Michael Jordan is a hypocrite

[Wamu]

BullRushing/Committing offensive fouls and using off arms while being 50/60 pounds heavier than other players to get to the hoop is a "skill"? .... If you say so


Kobe has true offensive skill. Lebron just bullrushes and commits offensive fouls with shoulder lowering and using the off arm. There are libraries filled with LeOffensiveFouls.

 

[shopson67]

Who is doing that?

Kobe after the Achilles injury wasn't Kobe. I have not seen a single person even mention those years. How do you explain 2005 though? Again, prime LeBron takes that roster to the second round of the playoffs.

Let's look at that roster a little closer, lol. You are glossing over some severe weaknesses.

First of all, Rudy T flaked out midseason and left Hamblen to coach. Fisher left for Golden State, Payton and Fox were traded to the Celtics (Fox retired), Shaq was traded, and Malone retired. That is the entire non-Kobe starting 5, plus Fisher. Their draft picks were Sasha Vujacic and Marcus Douthit (unsigned).

Chucky Atkins, G
Tony Bobbitt, G
Tierre Brown, G
Kobe Bryant, G
Caron Butler, G/F
Brian Cook, F
Vlade Divac, C
Devean George, F
Brian Grant, F/C
Jumaine Jones, F
Slava Medvedenko, F
Chris Mihm, C
Lamar Odom, F
Sasha Vujacic, G
Luke Walton, F

Vlade played in 15 games (no starts) in his final season. Grant started 8 games and only averaged 16 min a game with little production. That was Walton's second season, and he was only a depth player averaging 12 min and 3 ppg. Butler was 15/6/2, Odom was 15/10/4. Mihm had 10/7. Kobe missed 16 games that year and averaged 28/6/6, his highest assist average (other than his 6 game season in 13/14). The rest of that roster was dreck.

 

[knowyourenemy]

...coming from a known Laker hater, lol.

Yes, I take a lot of opportunities to trash the Lakers -- but it doesn't make me wrong on this one.

 

[Vyle203]

Its the truth. Can the argument be refuted?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fiveth.../features/the-lebron-james-school-of-driving/

Watch the video.

 

[shopson67]

Kobe definitely had the killer instinct, I will always respect that about him.

When you said "drive" in your earlier post, were you talking about driving to the basket or drive to compete?

to compete

slashing was taking the ball to the basket

 

[knowyourenemy]

Its the truth. Can the argument be refuted?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

[Wamu]

Yes, it's close.

You gave Kobe the edge as a shooter, I'm just saying the stats don't bear that out.

Stats & facts have no place on SportsHoopla. It simply doesn't matter that LeBron for his career averages more pts, rebs, asts, stls & has a better shooting %. And to take those #'s a bit further if you compare LeBron & Kobe's #'s through their 1st 14 seasons LeBron still averages more pts, rebs, asts, stls & has a better FG %.

 

[Vyle203]

Stats & facts have no place on SportsHoopla. It simply doesn't matter that LeBron for his career averages more pts, rebs, asts, stls & has a better shooting %. And to take those #'s a bit further if you compare LeBron & Kobe's #'s through their 1st 14 seasons LeBron still averages more pts, rebs, asts, stls & has a better FG %.

More points, less shots, take a quick gander at LeBron v Kobe when it comes to PER, it's not even close.

Is being efficient a skill? I would argue that it is.

 

[shopson67]

He also gave Kobe the edge as a defender which goes to show that he's clearly biased.

9 time all defensive first team, 3 time all defensive second team (2000-2012, with the exception of 2005)

5 time all defensive first team, 1 time all defensive second team (all 2009-2014, none since)

 

[Vyle203]

to compete

Well it doesn't get much more subjective than that.

Just because LBJ isn't an asshole ala Kobe and MJ doesn't mean he doesn't have the drive. He carries himself differently.

 

[shopson67]

LeBron made it to the Finals with a weaker roster before he was even in his prime. No chance he not wins 34 games there.

In the East. You're right, Lebron's career average of 27/7/7 vs Kobe's 2004 season of 27/6/6 would've propelled that team right to the finals, lol.

 

[Wamu]

More points, less shots, take a quick gander at LeBron v Kobe when it comes to PER, it's not even close.

