Jimmy Graham

[Uhsplit]

Cable gave them Bad info that's why. They trusted Cables input more than they should have, Looking at the crap he has did with the oline does not earn him the right to judge talent. No Olineman that had a history in that position has improved under his coaching. Sure these converted DL have shown improvement but thats because that is all they COULD do. Now take a player that is all ready talented on the offensive line and Cable has done ZERO to make them better. Even Sweezy is regressing now.

I pretty much completely disagree with your assumptions, which is exactly what they are...assumptions.

 

[Uhsplit]

Unlike Cary Williams with this defense, I don't think that Jimmy Graham is a bad fit with this offense. I agree with flyerhawk that the issue was poor offensive line play. There was either no time for Wilson to throw, no passing lanes (especially up the middle) or such poor offensive line play that it forced the Seahawks to either keep Graham back as a blocker, which is clearly not his strength, or to replace Graham with a better blocking tight end, taking him away as an option altogether. I believe that with the way the offensive line is playing now, he would have been able to have a much bigger impact, which we were beginning to see before he got hurt against Pittsburgh. If the offensive line can continue to improve and play at this current level or better next year, I think we'll see the trade for Graham as a good move.

As for why Lewis wasn't starting earlier in the season... I got the impression from interviews I've read that the Seahawks wanted him to work on his communication with his fellow offensive linemen. I can't remember exactly where I read it, it might have been an interview with Pete Carroll posted on mynorthwest.com, but that seems to be the reason. Given how poorly Nowak played, I don't know if Lewis could have done any worse, but I guess I can understand the reasoning for not getting Lewis in there sooner if that's what it was.

Spot on and yes, it has been reported recently that Lewis' problem earlier was a lack of communication with the OL in assigning blocking responsibilities. Apparently Lewis has now become much more vocal and his understanding the proper assignment and vocalizing it to the other OL men has been greatly improved.

 

[chf]

As for why they tried out Nowak, someone local wrote a blurb about the answer. Apparently Lewis was VERRRRRY quiet and reserved. They worked with him on making calls, taking charge of the group, and he wasn't doing it.

Nowak had the physical attributes, and apparently was bright enough, and had no problem being loud.

Apparently Lewis has been working on his volume, and assertiveness, and VIOLA! Back in the starter's role.

Some positions you just gotta be able to yell stuff out.

But hey, let's say it was Cable, that's more fun!

 

[chf]

As for why Lewis wasn't starting earlier in the season... I got the impression from interviews I've read that the Seahawks wanted him to work on his communication with his fellow offensive linemen. I can't remember exactly where I read it, it might have been an interview with Pete Carroll posted on mynorthwest.com, but that seems to be the reason. Given how poorly Nowak played, I don't know if Lewis could have done any worse, but I guess I can understand the reasoning for not getting Lewis in there sooner if that's what it was.

Beat me to the punch. Forget where I saw it too.

But it was 100% his communicating 'skills.'

 

[chf]

News Tribune article:

Cable changed centers. The coaches got alarmed late last season when Patrick Lewis, whom the team had signed off Cleveland’s practice squad in October, had issues in communication filling in for the injured Unger in a game the Seahawks won against the depleted Cardinals. That stuck in the coaches’ heads through this preseason, so they shoved Lewis down to third string and inserted the unproven Nowak to replace Unger.

Nowak had even more communication problems than Lewis did. Plus, Nowak had trouble recognizing trick defensive fronts and the array of blitzes Seattle was seeing each week. Since going back to Lewis on Oct. 18 against Carolina, the line’s calls have become quicker, cleaner and more accurate, as Lewis has better recognized the defenses.

“Just more consistency,” Cable said of the difference with Lewis.

Carroll said Monday: “We thought he might have been struggling a little bit with the communications and all that. We wondered if that was going to be an issue going into this year. And that’s not an issue. That’s an area that he’s really improved at, and we have a lot of confidence in him.

“The guys are playing with confidence, because it all starts right there up front, in the middle.”


Read more here: How Seahawks’ O-line has U-turned itself, Seattle’s season

 

[HaroldSeattle]

All I know is Lewis played pretty good last year, was a bit shocked to see he was on the bubble in the off season. Whatever communications limits he had they paled IMO to having some rookie who was actually a defensive player come in and start at center. Let's just chalk it up as a mistake, that what the Seahawks have done.

