Nick Bosa... Can we have a realistic discussion?

[Jikkle]

This wont make @Ricky Roma happy

49ers Torn on Quinnen Williams, Nick Bosa
Updated March 12, 2019
By Charlie Campbell. Follow Charlie on Twitter @draftcampbell.

Around NFL teams and in the national media, the assumption is the Cardinals or another team will select Oklahoma quarterback Kyler Murray with the No. 1-overall pick in the 2019 NFL Draft. At No. 2 therefore, there is a consensus that the 49ers will take Ohio State defensive end Nick Bosa. From speaking to 49ers sources, however, the team is very torn on who to take with that pick due to loving Alabama defensive tackle Quinnen Williams. Multiple team sources were more enthusiastic about Williams than they were about Bosa at the NFL Scouting Combine and in the week afterward.

Sources with the 49ers were gushing about Williams. They think he is a rare prospect with an amazing skill set of speed and athleticism. Team sources also like Williams' makeup as an individual, and they are very high on his immense upside. Team sources were gushing about how Williams dominated in 2018 in only his first season of real playing time. They feel that the sky is the limit for his potential.

With Bosa, their praise was not as effusive. They like him and feel he is probably the safer pick, but they did not talk about him as being as special of a player or athlete like Williams is. The other thing going for Bosa is edge rush is a bigger need than defensive tackle. Defensive end Solomon Thomas has been a massive disappointment in the pass rush department, while defensive tackle DeForest Buckner was superb last year, ripping off 12 sacks in his third season.

The 49ers want to improve their pass rush, and team sources said that taking Williams to pair with Buckner could be similar to the Los Angeles Rams pairing Ndamukong Suh with Aaron Donald. Another edge rusher who has been projected to be in play for the 49ers is Kentucky linebacker Josh Allen, but 49ers sources were not high on Allen for the No. 2 pick. Allen would be more of a candidate if they traded down. Trading down is also an option that San Francisco would consider.

Five years ago, I remember hearing similar things coming from the Rams. Los Angeles had a lot of staffers with the team that were in love with Khalil Mack coming out of Buffalo. During the final pre-draft meetings, however, the team switched to Auburn offensive tackle Greg Robinson being their choice for the No. 2-overall pick of the 2014 NFL Draft. Tackle was the bigger need, so that won out, overtaking the player that the team liked more. Obviously, that ended up being a huge mistake as Robinson was a bust for the Rams and Mack is one of the best defensive players in the NFL.

It will be interesting to see whether the 49ers settle on taking the player who is the bigger need, or going with the prospect who they feel could be the better player. Heading into the pro days, pre-draft visits, and final rounds of draft meetings, the 49ers are debating between those two players if they stay at the No. 2-overall pick, with Williams being the player they are higher on, but Bosa being viewed as the safer pick and filling a more pressing need.

Read more: WalterFootball.com: NFL Hot Press

Read more at WalterFootball.com: NFL Hot Press

I prefer Williams because Williams it more of the unicorn and his ceiling to me is around Aaron Donald.

Nick is Joey Bosa so you'll still get a top tier guy but maybe not that All-Pro Hall of Fame kind of guy.

Nick is just the safer pick because you know pretty much how he'll project in the NFL by just watching Joey's tape.

9ers will more than likely go with Nick because he's a safer pick, they still need another edge rusher, and they'll want to have a backup plan and successor to Dee Ford. Not to mention they have Buckner who is already a stud in the interior.

 

[NinerSickness]

I prefer Williams because Williams it more of the unicorn and his ceiling to me is around Aaron Donald.

He's the best since Donald, but thinking they're around the same caliber player is pretty optimistic IMO.

But I agree on Williams over Bosa.

 

[Jikkle]

He's the best since Donald, but thinking they're around the same caliber player is pretty optimistic IMO.

But I agree on Williams over Bosa.

