Nick Bosa... Can we have a realistic discussion?

[Stakesarehigh]

His stats are not #1 pick worthy. Some might argue that his 2018 stats are skewed because of injury.
My response... EXACTLY!

I admittedly am not a college expert, so can somebody please explain why he is the draft darling this year?

I really, really, really want the Cards to trade out of the # 1 position.

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This was going to be the year he broke out but the OSU defensive line was deep his first two years and they heavily rotated. I do agree it's a bad look he has yet to really show he can survive the day to day grind the NFL will test him with.

 

[navamind]

16 TFL in a season is pretty awesome.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

'90s. Dan Wilkinson in 1994. Steve Emtman in 1992 and Russell Maryland in 1991 before that.

But Suh was the first non-QB taken in 2010. And DT has been the 2nd or 3rd non-QB taken in a lot of drafts. 1997, 2003, 2011, 1992, 1990.

DT is just a hair behind DE in terms of relative value, and it's probably equal to OLT. So a DT going #1 overall isn't out of the question at all.

Worrying about DT is smart to teams that likes stability in their defense vs. the sexyness of their pick. Still should be very rare for DTs to go #1 but they are very important. @PhoenixEagles1 no need to respond. I give no fucks what you think about it right now. Since you are incapable of understanding importance of position vs. draft position.
I dont remember, but wasnt Aaron Donald drafted in the teens? (I honestly dont remember & dont care to look it up right now)

Teams should build their team from the inside out.
Doesn't mean you draft that way however.

 

[fishinabarrel]

Sure I'm always game for a bet plus I like Bosa so even if I lose it's whatever lol.

It's a date. Now let's hope one of us remembers lol

 

[ATL96Steeler]

His stats are not #1 pick worthy. Some might argue that his 2018 stats are skewed because of injury.
My response... EXACTLY!

I admittedly am not a college expert, so can somebody please explain why he is the draft darling this year?

I really, really, really want the Cards to trade out of the # 1 position.

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The 1st mistake here is to gauge this player solely on CFB production....I've seen teams (PIT incl) get caught up too much into CFB stats...week in week out even at the big 5 schools the competition is not anywhere near like it will be in the NFL.

To answer your question...I think bloodlines have something to do with it, (note TJ Watt, if his last name is not Watt, does he even go in the 1st rd?)

 

[Across The Field]

Lot of ignorance in this thread. Using his raw stats is just foolish. You have to look at things qualitatively. In 2017, he was an absolute beast. His win rate was well above other rushers. Whether that ends up in a sack, hit, hurry or nothing else, is more a factor of the offensive play call than anything the defender can control. Last season, Bosa won 28.0 percent of his pass-rushes. Have a look:

Gary, Ferrell, Lawrence, Simmons, Wilkins, and Oliver are no doubt first rounders, and Nick was demonstrably better than them on a snap by snap basis.

Joey Bosa won the DROY for a reason, and Nick is possibly an even better prospect. Had he played all of 2018, you're probably seeing a sizable gap for him as the top prospect.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Lot of ignorance in this thread. Using his raw stats is just foolish. You have to look at things qualitatively. In 2017, he was an absolute beast. His win rate was well above other rushers. Whether that ends up in a sack, hit, hurry or nothing else, is more a factor of the offensive play call than anything the defender can control. Last season, Bosa won 28.0 percent of his pass-rushes. Have a look:

Gary, Ferrell, Lawrence, Simmons, Wilkins, and Oliver are no doubt first rounders, and Nick was demonstrably better than them on a snap by snap basis.

Joey Bosa won the DROY for a reason, and Nick is possibly an even better prospect. Had he played all of 2018, you're probably seeing a sizable gap for him as the top prospect.

Good post...still mostly stat driven. We still don't know if that will bear out at the next level. There is always risks with draft picks, but imo you've got to marry CFB production with his athletic ceiling so you want to see his 5, 10, yd bursts (imo 40 times for DL is worthless), shuttle, bend, dip, etc.

I think anytime the projected #1 overall is a DEF player, there will be questions so I can understand the OP's caution, but after QB, the next most important position is either, protect the blind side of the QB, or a player that can get the other teams QB on the ground...I would prefer that guy be on the edge.

I would take Bosa if I were running AZ.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

 

[rmilia1]

It's a date. Now let's hope one of us remembers lol

That's actually the real bet

 

[Jikkle]

If the Cardinals are stuck picking at #1 I've been saying they go with Q. Williams because I feel he would bring more value than Bosa would.