 

[chf]

All I know is Lewis played pretty good last year, was a bit shocked to see he was on the bubble in the off season. Whatever communications limits he had they paled IMO to having some rookie who was actually a defensive player come in and start at center. Let's just chalk it up as a mistake, that what the Seahawks have done.

Reading between the lines, if Lewis hadn't raised his volume, he'd probably still be riding the pines. Center making calls is sort of... well... necessary.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Reading between the lines, if Lewis hadn't raised his volume, he'd probably still be riding the pines. Center making calls is sort of... well... necessary.

Seemed to make the calls just fine last year....I just saying.

 

[Uhsplit]

Seemed to make the calls just fine last year....I just saying.

That is a little perplexing isn't it? Only input I can think of is the line was more stable last year with much fewer parts in new positions.

 

[dude82]

Seemed to make the calls just fine last year....I just saying.

In the article that chf posted, it says that the coaches first noticed it back in October of last year, so I have to agree with Uh's assessment that it was probably less noticeable to us because the rest of the line was fairly stable (stable being a relative term with this position group for the past decade).

Regardless, he seems to have fixed the problem now and it shows in the improved offensive line play over the past month. Going from 31 sacks in the first seven weeks to 7 sacks in the next 5 weeks is an improvement I never would have expected with this group.

 

[Screamin12th]

I pretty much completely disagree with your assumptions, which is exactly what they are...assumptions.

What that Cable gave them bad info? because that is the only assumption in there, the rest is based off fact. Okung is no stud but he was one before although injury prone. Unger was a stud also ( also injury prone ) but he regressed eacxh year and the team felt he was expendable. Moffit got worse every year here. Carp started to play better but i think we all know why that was ( Contract year ). yeah Cable has not made a College olineman better, he has made College Dlineman into survicable Olineman. Thats his only saving grace. Would bet dollars to doughnuts that Bill Callahan could turn this group we have now into a top 10 Oline.

 

[chf]

So if they regress, it's Cable's fault, but if they finally come together and play as a group, that's not Cable, it's something else.

That's logical?

 

[SilverFalco8]

I never thought Seattle was a good fit for him. It's a run first team.

 

[Screamin12th]

So if they regress, it's Cable's fault, but if they finally come together and play as a group, that's not Cable, it's something else.

That's logical?

when he has coached players with a history of playing on the oline THEY HAVE regressed. When he coaches players that have no history or very limited history they get better. Do you not understand what i am saying or is it above your logic level? It's easier to teach a child how to add than it is to teach a child that knows how to add to do calculus. Understand? He seems to not be able to take players who are more advanced in their field to a new level. It's like he doesn't have anything to offer them to help them grow other than the basics that the more advanced players all ready know. He will make the less knowledgeable players better/good but not great, he does not make good to great players better. Matter of fact his history here as proven that they have regressed.

 

[chf]

when he has coached players with a history of playing on the oline THEY HAVE regressed. When he coaches players that have no history or very limited history they get better. Do you not understand what i am saying or is it above your logic level? It's easier to teach a child how to add than it is to teach a child that knows how to add to do calculus. Understand? He seems to not be able to take players who are more advanced in their field to a new level. It's like he doesn't have anything to offer them to help them grow other than the basics that the more advanced players all ready know. He will make the less knowledgeable players better/good but not great, he does not make good to great players better. Matter of fact his history here as proven that they have regressed.

Hey, don't throw down the intelligence card, when you have difficulty understanding the difference between opinion and fact. Unless you're redefining 'proven,' to mean something else.

Hmmm, what could be some other reasons why O linemen would regress? Lack of continuity on the line because of the philosophy of the management team (read budget invested in O line)? Injuries? Age?

You're starting at your conclusion and working backwards. Tom Cable sucks, now what breadcrumbs can I follow backwards to support that assertion?

And to be perfectly clear, YOU COULD BE RIGHT! There is that possibility. Tom Cable could be just a huge fraud who can teach elementary math, but not calculus. He could have bamboozled his way into a long respected career in the NFL, by, well, somehow by gosh!

But there's PLENTY of other perfectly reasonable, and quite frankly more simple (simple answer is usually the best one) reasons why some of the O linemen have 'regressed' under Cable.

As a group, the current O line (including veterans like Okung) are playing better NOW than they were at the beginning of the season.

YES or NO?

Lets start there.

And please leave the facepalm emoticon out, you're embarrassing yourself with that one.