It's unlikely he'll be another Donald but at least he could reach that level which is why I think his ceiling is there. He has the physical gifts but more importantly so far he's shown a high football IQ which is what really sets Donald apart from everyone else.

The tough decision is Bosa plays a more important position and you can count on him being a 10+ sack guy if he's healthy.

So even if Williams is better than Bosa is it worth rolling the dice that he's going to be so much better than Bosa it'll outweigh Bosa's positional value.

But the 9ers are in the enviable position that they can't really go wrong as long as they select Bosa, Williams, or trade down for a nice package of picks.

 

[NinerSickness]

It's unlikely he'll be another Donald but at least he could reach that level which is why I think his ceiling is there. He has the physical gifts but more importantly so far he's shown a high football IQ which is what really sets Donald apart from everyone else.

The tough decision is Bosa plays a more important position and you can count on him being a 10+ sack guy if he's healthy.

So even if Williams is better than Bosa is it worth rolling the dice that he's going to be so much better than Bosa it'll outweigh Bosa's positional value.

But the 9ers are in the enviable position that they can't really go wrong as long as they select Bosa, Williams, or trade down for a nice package of picks.

Plus Bosa's more of a durability risk IMO.

I'm actually hoping for a trade down. Way down.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Bosa should be the pick over Williams because you can then move Thomas inside permanently, where he did quite well when given the opportunities. Williams is still my second pick overall, but with that choice, you basically eliminate Thomas from the equation, and are relying on Ford on one side on edge.

A front of Ford, Buckner, Thomas and Bosa makes the most sense. A Buckner/Williams interior is enticing though....shades of BY/Stubblefield.

 

[Groo]

Plus Bosa's more of a durability risk IMO.

I'm actually hoping for a trade down. Way down.

Did you have someone in mind for the Niners to pick if they did trade down as you wish?

 

[Pattersonca65]

Trading down is only good if you can get a good haul in return. No team is going to give up much of anything to draft Williams or Bosa. Teams will give up alot if there is a franchise QB projected as a high 1st round pick and there are no QBs like that other than possibly Murray which may go to AZ at #1 anyway

 

[NinerSickness]

Did you have someone in mind for the Niners to pick if they did trade down as you wish?

Greedy Willaims CB, LSU. My top choice. He's raw, but 2019 is a throw-away season anyway; he's going to be a very good one in time IMO. And the Niners have time to invest.

Christian Wilkins DT Clemson is criminally underrated; I wouldn't mind nabbing him.

Devin White LB LSU could fill the bill at SAM. He's more of a WILL, but he's athletic enough to play any LB position in a 4-3 IMO.

That's about it in the first round. If they can't trade down for one of those 3 guys, I wouldn't mind trading out of the 1st altogether and getting a bunch of picks in next year's draft and / or the 2nd round of this year. High 2nd rounders (maybe late 1st) to low 2nd's I like are:

Chris Lindstrom OG, BC (loved this guy all season and was hoping to steal him in the 3rd, but his stock is way up).

Jeffery Simmons DT Mississippi St. Like I said: 2019 is a throw-away season IMO. Think 2020 & beyond.

Dexter Lawrence, DT Clemson to a lesser extent. Possible bust but huge piece of a great defense (literally) if he's not a total f**k-up

Hakeem Butler, WR Iowa St. Another guy I was hoping to steal in the 3rd, but his stock is way up. He might even end up a high first rounder, so this point could be moot. Don't want him before 30.

That's about it. I like Tre Lamar ILB Clemson and Blake Cashman OLB Minnesota as later-round prospects, but there aren't a ton of players in this draft who blow up my skirt (which is why I hope they get 2020 picks; 2020 looks to have a great OT class, and Staley is old).

 

[Groo]

Greedy Willaims CB, LSU. My top choice. He's raw, but 2019 is a throw-away season anyway; he's going to be a very good one in time IMO. And the Niners have time to invest.