Is being efficient a skill? I would argue that it is.

I'm not a fan of either player. But looking @ things objectively LeBron simply is the more skilled/better player.

 

[trojanfan12]

Actually, she's using one random poll to prove something that she doesn't even agree with herself. She says she has LeBron ranked ahead of Kobe.

Or, perhaps she's using the poll to illustrate that those who do favor Kobe, have a valid argument.

People like to make blanket statements such as "this guy is better than that guy and it isn't even close" when the fact is that when comparing great players, especially all time greats, there are almost always valid arguments for both.

 

[Vyle203]

I'm not a fan of either player. But looking @ things objectively LeBron simply is the more skilled/better player.

And I think that's the consensus throughout the basketball community.

I think it's funny that all this is being rehashed because MJ decided to troll LeBron in typical MJ fashion.

He used to do the same thing to Kobe, now it benefits him to make Kobe out to be the better player.

 

[shopson67]

I got news for you, it is much harder to defend a willing passer like LeBron in that situation than it is to defend somebody you know is shooting 98% of the time.

Grand overstatement when comparing two players whose career apg are only 2.3 apart.

 

[shopson67]

And I think that's the consensus throughout the basketball community.

I think it's funny that all this is being rehashed because MJ decided to troll LeBron in typical MJ fashion.

He used to do the same thing to Kobe, now it benefits him to make Kobe out to be the better player.

He used to do so to Kobe in comparison with himself. Clearly, MJ>Kobe. There isn't even any point in comparing himself directly to Lebron. Kobe/Lebron is a better discussion.

 

[Wamu]

And I think that's the consensus throughout the basketball community.

I think it's funny that all this is being rehashed because MJ decided to troll LeBron in typical MJ fashion.

He used to do the same thing to Kobe, now it benefits him to make Kobe out to be the better player.

Personally I've never liked the LeBron/Kobe comparisons. Their games are completely different. Of course both are all time great players but LeBron's skill set is closer to Magic's than Kobe's. Also it's a bit unfair to any player to be compared to the GOAT. For me it's MJ & then everyone else. Nobody is @ Jordan's level.

 

[Vyle203]

He used to do so to Kobe in comparison with himself. Clearly, MJ>Kobe. There isn't even any point in comparing himself directly to Lebron. Kobe/Lebron is a better discussion.

I agree Lebron/Kobe is a better comparison than Michael/LeBron.

Thats why it's(of the 3)...

1. MJ



2. LeBron
3. Kobe

 

[trojanfan12]

People talk about LeBron's biggest blemish being the 2010 Finals against the Mavericks. I agree. But how do you explain Kobe's 34 win 2005 campaign with Odom and Butler on the team? LeBron takes that crew to the second round of the playoffs.

lol No he doesn't.

First of all, that Lakers team played in the West. Lebron isn't taking that team to the 2nd round in the West. As a matter of fact, Lebron's team didn't make the playoffs either that season. I will grant that it was only his 2nd season, but he was already one of the better players in the game and couldn't get them to the playoffs in the East.

Second, Kobe played in 66 games that season. If the Lakers just play .500 basketball for the 16 games that Kobe missed, they are 42-40 and barely miss the playoffs (the same record as Lebron's Cavs). If they were able to go, say 11-5 over those 16 games, they are in the playoffs.

 

[trojanfan12]

LBJ's ability to get to the hoop is a skill, using one's body is a skill. LeBron was better at it. Doesn't matter if you use strength or quickness, so don't use the word bully like he's cheating or something.

No one is claiming he's cheating, but bullying his way to the basket is where a lot of his efficiency comes from. You could say the exact same thing about Shaq. Much of Shaq's efficiency came from "bullying" his way to the basket because he was simply bigger, stronger and heavier than other players.

I do agree that there is skill in knowing how to use that size advantage without A.) drawing offensive fouls and B.) having opposing players allowed to be more physical with you than with other players.

But let's not pretend that what each did/does isn't bullying their way to the basket. It's not cheating, but it is bullying in it's own regard.

And yes, LeBron shoots better from 3, if you can use chucking from Kobe as an excuse, then I'll use shot selection as an explanation the way @tlance did.

Except for that whole Lebron and Kobe's 3 point shooting being almost identical, you're right. lol