McNabb on Cutler's Contract

[leomaz]

Why pretend Jay is elite and pay him as such? Would any other team have done so? Sorry but anyone pretending this was a fair price is kidding themselves. We OVER paid. Sure it may work out but that does not change the fact we paid for elite talent and have not gotten it.

Why did "we" pretend Tony Romo was elite? Why did "we" pretend Matt Ryan was elite?

No one is pretending this was a fair price it absoluetly was a fair price.

Tennesse would have.
Minnesota would have.
Jacksonville would have.

Don't include me in your "we" because there are some of us "we" that feel it was a good deal for the teams continuity.

 

[richig07]

Wow. Richig07... I couldn't have said any of those last 3 post better! Awesome! Completely agree.

I have never understood the: "get someone else" mantra that has gone on for the past few years. When that's all we've seen at the QB position for almost 20 years.

I had a huge and exhausting couple of rants on it, which kind of went more in-depth to my point back around the time of the deal. The thread was truly tiring (a few of them were), and that's what this is turning into as well. Anytime that these Cutler threads happen on this board, it's the same long ass excruciating conversation with nobody ever changing anyone else's minds.

It's silly, really. It has been the same thing going all of the way back to our ESPN days when Cutler got here in 2009. I wish I could say I'm going to stop, and the "mature one". But I've said it before, it never happens. It's too tempting to get roped in. Then, when you do… you're not going to stop until the thread is finished.

When I have down time on my hands is when I mostly post on boards like this. I can can kill hours on here arguing dumb shit. Meanwhile, I just checked out three books from the library last week that I've been meaning to read, and I've barely started any of them at all. I suppose I really am just a "meatball" Bears fan, and no type of intellectual. As I said, you won't find many of those on sports message boards.

 

[richig07]

Why did "we" pretend Tony Romo was elite? Why did "we" pretend Matt Ryan was elite?

No one is pretending this was a fair price it absoluetly was a fair price.

Tennesse would have.
Minnesota would have.
Jacksonville would have.

Don't include me in your "we" because there are some of us "we" that feel it was a good deal for the teams continuity.

No one "pretended" anything about any QB being elite. Arguing over who is "elite" is something for ESPN analysts to use in order to fill up air-time.

There's no such thing as an "argument" over who is elite.

Elite = There is no argument. Everyone in their right mind concedes it. (AKA Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees)

If you have to argue over it, than he's not elite. At least, to me… that's the only logical way to look at it. And it is the only possible way to actually give "elite" a real definition.

 

[leomaz]