Christian Wilkins DT Clemson is criminally underrated; I wouldn't mind nabbing him.

Devin White LB LSU could fill the bill at SAM. He's more of a WILL, but he's athletic enough to play any LB position in a 4-3 IMO.

That's about it in the first round. If they can't trade down for one of those 3 guys, I wouldn't mind trading out of the 1st altogether and getting a bunch of picks in next year's draft and / or the 2nd round of this year. High 2nd rounders (maybe late 1st) to low 2nd's I like are:

Chris Lindstrom OG, BC (loved this guy all season and was hoping to steal him in the 3rd, but his stock is way up).

Jeffery Simmons DT Mississippi St. Like I said: 2019 is a throw-away season IMO. Think 2020 & beyond.

Dexter Lawrence, DT Clemson to a lesser extent. Possible bust but huge piece of a great defense (literally) if he's not a total f**k-up

Hakeem Butler, WR Iowa St. Another guy I was hoping to steal in the 3rd, but his stock is way up. He might even end up a high first rounder, so this point could be moot. Don't want him before 30.

That's about it. I like Tre Lamar ILB Clemson and Blake Cashman OLB Minnesota as later-round prospects, but there aren't a ton of players in this draft who blow up my skirt (which is why I hope they get 2020 picks; 2020 looks to have a great OT class, and Staley is old).

Not sure DT is a huge need and the Niners can't trade down to deep for White. Although I would think that signing Kwon lessons the need there considerably.

The Niners earned the 2nd overall pick.To get another is either to suck badly once again or to pay a high price.
I'm not in favor of trading down for the likes of a Greedy Williams

 

[Jikkle]

Bosa should be the pick over Williams because you can then move Thomas inside permanently, where he did quite well when given the opportunities. Williams is still my second pick overall, but with that choice, you basically eliminate Thomas from the equation, and are relying on Ford on one side on edge.

A front of Ford, Buckner, Thomas and Bosa makes the most sense. A Buckner/Williams interior is enticing though....shades of BY/Stubblefield.

Thomas should not be a factor in any draft decisions because at this point with him you're just hoping to salvage him as a serviceable starter.

That doesn't mean I think the 9ers should give up on Thomas but if Williams is head and shoulders #1 on your board you don't pass on him because you're worried about Thomas.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Trading down is only good if you can get a good haul in return. No team is going to give up much of anything to draft Williams or Bosa. Teams will give up alot if there is a franchise QB projected as a high 1st round pick and there are no QBs like that other than possibly Murray which may go to AZ at #1 anyway

Right if the Niners had that first pick instead of the second it would be a HUGE difference imo especially if the Cardinals were in that 2nd slot wanting Murray. Teams would possibly give up a fortune but if the Cards decided to pass on Murray a trade would still be possible and a damn good return. Like you said nobody is trading up for a Dlineman in a draft where there are so many options.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Thomas should not be a factor in any draft decisions because at this point with him you're just hoping to salvage him as a serviceable starter.

That doesn't mean I think the 9ers should give up on Thomas but if Williams is head and shoulders #1 on your board you don't pass on him because you're worried about Thomas.

I definitely believe he should factor because his play outside vs. inside was night and day. He was more than just a serviceable starter when moved inside. I think given that, you would have to think that QW is head and shoulders the best player in the draft to justify taking him over Bosa. It would be very, very debatable if they were close on your board, and a no-brainer if you considered Bosa and QW equal, or leaning towards Bosa.

 

[Shanemansj13]

So as we speak they have:

DE - Dee Ford $14.6M
DT - Buckner $5.78M
DT - Thomas $7.67M
DE - Armstead $9.06M

If they draft Bosa or QT they most likely are sitting Armstead and that is a big salary for a backup. I heard Shanahan wants Thomas playing outside on running plays and inside on passing plays.

