Jimmy Graham

[dude82]

This thread has taken several sharp turns that haven't been particularly productive.

I'll just say this about Cable... it's great that he can take guys who have either not played on the offensive line since high school or never played on the offensive line at all and turned turn some of them into serviceable offensive linemen. I don't know if it's a conscious decision he's made to take raw talent and try to turn it into a decent lineman or if Schneider or Carroll told him they don't have the money for true offensive linemen, so they'd have to get creative, but it's been frustrating as a fan that we've routinely had one of the worst pass protecting lines in the league since Cable got here.

If it's the former, then it would seem like an ego thing where he thinks he can make anyone into a half decent offensive linemen. If it's the latter, then it makes sense why, despite routinely fielding offensive lines that can't pass protect worth a damn (although they seem to have figured it out in the last month or so *knock on wood*), he hasn't been fired. If pretty much any other team kept fielding offensive lines as bad at pass protection as ours has been, they'd have fired their offensive line coach or offensive coordinator by now.

Getting the thread somewhat back on topic... I'll repeat that I don't think Graham is going anywhere anytime soon and that I haven't heard anything to suggest that he wants out or that the team wants him gone. I have also not heard anyone affiliated with the team suggest that his recovery from this injury is set to take any longer than the average recovery for this type of injury. I guess we'll find out if it does or not, but I haven't heard anything to suggest that it will.

 

[chf]

No i DID NOT blame the Oline coach for injuries LMAO that is ignorance to even think that. Okung was a stud when he came here although he was injury prone. That does not in ANYWAY mean Cable made him that way WTF dude lmao. His Skill as a blocker never increased and has regressed. You are grasping for things that are not there Uhsplit. Okung was here BEFORE Cable and improved but has not improved under cable and has regressed. ( this is the BIGGEST tell-tail sign )

Unger was a stud but he also NEVER IMPROVED and actually regressed as a blocker which made him expendable because the gap between him and the others was not that large. Become injury prone did not help.

Moffit NEVER improved here, This is 100% correct. You can bring other teams into it if you want but that has nothing to do with my comment. He NEVER improved here end of story.

Carp never improved "over time." He had 1 good year of "ok" play and what a shocker it was his CONTRACT year. We have seen this happen HUNDREDS of times in the NFL. Players always seem to have their best season in contract years.

Sweezy was a College DL not a olineman. Britt was a good college olineman, he played ok in his rookie season but was total and utter crap this season and they moved him to LG where his play has been ok at best matching his rookie season.

Your retort is so full of holes it's not even funny. The way you try to explain it makes me wonder what drugs you are on. Like the part where out of left field you make it sound as if i am blaming Cable for injury prone players LMAO wtf?

Still believe 100% with out a doubt that Bill Callahan could make this group light years better than Cable EVER has.

So repeat the same assertions you made before as fact, double down on calling those that disagree with you stupid. Oh, and ignore a direct question put to you in my post.

Is the current group (including Okung) playing better now than they were at the start of the season? Yes or no?

 

[Screamin12th]

So repeat the same assertions you made before as fact, double down on calling those that disagree with you stupid. Oh, and ignore a direct question put to you in my post.

Is the current group (including Okung) playing better now than they were at the start of the season? Yes or no?

Dude Wilson has been getting the ball out 0.6 seconds faster than he was before that is the big change. He is still getting hit and Britt falls for every first move, Sweezy is a headcase still and Okung is still a off sides machine, Gilliam is just a joke for a RT. Lewis is a massive upgrade from the POS we had at Center before who Cable picked as better than Lewis ( remember that ). Is the oline playing better as a group? maybe a little but the BIG difference is how fast Russ is getting the ball out. Go back and watch the All 22 film and you will see had Russ still been holding onto the ball that Extra .6 seconds the Sacks would still be there at an alarming pace.

So the current group is giving Russel Just enough time but he is still getting hammered when he throws even though he is getting the ball out FASTER than he EVER HAS IN HIS CAREER lmao.

Cable is trash and has handcuffed this team for 4 years. Time to move on to some new blood that has something to offer or TEACH this line. I stand by what i said because the only "assumption" i made was that Cable gave the FO and Pete Bad info think about Nowak over Lewis people, that was CABLE'S choice. Makes you wonder what other choices he made that has hurt this team. Remember They made Nowak a STARTER over all the other centers on this team and he is not even on the team any more. WTF kind of vision for talent is that? that would be ZERO VISION lmao.