 

[chf]

As a followup Screamin,

in order for our veteran O line to have NOT had members regress, then we'd have had to match the FA offers to guys like Giacomini and Carpenter, who are making roughly 10 million per year between the two of them in NY.

So, what more promising players would you have had us jetison to pay to keep those two guys on our O line, so that Okung wouldn't 'regress' by playing with a bunch of rookies and D line converts?

The REASON that teaching 1 + 1 = 2 is valuable to this organization, is because they've made the decision to NOT resign expensive O line talent that isn't top shelf.

The most obvious guy who'd have walked away if we'd kept the two average NFL starters above is Wagner, because we simply wouldn't have had the $'s to extend him.

 

[Uhsplit]

I never thought Seattle was a good fit for him. It's a run first team.

Cable is a run 1st coach and has coached OL's into the top 5 running games consistently.

 

[JMR]

I never thought Seattle was a good fit for him. It's a run first team.

Oh you're definitely not alone, but he was fitting in ok here. Unfortunate that he went down just as the O was coming together and putting up big numbers. I heard -- think it was right before his last game -- that he was targeted 24% of the time in our offense vs 19% in NO last year. He was also averaging 2 more yards per catch here than in NO last year. The dip really came in the red zone here, and our entire O was terrible inside the 20 for the first half of the year.

I think this first season will be judged as one that didn't live up to expectations, but it wasn't a failure like the Percy Harvin thing and there's good reason to maintain high expectations for next season.

 

[Uhsplit]

What that Cable gave them bad info? because that is the only assumption in there, the rest is based off fact. Okung is no stud but he was one before although injury prone. Unger was a stud also ( also injury prone ) but he regressed eacxh year and the team felt he was expendable. Moffit got worse every year here. Carp started to play better but i think we all know why that was ( Contract year ). yeah Cable has not made a College olineman better, he has made College Dlineman into survicable Olineman. Thats his only saving grace. Would bet dollars to doughnuts that Bill Callahan could turn this group we have now into a top 10 Oline.

I have to break your post down bit by bit.
Okung is no stud but he was one before although injury prone. You are blaming his OL coach for the injuries.
Unger was a stud also ( also injury prone ) but he regressed eacxh year and the team felt he was expendable. He was expendable because he was injury prone, of which you are again blaming his OL coach for that. I have never heard than Max had regressed as a player, on injury issues and his pay scale were knocks.
Moffit got worse every year here. No he didn't. He had no heart for the game and never improved. He did not improve at Kansas City, not Philly. Shitty player.
Carp started to play better but i think we all know why that was ( Contract year ). Carp is an example of a player improving over time which you say Cable nas no one student that has improved under his guidance.
yeah Cable has not made a College olineman better,. Again, Carp, Sweezy, looks like Britt is better this year than last, Lewis improving as is Gilliam.

Pete absolutely adores TC. He ain't going anywhere if Pete has anything to say about it. He is the perfect OL coach for a Pete Carroll coached team.

 

[Screamin12th]

No i DID NOT blame the Oline coach for injuries LMAO that is ignorance to even think that. Okung was a stud when he came here although he was injury prone. That does not in ANYWAY mean Cable made him that way WTF dude lmao. His Skill as a blocker never increased and has regressed. You are grasping for things that are not there Uhsplit. Okung was here BEFORE Cable and improved but has not improved under cable and has regressed. ( this is the BIGGEST tell-tail sign )

Unger was a stud but he also NEVER IMPROVED and actually regressed as a blocker which made him expendable because the gap between him and the others was not that large. Become injury prone did not help.

Moffit NEVER improved here, This is 100% correct. You can bring other teams into it if you want but that has nothing to do with my comment. He NEVER improved here end of story.

Carp never improved "over time." He had 1 good year of "ok" play and what a shocker it was his CONTRACT year. We have seen this happen HUNDREDS of times in the NFL. Players always seem to have their best season in contract years.

Sweezy was a College DL not a olineman. Britt was a good college olineman, he played ok in his rookie season but was total and utter crap this season and they moved him to LG where his play has been ok at best matching his rookie season.

Your retort is so full of holes it's not even funny. The way you try to explain it makes me wonder what drugs you are on. Like the part where out of left field you make it sound as if i am blaming Cable for injury prone players LMAO wtf?

Still believe 100% with out a doubt that Bill Callahan could make this group light years better than Cable EVER has.