Chicago Bears Quarterbacks
Mike Tomczak, Ohio State: Tomczak was signed as an undrafted free agent in 1985. The Bears cut Rusty Lisch very shortly after acquiring Tomczak. He would get in for mopup duty in 1985, then actually started seven games in 1986 and six in 1987. In 1988, the good friend of McMahon's shared time with the veteran, starting Chicago's playoff victory in the Fog Bowl over Philadelphia. He entered 1989 as the starter, yielded to Jim Harbaugh briefly, then lost the starting quarterback battle to Harbaugh in 1990. Following that season, he was designated for Plan B Free Agency and picked up by Green Bay. Signed: 1985 Started in: 1986-1990 Designated for Plan B: 1991
Jim Harbaugh, Michigan: Legend has it that Ditka threatened to quit when he was overruled in the draft room about taking Harbaugh with the 26th pick of the 1987 draft. Harbaugh was vilified at times by Bear fans, but is still the team's all-time leader in attempts, completions and ranks second to Luckman in passing yards. After Harbaugh's seven seasons in Chicago, he signed with Indianapolis where he was voted to the Pro Bowl following the 1995 season. Drafted: 1987 (1) Started in: 1988-1993 Released: 1994
Peter Tom Willis, Florida State: Like all other backup quarterbacks, Willis was a very popular backup to fans: until he played. He got his chance to start in 1992 when a frustrated Ditka benched Harbaugh. Willis played pedestrian at best, throwing eight interceptions and four touchdowns in two starts. Drafted: 1990 (3) Started in: 1992-1993 Released: 1994
Will Furrer, Virginia Tech: Furrer was a strong-armed left-handed quarterback with promise. The promise faded in his only start, Ditka's last game at Dallas. He completed 9 of 25 passes for 89 yards and three interceptions against the Super Bowl-bound Cowboys. Drafted: 1992 (4) Started in: 1992 Released: 1993
Erik Kramer, North Carolina State: Kramer would be known as one of the top three quarterbacks in Bears history, with McMahon and Luckman, if he could have done it for more than one year. Kramer piloted Ron Turner's first brilliantly successful offense in 1995, setting Bears season records for attempts, completions, yards and touchdown passes. But he was hurt in 1994, 96, and 98. His original three-year deal, inked in 1994, was extended for two more in '98, but he was cut after the first year. Signed: 1994 Started in: 1994-1998 Released: 1999
Steve Walsh, Miami: Signed as a backup to Kramer in 1994, Walsh took over after a Kramer injury and guided the team to its first playoff appearance since 1991. And its last playoff win since then. He lost the battle for the starting job in 1995 to Kramer and warmed the bench that season. Signed: 1994 Started in: 1994 Lost to free agency: 1996
Dave Krieg, Milton College: Kreig was so old when the Bears signed him in 1996 that the college he played for no longer had a football team as of that point. 1996 was his 17th season in the NFL, and he was signed strictly as a backup. With the Chicago Bears, however, that is an expectation to be playing by game five. That's exactly what happened when a struggling Kramer was lost for the season with a neck disc injury. Signed: 1996 Started in: 1996 Not re-signed: 1997
Rick Mirer, Notre Dame: Dave Wannstedt's Chicago epitaph says something about trading for Rick Mirer. Mirer's cost was a first-round pick, the 11th in the draft. He lasted one hideous, awful season in Chicago. He didn't even start the season, as Kramer was healed and Mirer looked terrible. Traded for: 1997 Started in: 1997 Released: 1998
Steve Stenstrom, Stanford: Stenstrom was one of several intriguing quarterbacks selected in the fourth round of the 1995 draft. Kansas City drafted him, then tried to quickly release him to re-sign him to a lower salary that year. The Bears jumped at the chance to steal the guy praised by Bill Walsh as a budget Joe Montana. Stenstrom was putrid in his 1998 starts, relieving an again-injured Kramer. Walsh then signed him in San Francisco and got to see how bad he was closeup. Signed: 1995 Started In: 1998 Released: 1999
Moses Moreno, Colorado State: Stenstrom was so bad that rookie seventh-round pick Moses Moreno started a game in 1998. He injured his knee, ending his career for the Bears. Drafted: 1998 (7) Started in: 1998 Released: 1999
Shane Matthews, Florida: Matthews was a third-stringer for the Bears from 1993-1995, then again in 1996, and was brought back for a third time in 1999. Following the release of Kramer, Matthews became the first starter for Gary Crowton's "razzle dazzle offense". Matthews played admirably from 1999-2001, but lacked a big-time arm. He struggled when he replaced Jim Miller following Miller's injury in the 2001 playoff game, and was not resigned. Signed: 1993, 1996, 1999 Started in: 1999-2001 Not resigned: 2002