Not sure how much of this is true or just talk but I wouldn't be surprised if they traded a couple slots down and got Josh Allen. Pair Kwon and Josh Allen

 

[NinerSickness]

Thomas should not be a factor in any draft decisions because at this point with him you're just hoping to salvage him as a serviceable starter.

That doesn't mean I think the 9ers should give up on Thomas but if Williams is head and shoulders #1 on your board you don't pass on him because you're worried about Thomas.

Anything Thomas gives the DL is extra at this point. You can't count on him to even be a starter.

Since 2019 is a throw-away season, I'm hoping they draft Jeffery Simmons in the early 2nd / late 1st and put him on the shelf until 2020. Either way, DT is a need. A team like the 49ers isn't gonna win a SB unless they put together a friggn' NASTY defense.

 

[NinerSickness]

So as we speak they have:

DE - Dee Ford $14.6M
DT - Buckner $5.78M
DT - Thomas $7.67M
DE - Armstead $9.06M

If they draft Bosa or QT they most likely are sitting Armstead and that is a big salary for a backup.

Niners still have 37+ million in cap space after their recent additions. They're not worried about salaries; they likely won't get anywhere near the cap this season.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

@Ricky Roma , @Jikkle, @NinerSickness

I agree that anything THomas gives us at this point is gravy. So far, he's a bust. A nonfactor on the team.

Thomas does play better inside, but his best position is Buckner's spot, not the NT. That's why he played better when used as a nickel pass rusher inside. Basically, unless he can play NT, there isn't a place for him on the starting DL.

I think the pick will be Bosa and that is probably the smart choice. This team needs outside pass rushers desperately and passing on Bosa, who'd have been a top 10 pick last year, is a little crazy.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Niners still have 37+ million in cap space after their recent additions. They're not worried about salaries; they likely won't get anywhere near the cap this season.

Didn't really break it down bc they are worried about salaries but the last thing they want is a backup that is getting paid $9/10M. Just saying it could be a factor in drafting. I really don't know much about Armstead and depth is great but doesn't seem smart to be paying a backup $9M even if it is for one year when you could invest in other areas that you need to improve in.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I would still be shocked if the Niners didn't grab Bosa. He will be BPA easily if Murray goes #1. If the Cards decide to take Bosa, then I think the Niners need to look over their options and look to trade back for a team desperate for a QB.

 

[Jikkle]

Didn't really break it down bc they are worried about salaries but the last thing they want is a backup that is getting paid $9/10M. Just saying it could be a factor in drafting. I really don't know much about Armstead and depth is great but doesn't seem smart to be paying a backup $9M even if it is for one year when you could invest in other areas that you need to improve in.

It's not ideal to pay him $9 million but when it comes to drafting a guy that you hope is going to have a nice long career with you it shouldn't play a factor in your draft decision making.

And at least with the defensive line it's the one position group that benefits from rotating guys in so it's not like you wouldn't get use out of him if he's still on his roster.

I suspect if the 9ers did go QWill they would be looking to move either AA or Thomas with AA most likely to go because I'm sure there would be a team that would take him on a one year deal if all it cost them was a late round pick.

 

[NinerSickness]

Didn't really break it down bc they are worried about salaries but the last thing they want is a backup that is getting paid $9/10M. Just saying it could be a factor in drafting. I really don't know much about Armstead and depth is great but doesn't seem smart to be paying a backup $9M even if it is for one year when you could invest in other areas that you need to improve in.

Armstead is crap IMO. I hated that pick from day 1. But his contract is expiring, so he's not in their long-term plans IMO.

Armstead could still work out as a 1-gap DE in a 3-4, but he's useless as a DE in a 4-3 IMO.

And I agree it's not smart to keep him; I would've let him walk this offseason. But they're not going to pass up an opportunity to get a starter on the DL because they have Jesse Armstead's boy eating up some cap space they don't even need IMO. That said, they might just go with the current starters on the DL. Lynch is an amateur, so nothing would surprise me from him.