 

[Screamin12th]

This thread has taken several sharp turns that haven't been particularly productive.

I'll just say this about Cable... it's great that he can take guys who have either not played on the offensive line since high school or never played on the offensive line at all and turned turn some of them into serviceable offensive linemen. I don't know if it's a conscious decision he's made to take raw talent and try to turn it into a decent lineman or if Schneider or Carroll told him they don't have the money for true offensive linemen, so they'd have to get creative, but it's been frustrating as a fan that we've routinely had one of the worst pass protecting lines in the league since Cable got here.

If it's the former, then it would seem like an ego thing where he thinks he can make anyone into a half decent offensive linemen. If it's the latter, then it makes sense why, despite routinely fielding offensive lines that can't pass protect worth a damn (although they seem to have figured it out in the last month or so *knock on wood*), he hasn't been fired. If pretty much any other team kept fielding offensive lines as bad at pass protection as ours has been, they'd have fired their offensive line coach or offensive coordinator by now.

Getting the thread somewhat back on topic... I'll repeat that I don't think Graham is going anywhere anytime soon and that I haven't heard anything to suggest that he wants out or that the team wants him gone. I have also not heard anyone affiliated with the team suggest that his recovery from this injury is set to take any longer than the average recovery for this type of injury. I guess we'll find out if it does or not, but I haven't heard anything to suggest that it will.

AGREE 100%, nice to see someone is watching the games :P

 

[Uhsplit]

Dude Wilson has been getting the ball out 0.6 seconds faster than he was before that is the big change. He is still getting hit and Britt falls for every first move, Sweezy is a headcase still and Okung is still a off sides machine, Gilliam is just a joke for a RT. Lewis is a massive upgrade from the POS we had at Center before who Cable picked as better than Lewis ( remember that ). Is the oline playing better as a group? maybe a little but the BIG difference is how fast Russ is getting the ball out. Go back and watch the All 22 film and you will see had Russ still been holding onto the ball that Extra .6 seconds the Sacks would still be there at an alarming pace.

So the current group is giving Russel Just enough time but he is still getting hammered when he throws even though he is getting the ball out FASTER than he EVER HAS IN HIS CAREER lmao.

Cable is trash and has handcuffed this team for 4 years. Time to move on to some new blood that has something to offer or TEACH this line. I stand by what i said because the only "assumption" i made was that Cable gave the FO and Pete Bad info think about Nowak over Lewis people, that was CABLE'S choice. Makes you wonder what other choices he made that has hurt this team. Remember They made Nowak a STARTER over all the other centers on this team and he is not even on the team any more. WTF kind of vision for talent is that? that would be ZERO VISION lmao.

As an example, if Cable wants Lewis to start and Pete wants Nowak to start it is your contention that Cable overrules Pete on this?

 

[chf]

Wilson himself doesn't even agree with you Screamin'.

Heh, nice followup PA jab btw with the 'not only are people who disagree with me teh stupidz, but they obviously don't watch the games.

In this streak, there was exactly ONE play where Russ took a big hit and threw the long TD to Baldwin (stunting Steeler LB), so no he's NOT getting hit on every play, and it's NOT JUST him getting the ball out earlier. That IS a factor, but so is the line and RB's doing a better job picking up stuntz and blitzers and handling their business.

Can Russ stand back there for six seconds in a clean pocket every down? No. This is not the 90's Cowboys line.

But you're simply delusional if you think they're not playing better than they were earlier this year.

The answer to the question I posed you was YES.

You're still starting at your conclusion (Cable sucks!) and working backwards.

It's lazy thinking.

Now if you want to argue that Callahan or some other person you haven't yet identified would be BETTER than Cable, then make that argument.

But Cable got to where he is by actually, you know, coaching successful offensive lines.

 

[Screamin12th]

As an example, if Cable wants Lewis to start and Pete wants Nowak to start it is your contention that Cable overrules Pete on this?

Pete has stated many times that the Oline is Cables thing and he lets him deal with it. This is nothing new, to be honest now that i think about it i believe Pete was making sure when he said this to protect his own butt if things went bad LMAO!!!!

 

[Screamin12th]

Wilson himself doesn't even agree with you Screamin'.

Heh, nice followup PA jab btw with the 'not only are people who disagree with me teh stupidz, but they obviously don't watch the games.

