Michael Jordan is a hypocrite

[Vyle203]

All jokes aside, both very good defenders. Kobe better on ball, LeBron probably slightly better on the help side.

 

[trojanfan12]

To be fair though, these accolades don't prove anything.

For one thing, players like Kobe, LeBron, Chris Paul, etc., tend to get more than they really deserve in terms of defensive accolades because of their offensive prowess and the name recognition that creates for them. Second, LeBron plays "forward" and there is a lot more competition for those accolades at the forward spot. For example, I guarantee LeBron never makes another first team because Kawhi and Draymond have that locked unless Giannis ascends.

LeBron definitely has fewer accolades, but he is also capable of guarding more players than Kobe because of his size.

Let's just agree that both were elite perimeter defenders in their primes. It is really futile to try to argue one being better than the other.

Funny how when a stat/accolades favors Lebron, it proves he's the better player.

But when a stat/accolade favors Kobe, there's some reason why that stat/accolade doesn't prove anything, can't be used, or doesn't tell the whole story.

And folks say it's Lakers fans that are biased.

Here's a thought: How about we all agree that both are all time greats and very close to each other and while most (myself included) have Lebron as the better player...there is a valid argument to be made for Kobe?

 

[trojanfan12]

The people who picked him on those defensive teams. He was a roughly average defender over the course of his career.

Lol

So your explanation for Kobe having 5 more All Defensive team awards over Lebron is because those who give out the awards are biased against Lebron?

I'd say you can pretty much wave goodbye to any credibility you had or you ever being seen as non-biased.

You made a post, it was proven incorrect. Admit it and move on.

 

[Vyle203]

Here's a thought: How about we all agree that both are all time greats and very close to each other and while most (myself included) have Lebron as the better player...there is a silly argument to be made for Kobe?

Fine.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Lol

So your explanation for Kobe having 5 more All Defensive team awards over Lebron is because those who give out the awards are biased against Lebron?

I'd say you can pretty much wave goodbye to any credibility you had or you ever being seen as non-biased.

You made a post, it was proven incorrect. Admit it and move on.

It's not proven incorrect. LeBron brings significantly more value on the defensive end of the court than Kobe did. Overall, he is a better defender. Those people weren't biased against LeBron but biased in favor of Kobe. As tlance noted, stars often receive accolades they don't deserve. Case in point with Kobe making the All-Defensive teams.

And if people really want to look at awards, then take a look at Kobe's MVP wins.

 

[trojanfan12]

All jokes aside, both very good defenders. Kobe better on ball, LeBron probably slightly better on the help side.

As @tlance points out, because of his size, Lebron could defend more positions than Kobe.

I agree that Kobe was better on ball and Lebron better at help defense. Kobe better on the perimeter and Lebron able to defend more positions. Both probably pretty equal at steals.

Overall, pretty equal, just one guy better at some aspects and the other guy better at other aspects, imo.

End of the day, I wouldn't want to have to score try to score against either of them. lol

 

[trojanfan12]

It's not proven incorrect. LeBron brings significantly more value on the defensive end of the court than Kobe did. Overall, he is a better defender. Those people weren't biased against LeBron but biased in favor of Kobe. As tlance noted, stars often receive accolades they don't deserve. Case in point with Kobe making the All-Defensive teams.

And if people really want to look at awards, then take a look at Kobe's MVP wins.

So, you want to discount the accolade that favors Kobe, but you want to use the one that favors Lebron.

Then you want to claim Lakers fans are biased.

The bold is particularly hilarious. I guess Lebron must not be a star.

Kobe: 9x First Team All Defensive, 2x Second Team All Defensive

Lebron: 5x First Team All Defensive, 1x Second Team All Defensive

You made a post. It was proven wrong. Admit it and move on.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Well, LeBron could probably do more on the defensive end if he didn't expend most of his energy running the point.

He's pretty good at the art of chase down blocks.

But, I would give Kobe the nod for consistency earlier in his career.

LeBron has become more of a situational defender and less of a every game lockdown presence.

Fair enough. They're different players -- I'd much rather have LeBron as the best player on my defense than Kobe.

 

[knowyourenemy]

So, you want to discount the accolade that favors Kobe, but you want to use the one that favors Lebron.

Then you want to claim Lakers fans are biased.

The bold is particularly hilarious. I guess Lebron must not be a star.

Kobe: 9x First Team All Defensive, 2x Second Team All Defensive

Lebron: 5x First Team All Defensive, 1x Second Team All Defensive

You made a post. It was proven wrong. Admit it and move on.

What post was proven wrong?

Actually, I haven't brought up accolades until now -- and I'm not using them to prove LeBron is better, using them to illustrate that it is ill-advised for Kobe supporters to use accolades to support their argument.