Cade McNown, UCLA: Petulant, arrogant, smarmy, you name a few adjectives to describe the quarterback predicted to be the next Jim McMahon. Declared that he didn't drink, smoke or have premarital sex, but he was indicted for misusing handicapped parking placards. Angered his teammates so much that they reportedly threatened mutiny if he were started over Matthews in the final game of 2000. Had brief stops in Miami and San Francisco but never threw another pass in the NFL following a final completion against Detroit in the 2000 finale. Did pocket close to $20 million on his rookie deal. Drafted: 1999 (1) Started in: 1999-2000 Traded: 2001
Jim Miller, Michigan State: Miller was signed off the scrapheap in 1998 following Moreno's knee injury. He was a longshot to make the roster in 1999. He responded by throwing for huge numbers in Crowton's offense, then led the Bears to the playoffs in 2001. Almost as oft-injured as McMahon. Signed a five-year extension prior to the 2002 season, only completed one year on the deal. Signed: 1998 Started in: 1999-2002 Released: 2003
Chris Chandler, Washington: See Dave Krieg. Again, wasn't supposed to have to play for Miller. Again, had to replace Miller in week seven. Chandler was as injury-prone as McMahon and Miller, and was knocked woozy in Champaign against Philadelphia. Had to be dragged like an invalid to the medical trailer behind the Memorial Stadium scoreboard. Turned in gritty performances in 2003 in relief of Kordell Stewart, but it was for naught. Signed: 2002 Started in: 2002-2003 Not resigned: 2004
Henry Burris, Temple: Touted as the biggest surprise from the CFL since, and better than, Jeff Garcia. "Happy Hank" was his nickname. One pathetic start in Chicago is his legacy. Signed: 2002 Started in: 2002 Released: 2003
Kordell Stewart, Colorado: See Henry Burris, but with a better NFL resume. The Bears signed Stewart to a two-year deal over an available Jake Delhomme due to his experience, albeit bad experience. Finally benched for good after throwing game-changing interceptions at Green Bay, ending Chicago's dim playoff hopes. Signed: 2003 Started in: 2003 Released: 2004
Jonathan Quinn, Middle Tennessee State: Recommended by new Offensive Coordinator Terry Shea to help install his offense. Hoped to only fill mentor role. Was thrust into action when Rex Grossman blew up his knee in the season's third week. Absolutely abysmal: threw three picks and one touchdown with a 53.7 rating in 2004. Signed: 2004 Started in: 2004 Released: 2005
Craig Krenzel, Ohio State: Picked in the fifth round in 2004, ended up starting due to the utter misery that was Quinn's play. Became the starter on October 31st and won three games in a row--not bad for a rookie--but was helped immensely by his defense and poor competition. Injured on Thanksgiving at Dallas and was supplanted by Chad Hutichinson. Drafted: 2004 (5) Started in: 2004 Released: 2005
Chad Hutchinson, Stanford: Claimed off a surfboard following Rex Grossman's knee injury that ended his 2004 season. Defeated the Minnesota Vikings in his first start, looking like the answer to the Bears' quarterback problems of the past. Played very average in four straight losses to end the 2004 season. Looked to start in 2005 after Grossman's last injury, but was atrocious in the preseason. Cut. Signed: 2004 Started in: 2004 Released: 2005
Kyle Orton, Purdue: Pressed into duty when Grossman injured his ankle, and Hutchinson stunk, in the 2005 preseason. Became only the second rookie quarterback since 1970 to win 10 starts, but like Krenzel he was helped greatly by a great defense. Deserves a lot of credit for steadying the ship in 2005 prior to Grossman's return. Orton has also been installed as the third starter of the 2007 season, and has played remarkably well as the fulltime starter in 2008. Drafted: 2005 (4) Started in: 2005, 2007-2008
Rex Grossman, Florida: In 2006, Grossman became the first Chicago Bears quarterback since 1995, and only the third since 1981, to start all 16 games in a season. Alternately celebrated as a potential MVP and vilified as the team's worst problem, he led the 2006 Bears to the Super Bowl. Then generally stunk in that game. Entered the 2007 season with a goal of throwing 30 touchdowns and less than 10 interceptions, Grossman was benched after three games, then returned to start four more before suffering a season-ending knee injury. Final 2007 statistics: 4 touchdowns, 7 interceptions and a 67.1 QB rating. Drafted: 2003 (1) Started in: 2003-2008
Brian Griese, Michigan: Signed: 2006 Started in: 2007 Griese relieved Grossman as the Bears' starting quarterback in week four at Detroit. Griese put up fairly stunning numbers for a Bears quarterback, even winning two close comeback games at Green Bay and Philadelphia. But generally he played hot and cold, finishing with a 3-3 record in games he started, 3-4 in games in which he played a bulk of the snaps. Signed: 2006 Started in: 2007