In this streak, there was exactly ONE play where Russ took a big hit and threw the long TD to Baldwin (stunting Steeler LB), so no he's NOT getting hit on every play, and it's NOT JUST him getting the ball out earlier. That IS a factor, but so is the line and RB's doing a better job picking up stuntz and blitzers and handling their business.

Can Russ stand back there for six seconds in a clean pocket every down? No. This is not the 90's Cowboys line.

But you're simply delusional if you think they're not playing better than they were earlier this year.

The answer to the question I posed you was YES.

You're still starting at your conclusion (Cable sucks!) and working backwards.

It's lazy thinking.

Now if you want to argue that Callahan or some other person you haven't yet identified would be BETTER than Cable, then make that argument.

But Cable got to where he is by actually, you know, coaching successful offensive lines.

Wilson is getting hit on most of his drop backs, wtf are you watching? continue to blow hot air because the more you talk the easier it is to see you are not paying attention. Hey it's ok we know you are excited the Hawks are winning again and you jump up and down on every play losing focus :P but for someone who has been watching the Hawks since 1976 and who now has been watching the All 22 coaches film for a couple season i can tell you for a FACT this is the worst oline EVER the 2nd worst? last season, the 3rd worst? the season before that lol.

Wilson has taken 317 hits ( this includes sacks ), 2nd most in the NFL and the pace at which he has been hit ( percentage of plays ) has NOT dropped. His sacks have gone down but the Hits have stayed pretty much the same.

Do some stats and fact finding it's really easy to do. I am not trying to mock you i am just putting out info that you obviously do not have you should thank me.

 

[chf]

Wilson is getting hit on most of his drop backs, wtf are you watching? continue to blow hot air because the more you talk the easier it is to see you are not paying attention. Hey it's ok we know you are excited the Hawks are winning again and you jump up and down on every play losing focus :P but for someone who has been watching the Hawks since 1976 and who now has been watching the All 22 coaches film for a couple season i can tell you for a FACT this is the worst oline EVER the 2nd worst? last season, the 3rd worst? the season before that lol.

Wilson has taken 317 hits ( this includes sacks ), 2nd most in the NFL and the pace at which he has been hit ( percentage of plays ) has NOT dropped. His sacks have gone down but the Hits have stayed pretty much the same.

Do some stats and fact finding it's really easy to do. I am not trying to mock you i am just putting out info that you obviously do not have you should thank me.

Slow your roll there buddy. I too have been watching since '76. So you can stop with the condescension. Hey, there's LOTS of middle ground for reasonable people to agree here. You want to argue that this is the worst O-line in team history? Okay, that's probably reasonable, and I wouldn't quibble with it much. But that's not what I asked you. I asked you if the line had improved.

And I'm not 'jumping up and down,' more PA sidetracks with that kind of nonsense. I'm the one arguing that the team should make slow measured decisions about what it's doing, that only shvtty franchises are reactionary and make changes for changes sake.

I've been consistent with that angle, whether we're talking about Cable, or Bevell, or whomever else.

You want to get rid of Cable? Fine. Identify someone BETTER (you claim Callahan) and put a plan into effect to get that guy. Is he even available? Is he interested in working with this team, and this front office? Would his philosophy fit in with Pete?

So, no, I'm not losing focus.

The line play HAS improved. Measurably. If you want to actually link to some stats that say that in the last five games Russ has being HIT just as much as earlier in the year, I'll keep an open mind. But I'm doubtful. Even highly skeptical.

You made the assertion. Back it up.

You watching the All-22 is not backing it up.

 

[chf]

And let's take the Vikings game.

Seahawks vs. Vikings - Box Score - December 6, 2015 - ESPN

This shows that Wilson was hit 4 times in the game.

Your assertion was that Wilson is being hit on 'most' of his drop backs.

4/27 is not 'most.' It's not even close.

Or let's use the Steeler game

Steelers vs. Seahawks - Box Score - November 29, 2015 - ESPN

That shows 5/30 attempts

'Most?'

What you got? Should I keep going back through the good streak?

 

[Uhsplit]

Pete has stated many times that the Oline is Cables thing and he lets him deal with it. This is nothing new, to be honest now that i think about it i believe Pete was making sure when he said this to protect his own butt if things went bad LMAO!!!!