They already have a 10+ sack guy in Jones and the NFC West is probably the run-heaviest division except for the Cardinals themselves. Seattle is going to want to run it up the middle and both the Rams and 9ers run the ball a lot as well.

So if you already have a 10+ sack guy on the outside you're better off getting someone that can be a force from the inside so you can be strong inside and outside up front.

Ultimately though I think the Cardinals are begging someone to trade up and take the pick since they would rather have more picks to plug more holes since they don't need a QB or pass rusher.

As far as Bosa goes his family history gives you reasons to be excited for him and gives you reasons to be terrified of taking him. Joey Bosa is a 10+ sack a year guy if he's healthy so Nick is likely going to give you the same thing but healthy is the key word because the Bosa family gives you reason to be worried if you're going to get full seasons or even most of a season of them and you're not a 10+ sack a year guy if you're hanging out in the blue tent all the time.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I dunno if Bosa can stay healthy I think he's worthy of top 3. I remember Joey drew the same flack but he's certainly a beast when he's on the field. Bosa is far and away the best pass rusher in the class and while the Cards were top 10 in sacks, Chandler Jones is going to be 29 and getting after Wilson/Goff and Garpapool (if he pans out) will be important. You can never have enough pass rushers.

The only argument I'd make is the Cards were dead last in rushing yards allowed and their OG/OT situation is terrible. Williams (bigger guy) might make more sense since he's still a pass rusher but brings likely a bit more in the running game due to size.

But, assuming the Cards can't trade down (which I would ABSOLUTELY say they should - that's if anyone is willing to give up a haul for a uninspiring QB draft class), I'd take Bosa because of his motor, the pedigree, the fact his injury will be healed by TC, and because pass rushers are too valuable in the NFL. Rush defenders are cheap - get em' in free agency.

Williams would be the only other option, and he could be plugged in the same spot and be a replacement for Campbell. Bosa has the higher ceiling though and the Cards would not have to focus on pass rushers for the next 3-4 years if he pans out.

Eh it's between Williams/Bosa, it's whoever the team likes more. Bosa is worth a top 3 though, at least given this class... they really could've used a high rated OT to protect their investment in Rosen. Taylor it seems is projecting more to a guard (345 lbs and he struggled at times with high speed EDGE - and that's College). He'd be great in the top 10 to plug in as a guard since the Cards need help there, but no way you'd take him #1.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

OK...Lets start at the beginning, shall we?

You started your opinion off by 1) posting his college stats - as an indication of how 'good' he appears to be, and 2) admitted you're not some college expert, and therefore asked as to why he's the #1 guy.

I posted links 1) to where the Draftnetwork's Jon Ledyard breaks down the elite edge rushers of the last 5 years and how Nick Bosa compares, and 2) another set of 'inferior stats' put up by JJ Watt in college, thus showing how numbers/talent do not exactly translate from college to the pros.

You couldn't address the first link, because it's obviously beyond your admitted limited college football knowledge. Ledyard/Draftnetwork is a very good source for information in regards to prospects, and they provided a comparison with Nick Bosa to NFL All Pro-type players. Your only response to the second was that 'JJ Watt didn't go top 10.' My second point clearly shows that JJ Watt, given his pro NFL career, could've easily been picked #1, and nobody could say anything against it. Where he 'fell' in the draft is completely irrelevant now.

It also shows how college stats aren't the be-all/end-all....it's the actual ability to translate to the NFL that counts. Again...right from the first link:



Every so-called college expert generally agrees that Nick Bosa is the best edge rusher in the draft - a position coveted more than any other except for QB - and as of right now, the best by a noticeable gap in a draft filled with a lot of high quality pass rushers from the outside. He, along with Quinnen Williams, are now looked at as the 2 guys separating themselves from everybody else.

Given that you really aren't interested in a 'realistic discussion,' I don't see the need to continue much further. I've shown exactly why he can go #1, and I haven't seen much to refute it....especially from you.

Sorry. I stopped reading after “Ok”

 

[Ricky Roma]

Sorry. I stopped reading after “Ok”

As I stated, you're not interested in a 'realistic discussion.' Thanks for admitting it.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

As I stated, you're not interested in a 'realistic discussion.' Thanks for admitting it.

“Realistic”

 

[Ricky Roma]

“Realistic”

If it was crazy, surely you could prove it? But you failed miserably at that....

