contract because you wanted a $20million contract, then it is clearly NOT about Jesus - it's about the money.

Yes, the front office totally bungled the whole KC situation. But just because KC CAN rake the redskins over the coals for an absolutely insane offer for a qb who is streaky, lost his two 1,000 yd wr's, and is in a system designed for him, doesn't mean that he should.

To me, playing the franchise tags to your advantage to get the maximum amount of money KC possibly could, all the while publicly announcing that it's Jesus at the wheel (not Ben Franklin), as opposed to "finding a happy medium," say for your new baby and wife, in the city where you've lived for 5 years or so, in a town with some of the best fans in the NFL who will worship you if you play well, screams "I'M BEING A DICK."

The whole "but the front office hasn't offered a good contract..... but if RG3 posted those numbers..... but I (he) didn't CHOOSE to be tagged..." sound like crappy excuses from an immature hypocrite.
WOW. Where do I start. First, where did KC actually say "it isn't about the money, it's about Jesus showing him the way,"? You seem to have a real butt hurt over his professed christianity. You have alluded to it a couple of times. While you may be a non believer (I am probably closer to you in this view than him) I don't believe there is anything that precludes a follower of Jesus also wanting to maximize his income. But I still would like to see the actual quote you reference above, because I can't find it. Second, why is KC raking the redskins over the coals? What exactly has he done to rake them over the coals? What demands has he made, factually? Oh, and BTW, do you think that the FO would bat an eye and cut KC in a new york minute if his play dropped off or they could find a cheaper replacement? Why wouldn't you want to protect yourself contractually for as much as you can because surely the team is trying to protect themselves as much as they can, right? Why aren't you calling them a dick??
Finally, he turned down a $16M contract because dumbass bruce allen already stated to the world that he would tag him at $20M if they couldn't sign him. Seriously, you can't understand that nuance?

Lets try this. Lets say you are putting a house on the market to sell and you list in at $100K. A buyer comes in and loves the house and he tells you that he is going to buy it, can afford,and will pay the asking price, but really only wants to spend $80K. SO he sends an offer of $80K over but you know he will pay the $100K if you reject the offer. What do you do? Feel benevolent and forego the $20K as a goodwill gesture? Fuck no. You reject it as soon as its put in front of you, as would all of us, even those that live their lives under the principles of Christianity, Islam, whatever.

One other thing.....where did KC or his agent ever utter what you have tagged them to say above..."but the front office hasn't offered a good contract..... but if RG3 posted those numbers..... but I (he) didn't CHOOSE to be tagged..." making him an immature hypocrite? I'll tell you to save you time. They didn't. Those are all opinions of posters here. None of those "crappy excuses" ever came from KC or his camp. Once again, he is being tagged with something that he has not done. Oh, but by the way, two of those crappy excuses are actually facts and bone headed moves by the FO that has us in this position we are today.
 

j_y19

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By Jerry Brewer Columnist July 7 at 2:29 PM

The future of Kirk Cousins — the cloud that hovers over every DMV day — returns now to burden a week of your summer. There are only a handful of business days left until the July 17 franchise tag deadline. If the wishy-washy Washington Redskins don’t reach an agreement with Cousins on a long-term contract by then, he’ll make $23.9 million next season playing on that tag, and then, no matter how anyone in Ashburn spins it, we’ll return to our regularly scheduled hell.

At the start of this long and embarrassingly non-committal nightmare, the debate was about Cousins’s worth. The situation was crazy: A player who had flopped during the first nine sporadic starts of his NFL career suddenly turned into a starter putting up ridiculous numbers. It was hard to determine his value. More than a year later, there’s greater clarity, but Cousins has been so productive and the franchise has managed the situation so poorly that a multiyear contract would require giving Cousins record-setting money.

The quarterback isn’t the one under heavy scrutiny anymore. The franchise is, again. Of most importance now is how much Washington values stability. Considering Daniel Snyder’s history as owner, stability is about as important as rapport with the media. But Washington has spent more than two years rebuilding with a focus on drafting, developing and rewarding its own players. Now the team has a very good option at quarterback, one who thrives in Coach Jay Gruden’s offensive system, but it is dangerously close to breaking from that philosophy and losing a homegrown talent at the most difficult and essential position in team sports.

[Sally Jenkins: Kirk Cousins could make a difference for all NFL players, if he’s willing to]

The next week is crucial to solidifying or destroying Washington’s future. Without a new contract, this will be Cousins’s final season here, assuming the franchise doesn’t do anything more financially absurd than its current double-franchise tag, pay-as-you-go strategy. Placing a third franchise tag on Cousins would cost more than $34 million. Washington could also use the transition tag, which provides less protection but would still allow the franchise the right to match another team’s offer for Cousins. But that would cost about $28 million next season if no deal materializes.