So, as an example if Pete wants Nowak to start over Cable wanting Lewis to start, Tom wins that argument according to you. That surprises me but it must be because of the drugs you say I am on.
As I said earlier, Pete loves working with TC and Tom is not going anywhere if Pete has anything to say about it.
Carroll's faith in Cable paying off for Seahawks - HeraldNet.com

 

[chf]

Now let's compare to an earlier season game.

Seahawks vs. Bengals - Box Score - October 11, 2015 - ESPN

Cincinatti his Russ 10 times (4 sacks on top of that.) Carlos Dunlap has 6 by his lonesome.

10/23, now that's still not 'most'. If you add in the 4 sacks it is, but that's further to MY argument, not yours, that the O-line has played better.

The Steelers got to Wilson twice, and the Vikings once. Even adding those numbers onto the hits, you're still woefully short of 'most.'

 

[Uhsplit]

Callahan has a 1st rounder at LT, 3rd at LG, 4th at C, 1st at RG, and a 3rd at RT. He also has a 3rd and a 4th on IR as I believe they were originally starters.
Callahan's OL eats over $25M of cap space counting the 2 starters on IR.
Cable has no starters on IR and his OL eats about $12.6M of the cap.
To think Callahan could come in and replace Cable and do worlds better is foolish thinking. Maybe my train of thought is messed up because of the drugs you say I am on.
IIRC, Cable has had a top 5 rushing game for every year he has been an OL coach.

 

[Uhsplit]

Callahan has a 1st rounder at LT, 3rd at LG, 4th at C, 1st at RG, and a 3rd at RT. He also has a 3rd and a 4th on IR as I believe they were originally starters.
Callahan's OL eats over $25M of cap space counting the 2 starters on IR.
Cable has no starters on IR and his OL eats about $12.6M of the cap.
To think Callahan could come in and replace Cable and do worlds better is foolish thinking. Maybe my train of thought is messed up because of the drugs you say I am on.
IIRC, Cable has had a top 5 rushing game for every year he has been an OL coach.

 

[SonnyCID]

Callahan has a 1st rounder at LT, 3rd at LG, 4th at C, 1st at RG, and a 3rd at RT. He also has a 3rd and a 4th on IR as I believe they were originally starters.
Callahan's OL eats over $25M of cap space counting the 2 starters on IR.
Cable has no starters on IR and his OL eats about $12.6M of the cap.
To think Callahan could come in and replace Cable and do worlds better is foolish thinking. Maybe my train of thought is messed up because of the drugs you say I am on.
IIRC, Cable has had a top 5 rushing game for every year he has been an OL coach.

And a UDFA guard that would have been a 1st round pick if not for some drama right before the draft.

 

[Uhsplit]

And a UDFA guard that would have been a 1st round pick if not for some drama right before the draft.

I forgot about that. My point is we all have to play the hand we are dealt. Right now TC is the Assistant HC, OL Coach and I expect to see him remain in that position until the end of the season at the least.
Fans that believe in the program that Pete runs should stand behind Cable. Pete demands a quality run game and Cable provides it. For the most part, the pass blocking is terrible but that is the hand we are dealt.
Take it for what it is worth, but Football Outsiders has positive ratings for the OL in the rushing game and negative ratings in the passing game.FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2015 OFFENSIVE LINES
The focus of our OL is the run game. If folks can bite onto that, then you would have to agree that Cable has done an admiral job. We don't get to have it all. Concessions must be made to remain successful. We are smack dab up against the cap this year.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I forgot about that. My point is we all have to play the hand we are dealt. Right now TC is the Assistant HC, OL Coach and I expect to see him remain in that position until the end of the season at the least.
Fans that believe in the program that Pete runs should stand behind Cable. Pete demands a quality run game and Cable provides it. For the most part, the pass blocking is terrible but that is the hand we are dealt.
Take it for what it is worth, but Football Outsiders has positive ratings for the OL in the rushing game and negative ratings in the passing game.FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2015 OFFENSIVE LINES
The focus of our OL is the run game. If folks can bite onto that, then you would have to agree that Cable has done an admiral job. We don't get to have it all. Concessions must be made to remain successful. We are smack dab up against the cap this year.

Nice post Uhsplit. Speaking for myself I don't want to see any changes in the coaching staff, but I would like to see OL drafted that are more well rounded in the future.

 

[blstoker]

 

[HaroldSeattle]

That would be awesome, but I'll have to see it first. That's a bad ass injury to come back from.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

That's great news on his rehab, would love to see him on the field opening game. Let's just hope JG doesn't rush back to quickly and can't get to 100% all season.