 

[richig07]

Peter Tom Willis, Florida State: Like all other backup quarterbacks, Willis was a very popular backup to fans: until he played.



Ain't that the damn truth.

Damn, all of the QB's that fans have wanted to give a shot in this city. Hilarious.

 

[leomaz]

Noons favorite had to be Rick Mirer.....gave up a #1 draft pick for a piece of shit Qb. Helped me get my season tickets but didn't help our draft.

 

[leomaz]

Craig Krenzel won three games in a row.....something Josh McCown has never done. Might want to get his number noon

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

McCown played good ball against shitty teams and still came out with a losing record? Wtf noon. His TD to INT ratio was skewed as he got incredibly lucky on about six "should-be" INTs and we still LOST half his games against terrible fucking teams!?

After 25 years, and the fucking Dead Sea Scrolls list of shitty QBs, how any Bears fan cannot think this kid is BY FAR the best QB we've had in a lifetime is beyond me. Does he throw some picks? Sure. Has he been set up to fail all but ONE FUCKING season of being here? An overwhelming YES.

When McCown looks like the average journeyman that he is this year, under Lovie's shitty offensive system, will you still act like he's great? It was a right place, right time thing, and really completely inflated and overrated.

You misunderstand, I hated McCown. But he proves my point that any QB could look good with all this talent around him. Cutler is our best QB in forever but he is nearing the end. I would have rather went young and cheap and let a young QB be groomed by our new coach.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Craig Krenzel won three games in a row.....something Josh McCown has never done. Might want to get his number noon

Sure well give him 54 mil too.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Wow. Richig07... I couldn't have said any of those last 3 post better! Awesome! Completely agree.

I have never understood the: "get someone else" mantra that has gone on for the past few years. When that's all we've seen at the QB position for almost 20 years.

So because of past mistakes we should not try anymore? We now have a real offensive coach and tons of talent on offense. This is the perfect time to groom a young QB.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Peter Tom Willis, Florida State: Like all other backup quarterbacks, Willis was a very popular backup to fans: until he played.



Ain't that the damn truth.

Damn, all of the QB's that fans have wanted to give a shot in this city. Hilarious.

I dont see any QBs on that list that us fans wanted or felt good about.

 

[beardown07]

So because of past mistakes we should not try anymore? We now have a real offensive coach and tons of talent on offense. This is the perfect time to groom a young QB.

Thats fine..i even somewhat agree, but we were not in position to draft anyone worth their weight in shit, and there is no guarantee we could get a replacement for Cutler. I dont think they had any choice but to re- sign him.

I personally think he's primed fir a big year and they would've been crucified if they let a 30 yr old in his prime walk.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Thats fine..i even somewhat agree, but we were not in position to draft anyone worth their weight in shit, and there is no guarantee we could get a replacement for Cutler. I dont think they had any choice but to re- sign him.

I personally think he's primed fir a big year and they would've been crucified if they let a 30 yr old in his prime walk.

I agree with everything you said.

 

[Smart]

I will say that I can't remember a time when there was more QB depth in theNFL. I'm fully convinced that there are 25-26 quality QBs right now. Jay is absolutely one of them, although I think he's probably only about 15th best. Part of me feels like it's stupid to pay him as much as we did when there is such a supply of good QBs, many of which are better than him. On the the side of the coin, though, it is impossible to win a title without one of those quality QBs.

The ultimate question to the Cutler deal is this: Do you think the Bears can make a deep playoff run with their current roster? If the answer is no, they shouldn't have re-signed Cutler. There's no use paying $16 Million for an average starter when you will likely be able to get a decent QB by the time you are ready to contend anyways. If the answer is yes, it was a great deal. $16 Million is an awfully low amount of money to add that least piece to a team that contend for a championship.

If the defense comes back anywhere close to 2012 form, I think this team can absolutely be the best NFC team this side of Seattle. I'll give Emery the benefit of the doubt that we can do that, but if we go 8-8 again, it's going to be tough to swallow being stuck with an average starter for seven years at an above market rate.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Why did "we" pretend Tony Romo was elite? Why did "we" pretend Matt Ryan was elite? We did'nt.

No one is pretending this was a fair price it absoluetly was a fair price. ( fair? based on??)

Tennesse would have. No
Minnesota would have. No
Jacksonville would have. No

Don't include me in your "we" because there are some of us "we" that feel it was a good deal for the teams continuity.

Continuity? so you want more of what we had? I want to get better.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

I will say that I can't remember a time when there was more QB depth in theNFL. I'm fully convinced that there are 25-26 quality QBs right now. Jay is absolutely one of them, although I think he's probably only about 15th best. Part of me feels like it's stupid to pay him as much as we did when there is such a supply of good QBs, many of which are better than him. On the the side of the coin, though, it is impossible to win a title without one of those quality QBs.

The ultimate question to the Cutler deal is this: Do you think the Bears can make a deep playoff run with their current roster? If the answer is no, they shouldn't have re-signed Cutler. There's no use paying $16 Million for an average starter when you will likely be able to get a decent QB by the time you are ready to contend anyways. If the answer is yes, it was a great deal. $16 Million is an awfully low amount of money to add that least piece to a team that contend for a championship.

If the defense comes back anywhere close to 2012 form, I think this team can absolutely be the best NFC team this side of Seattle. I'll give Emery the benefit of the doubt that we can do that, but if we go 8-8 again, it's going to be tough to swallow being stuck with an average starter for seven years at an above market rate.

Good post.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I will say that I can't remember a time when there was more QB depth in theNFL. I'm fully convinced that there are 25-26 quality QBs right now.

Well, that's what the NFL wants, and that's why the rules are set up to favor QBs. I don't know that current QBs are any better, but the rules are making them look that way.