 

[knowyourenemy]

So, you want to discount the accolade that favors Kobe, but you want to use the one that favors Lebron.

Then you want to claim Lakers fans are biased.

The bold is particularly hilarious. I guess Lebron must not be a star.

Kobe: 9x First Team All Defensive, 2x Second Team All Defensive

Lebron: 5x First Team All Defensive, 1x Second Team All Defensive

You made a post. It was proven wrong. Admit it and move on.

Also -- stars OFTEN receive accolades they don't deserve doesn't mean that stars ALWAYS receive accolades they don't deserve. Do you like beating up on straw men?

 

[trojanfan12]

Well, LeBron could probably do more on the defensive end if he didn't expend most of his energy running the point.

He's pretty good at the art of chase down blocks.

But, I would give Kobe the nod for consistency earlier in his career.

LeBron has become more of a situational defender and less of a every game lockdown presence.

Yeah, age has something to do with it too. Kobe became more of a situational defender right about the same age that Lebron has.

I agree that Kobe was a little more consistent earlier in his career than Lebron. While Kobe was generally relied upon to do most of the scoring, he really didn't have to run the offense much. Meanwhile Lebron was running the offense and still providing much of his teams scoring. So it definitely took away some of his energy on the defensive end.

 

[trojanfan12]

What post was proven wrong?

Lol. You know exactly which one was proven wrong. Hell, I quoted it.

 

[tlance]

As @tlance points out, because of his size, Lebron could defend more positions than Kobe.

I agree that Kobe was better on ball and Lebron better at help defense. Kobe better on the perimeter and Lebron able to defend more positions. Both probably pretty equal at steals.

Overall, pretty equal, just one guy better at some aspects and the other guy better at other aspects, imo.

End of the day, I wouldn't want to have to score try to score against either of them. lol

I think this is interesting, because LeBron's greatest weakness on the defensive side is that he overhelps when his man is off the ball. He is not the guy you want guarding an elite shooter for example. I think Kobe is much better suited for that because he is more disciplined defensively.

If I had to choose between either LeBron or Kobe on a ball dominant guard though, I think I take LeBron. He was as good as anybody I have ever seen on the ball during his Miami days.

LeBron does best when matched up with the guy from the other team, or when matched up with a non factor so he can help.

 

[trojanfan12]

Also -- stars OFTEN receive accolades they don't deserve doesn't mean that stars ALWAYS receive accolades they don't deserve. Do you like beating up on straw men?

I only beat up on your straw man.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Lol. You know exactly which one was proven wrong. Hell, I quoted it.

Yeah, and nothing in it was proven wrong.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I only beat up on your straw man.

So you like to assume I'm making a wearker argument than I am and then reply to it? Pathetic, but thanks for admitting it.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think this is interesting, because LeBron's greatest weakness on the defensive side is that he overhelps when his man is off the ball. He is not the guy you want guarding an elite shooter for example. I think Kobe is much better suited for that because he is more disciplined defensively.

If I had to choose between either LeBron or Kobe on a ball dominant guard though, I think I take LeBron. He was as good as anybody I have ever seen on the ball during his Miami days.

LeBron does best when matched up with the guy from the other team, or when matched up with a non factor so he can help.

See, on a ball dominant guard, I would take Kobe because of that defensive discipline that you mentioned. He isn't going to be leaving his man open to go help someone else or chase blocks and steals, which Lebron would.

However, I will say that if Lebron is locked in and playing with Kobe's type of discipline on defense, then I would rather have Lebron because his size and strength add another dimension to his defense that Kobe didn't have.

The problem is, you couldn't depend on that consistency as much with Lebron as you could Kobe.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah, and nothing in it was proven wrong.

Outside of the entire post...you're right.

 

[trojanfan12]

So you like to assume I'm making a wearker argument than I am and then reply to it? Pathetic, but thanks for admitting it.

I already did. Like I said, your post was proven wrong. Just admit it and move on.

You won't though, because it's Kobe and he was a Laker and you have already proven over and over that you are incapable of any kind of unbiased, rational debate when it comes to Kobe or the Lakers.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I already did. Like I said, your post was proven wrong. Just admit it and move on.

You won't though, because it's Kobe and he was a Laker and you have already proven over and over that you are incapable of any kind of unbiased, rational debate when it comes to Kobe or the Lakers.

Wrong. It's yet to be proven that Kobe was a better defender than LeBron and it won't happen any time soon. Citing the number of all-defensive teams does not prove that Kobe was better.

Unless you're talking about my post that he was a roughly average defender over the course of his career. Which still hasn't been proven wrong but there is at least an argument against that claim.

The only reason I seem negative on Kobe is because Lakers fans on here overrate him. I'd be fine if they could just say Kobe was one of the all-time greats and a top 20 player of all-time. But they have to try to compare him to LeBron and there's not much of a comparison.