Two franchise tags already will have cost Washington nearly $44 million. Another year of this nonsense would mean doling out $72 million or $78 million, depending on which tag is used.

Last summer, if Washington had negotiated harder and not stood firm on a lowball offer of about $16 million per season, it could have signed Cousins for something in the neighborhood of $44 million guaranteed.

With that reasonable guarantee, it would have been a four-year contract with a full value averaging between $18-19 million per season. That’s what multiple sources believe would have been a deal-maker for Cousins and agent Mike McCartney. Washington wanted to see more because, at that time, Cousins had one good season — which concluded with a second-half statistical explosion — on his résumé. It’s understandable. I even agreed with the decision. But the franchise tag shouldn’t have been reason to hold firm to an unrealistic offer. The offers needed to improve, and the conversations needed to advance. If nothing else, it would have been progress toward the current wave of negotiations.

[Will Doug Williams have the powers to shape the Redskins? ‘I’ve never been a yes guy.’]

To be fair, there are some aspects to Cousins’s performance and the league’s rising quarterback salaries that make this complicated and somewhat unprecedented. Cousins has thrown for an incredible 9,083 yards and 54 touchdowns with an excellent 99.3 passer rating the past two seasons combined. He threw for 4,917 yards last season, the 15th-most in NFL history. It’s difficult to make sense of such productivity out of a player who looked like a classic backup his first three seasons. It’s even more difficult to assess because, despite those elite numbers, Cousins is still considered a second-tier NFL quarterback at best.

But the market for quarterbacks continues to explode. Cousins may not be elite, but because Washington is attempting to pay him right now, he wants a fair chunk of a salary cap that keeps growing, not to be slotted in some imaginary salary pecking order with quarterbacks who signed their deals years ago. It’s unfortunate that Cousins couldn’t have exploded earlier; it would have made this process much easier. Then again, the franchise would have been too obsessed with Robert Griffin III to notice any earlier.

There is a Griffin hangover to consider. Washington has yet to appreciate fully how difficult it was for Cousins to emerge from Griffin’s shadow and how the past has subtle influences on the present. Cousins is humble and soft-spoken, but he has an ego. He wants to be respected as the franchise quarterback he has become, not left to feel like he’s a good player that Washington created in a lab.

Can that be accomplished after two franchise tags and two offseasons of fruitless contract negotiations? I’m doubtful. Washington keeps sending the message that it takes two sides to complete a deal. The implication is that Washington fears Cousins doesn’t want to be here, especially with Kyle Shanahan now in San Francisco. If that’s the case, it’s hard to blame him because most franchises wouldn’t have taken this long to present an offer truly worth contemplating.

[Mailbag: What kind of numbers should the Redskins be throwing at Kirk Cousins?]

Monday Morning Post Up

All the NBA news and commentary you need, once a week.



This is the week for Washington to present its best offer. With the deadline as a pressure point, both sides should talk numbers for the first time in months. They’ve had amicable conversations and frequent communication, but new figures haven’t been put on the table in a while. In a sense, Washington is acting like the teenager who flirts but is afraid to ask the pretty girl out for fear of rejection. He should have asked her out before everyone realized how attractive she is.

There’s little time left now. The big dance is almost here. The franchise must equip Eric Schaffer, the senior vice president who is skilled at negotiating and structuring contracts, with the power to give Cousins something to ponder.

If Washington doesn’t offer a deal that includes about $58 million at signing (the equivalent of this year’s and next year’s franchise tags) and about $70-$80 million guaranteed overall, then the question of where Cousins wants to play is moot because the team that drafted him doesn’t really want to consummate a deal. It would prefer to have one strange, lame-duck season and then receive compensation to move on to an uncertain future. For all the good work Washington has done to slowly build a competitive roster, its direction would be in doubt without the quarterback around which it built.

Many would say instability is inevitable. Many would say instability is Washington’s permanent residence. But many would happily eat crow if given the opportunity.

The franchise is now on the clock to alter perception — or awaken rancor and chaos.

the one phrase , dean and others , in this piece is it" isnt the player who is under scrutiny it is the franchise is "

it also says no offers have been made , another mantra being floated out there , if no fair offer is made then its the team 's FO who is screwing this up

And if no offer has been made, then no offer has been rejected, right? So how can one come to a conclusion that KC is greedy, a dick, or whatever? What has he done, factually, to earn those claims?