 

[richig07]

You misunderstand, I hated McCown. But he proves my point that any QB could look good with all this talent around him. Cutler is our best QB in forever but he is nearing the end. I would have rather went young and cheap and let a young QB be groomed by our new coach.

He's 30, and just signed a brand new contract. Yet, "he is nearing the end".

Hmm…

A 30 year old QB is hardly nearing the end. He's younger than Rodgers. Is Rodgers nearing the end? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it.

Sorry, that's one of the worst arguments I've heard against Cutler yet. Age is far from concern for him.

 

[richig07]

So because of past mistakes we should not try anymore? We now have a real offensive coach and tons of talent on offense. This is the perfect time to groom a young QB.

No, much like other people who try and make this exact same point, you don't get it.

It's not about. "Oh, Cutler is better than anything we've had. Look how much better he is than Rex Grossman. HAHAHAHAHA." That joke never gets old.

It's about the entire offense. EVERYTHING THAT IS IN PLACE.

FINALLY… after decades and DECADES of failure. The Bears have one of the best offenses in football, and YOU WANT TO START OVER!??????!!!!!!!!??????!!!???

We were just 2nd in scoring in the NFL… and the only team we trailed set the all-time points record… AND THEY'RE ON THE UPSWING! THAT WAS ONLY THEIR FIRST YEAR TOGETHER………. yet… YOU WANT TO START OVER!????!!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

After all of the horse shit you've endured. All of the pieces are in place. It's ready to make a FUCKING go of it. Young talent is in place. Veteran talent is in place. YET…………. YOU WANT TO START OVER!!!!!!!????!!!??????

This isn't the MLB or the NBA… this is the NFL. Your window is short, careers are short. Primes are gone in the blink of god damned EYE. In a lot of cases, the snap of an ankle or a knee. How long does Brandon have left in his prime? Can we manage to resign Jeffery? Forte is nearing 30, which generally spells death for NFL RB's. Especially ones who have touched the ball like he has. We have about a two year window on offense if it all somehow stays together. (three years if we're super lucky) To TRULY do some damage with the talent we have right now on offense. Chances slip away so fast in this league.

YET…. YOU… WANT…. TO…. FUCKING…. START OOOOVER!!!!?????!!?!????

YOU WANT TO REBUILD!?

WHAT…. THE…. FUCK….


You act like QB's fall off of trees in this league, despite the fact that you've only watched young promising ones fail since the day you were born. Rookie QB's fail FAR more than they succeed.

YET… you want to abandon all plans with an offense that has everything going for them in order to start your offense all over with a brand new young QB. Like Johnny fucking Football nonetheless. The 5'11 drunk frat kid snorting coke and hanging out with Justin Bieber?

Okay…

Maybe our children and grand children will remember us, and leave flowers at our graves the day the Bears finally have a chance at a real offense again.

Hey, oh gee Nooner… can you buy me tickets to the first game in 2017 that a new "Peter Tom Willis" or "Shane Matthews" finally gets his first start, after the coaching staff then gets their heads out of their asses and benches the starter the entire city hates… only to put in another shitty QB who we all loved when he was holding a clipboard?

Oh man. Rookie QB's… veteran cast-offs. This is going to be FUCKING great. Oh… LMAO… why not? Bring it on. If this city wants Cutler gone, and they want to restart this whole process. FUCK YOU. YOU DESERVE IT.

Brandon Marshall will NEVER play in a playoff game, it'll be awesome!

 

[richig07]

I will say that I can't remember a time when there was more QB depth in theNFL. I'm fully convinced that there are 25-26 quality QBs right now. Jay is absolutely one of them, although I think he's probably only about 15th best. Part of me feels like it's stupid to pay him as much as we did when there is such a supply of good QBs, many of which are better than him. On the the side of the coin, though, it is impossible to win a title without one of those quality QBs.

Sorry, but what a silly quote.

Just, ALL OF THE SUDDEN… QB's got better? Or did the rule changes and schemes change in this league, allowing QB's to throw for bigger numbers. lol… I'll take the latter.

Just because 25 QB's threw for 3500 yards… that does not mean there's 25 good QB's. That means the league has been watered down offensively, to the point where the mediocre and bad QB's can still put up numbers to hang with the good ones.

It's not a spike in talent… it's a rigged game. As mentioned, Josh Freeman has something like the 27th best passer rating in the history of football. Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers are in the top 8.

… do you think that's because they're better than the likes of Warren Moon and Fran Tarketon? Please don't say yes.