 

[Scooby-Doo]

If it was crazy, surely you could prove it? But you failed miserably at that....

Why don’t you take this argument to the multiple others who don’t think he is worth the number one pick. Which was my original point to begin with.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Why don’t you take this argument to the multiple others who don’t think he is worth the number one pick. Which was my original point to begin with.

Your original point was based on nothing but ignorance. You admittedly have little college football knowledge. You based your opinion on college stats at face value (which have been ripped apart). You ignored people who are closely tied to, and study college guys transitioning to the pros (Jon Ledyard). You can't refute anything, because you don't know jack squat.

But hey....some dudes say I don't like Bosa 'cause he quit on Ohio State' and that is gold?

Take this argument to others? How bout you stand on your own two feet and make a stand? You started this thread...perhaps you should put more thought into it before you get your shit pushed in.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Your original point was based on nothing but ignorance. You admittedly have little college football knowledge. You based your opinion on college stats at face value (which have been ripped apart). You ignored people who are closely tied to, and study college guys transitioning to the pros (Jon Ledyard). You can't refute anything, because you don't know jack squat.

But hey....some dudes say I don't like Bosa 'cause he quit on Ohio State' and that is gold?

Take this argument to others? How bout you stand on your own two feet and make a stand? You started this thread...perhaps you should put more thought into it before you get your shit pushed in.

Sorry. I stopped reading after "Your"

 

[Ricky Roma]

Sorry. I stopped reading after "Your"

'realistic discussion'

Hahahaha

 

[SteelersPride]

This wont make @Ricky Roma happy

49ers Torn on Quinnen Williams, Nick Bosa
Updated March 12, 2019
By Charlie Campbell. Follow Charlie on Twitter @draftcampbell.

Around NFL teams and in the national media, the assumption is the Cardinals or another team will select Oklahoma quarterback Kyler Murray with the No. 1-overall pick in the 2019 NFL Draft. At No. 2 therefore, there is a consensus that the 49ers will take Ohio State defensive end Nick Bosa. From speaking to 49ers sources, however, the team is very torn on who to take with that pick due to loving Alabama defensive tackle Quinnen Williams. Multiple team sources were more enthusiastic about Williams than they were about Bosa at the NFL Scouting Combine and in the week afterward.

Sources with the 49ers were gushing about Williams. They think he is a rare prospect with an amazing skill set of speed and athleticism. Team sources also like Williams' makeup as an individual, and they are very high on his immense upside. Team sources were gushing about how Williams dominated in 2018 in only his first season of real playing time. They feel that the sky is the limit for his potential.

With Bosa, their praise was not as effusive. They like him and feel he is probably the safer pick, but they did not talk about him as being as special of a player or athlete like Williams is. The other thing going for Bosa is edge rush is a bigger need than defensive tackle. Defensive end Solomon Thomas has been a massive disappointment in the pass rush department, while defensive tackle DeForest Buckner was superb last year, ripping off 12 sacks in his third season.

The 49ers want to improve their pass rush, and team sources said that taking Williams to pair with Buckner could be similar to the Los Angeles Rams pairing Ndamukong Suh with Aaron Donald. Another edge rusher who has been projected to be in play for the 49ers is Kentucky linebacker Josh Allen, but 49ers sources were not high on Allen for the No. 2 pick. Allen would be more of a candidate if they traded down. Trading down is also an option that San Francisco would consider.

Five years ago, I remember hearing similar things coming from the Rams. Los Angeles had a lot of staffers with the team that were in love with Khalil Mack coming out of Buffalo. During the final pre-draft meetings, however, the team switched to Auburn offensive tackle Greg Robinson being their choice for the No. 2-overall pick of the 2014 NFL Draft. Tackle was the bigger need, so that won out, overtaking the player that the team liked more. Obviously, that ended up being a huge mistake as Robinson was a bust for the Rams and Mack is one of the best defensive players in the NFL.

It will be interesting to see whether the 49ers settle on taking the player who is the bigger need, or going with the prospect who they feel could be the better player. Heading into the pro days, pre-draft visits, and final rounds of draft meetings, the 49ers are debating between those two players if they stay at the No. 2-overall pick, with Williams being the player they are higher on, but Bosa being viewed as the safer pick and filling a more pressing need.

Read more: WalterFootball.com: NFL Hot Press

Read more at WalterFootball.com: NFL Hot Press