He may eventually get an offer that he should accept (I doubt it), and he may reject it. At that point, one can justify him being a dick (greedy is another issue, if he rejects a fair deal, its not because of the money). But until that time, it is the FO that has fucked this situation up royally.
 

SoCalWizFan

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Really hard to tell where this actually stands at this time. I think that it is probably naïve to have believed that this would have been resolved well ahead of the deadline. There is also precious little info available via the media (as it should be). The majority of the minimal amt of reports come from these annoying 49ers outlets who are hopeful that Cousins lands in SF (w/ no basis to their hopes & certainly no actual comments from Cousins to warrant these rumors).

Will be an interesting week.
 

chillerdab

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Why would anybody be butt hurt over somebody else's Christianity? That's just stupid. I don't give a crap if KC worships Jesus, Buddha, Satan, or Krispy Kreme. He's a hypocrite, like many other who use their religion as an excuse to do whatever the frack they want to do.

Here's the quote, and the link to the source:

With deadline approaching, Kirk Cousins discusses contract talks

“If I’m going to build my life based on money shame on me,” Cousins said. “That’s not where I draw my security from, never should be. My parents didn’t raise me that way. I’m not going to make it about money before franchise tags and I’m not going to make it about money now. I’m going to play, and trust the Lord to provide, protect and to lead. He’ll do what he wants to do regardless of my desires or my plans. He’s going to accomplish his purposes, I’m going to trust him and put my security there and let that lead wherever it leads.”

You have no idea if the front office offered a good contract two years ago, last year, or this year. Neither do I.
You have no idea if KC definitely wants to play here, may want to play here, is leaning towards not playing here, or definitely doesn't want to play here, and neither do I.
You have no idea of the actual timing of contract offers given between the redskins and KC two years ago, last year, or this year, and neither do I. Saying "he turned down a $16M contract because dumbass bruce allen already stated to the world that he would tag him at $20M if they couldn't sign him" doesn't really simply make it any truer.

Furthermore, if KC isn't building his life based on money (shame on him), then why would it matter if Bruce Allen did say he'd tag KC if he doesn't sign for $16 million?

We do have KC on record saying "I'm not going to make it about money before franchise tags, and I'm not going to make it about money now." That, given his history, seems to be categorically false.

Anyway, I'm pretty much done with this topic. Agree to disagree, I guess.
 

j_y19

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Why would anybody be butt hurt over somebody else's Christianity? That's just stupid. I don't give a crap if KC worships Jesus, Buddha, Satan, or Krispy Kreme. He's a hypocrite, like many other who use their religion as an excuse to do whatever the frack they want to do.

Here's the quote, and the link to the source:

With deadline approaching, Kirk Cousins discusses contract talks

“If I’m going to build my life based on money shame on me,” Cousins said. “That’s not where I draw my security from, never should be. My parents didn’t raise me that way. I’m not going to make it about money before franchise tags and I’m not going to make it about money now. I’m going to play, and trust the Lord to provide, protect and to lead. He’ll do what he wants to do regardless of my desires or my plans. He’s going to accomplish his purposes, I’m going to trust him and put my security there and let that lead wherever it leads.”

You have no idea if the front office offered a good contract two years ago, last year, or this year. Neither do I.
You have no idea if KC definitely wants to play here, may want to play here, is leaning towards not playing here, or definitely doesn't want to play here, and neither do I.
You have no idea of the actual timing of contract offers given between the redskins and KC two years ago, last year, or this year, and neither do I. Saying "he turned down a $16M contract because dumbass bruce allen already stated to the world that he would tag him at $20M if they couldn't sign him" doesn't really simply make it any truer.

Furthermore, if KC isn't building his life based on money (shame on him), then why would it matter if Bruce Allen did say he'd tag KC if he doesn't sign for $16 million?

We do have KC on record saying "I'm not going to make it about money before franchise tags, and I'm not going to make it about money now." That, given his history, seems to be categorically false.

Anyway, I'm pretty much done with this topic. Agree to disagree, I guess.
Ok. So I did see that quote. What has he done, factually, that is hypocritical to that statement? Oh, and we do .have references to the timing of offers, counter offers, and statements for both 2015 and 2016. I would agree that we really don't know what has transpired this year. I would also agree that neither of us really know what KC will do if an offer materializes. Which is why I question you calling him a dick or a hypocrite at this stage.
 

gkekoa

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People call those of faith hypocrites all the time to make themselves feel better. They simply don't understand anything about faith.
 
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