I don't think any teams are gonna take Bevell

[WizardHawk]

I admit that Bevell frustrates the hell out of me with the play calling and the lack of being able to get his offense to generate points in the first half, but at the same time I will give credit where credit is due. Bevell has helped shape RW into the gamer that he is, he did give us a SB victory and the offense in the second half of the season was red hot. I think this up coming season we're going to see a wide open offense.

I wish I could share your optimism on the new offense, however after Lynch came back the offense went back to looking placid. As long as there is a legit running threat Carroll just won't let the offense go.

We all saw the amount of shorter passes that turned into big gains/explosive plays in that stretch without a high caliber rusher. They felt more dangerous in the red zone and it just seemed like they had more plays open up.

But Carroll has his philosophy and I don't see it changing much.

And if that's the case they better get a LOT more aggressive on the defense again. They can't have the kind of defense they had last year and make it with their same old offense.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I wish I could share your optimism on the new offense, however after Lynch came back the offense went back to looking placid. As long as there is a legit running threat Carroll just won't let the offense go.

We all saw the amount of shorter passes that turned into big gains/explosive plays in that stretch without a high caliber rusher. They felt more dangerous in the red zone and it just seemed like they had more plays open up.

But Carroll has his philosophy and I don't see it changing much.

And if that's the case they better get a LOT more aggressive on the defense again. They can't have the kind of defense they had last year and make it with their same old offense.

You could be right and I can't argue those facts but maybe PC will start a new trend. Rawls and the offense clicked well and was scoring a good amount of points, so maybe PC will allow Bevel to change to that style of offense. Of course easier said then done when he's had a certain type of game plan that worked for years.

 

[chf]

I swear, is there another fan base of a team that has been in the playoffs for 4 straight years including a SB win and another SB appearance over that span so entirely lost over some notion that their coaches suck?

Actually I think it's more common that you might think. On the board a few of us used to frequent before coming here, SF fans were pretty divided on the 9ers coaches too. That was during Harbaugh's terrific run, and the mercurial Kap of course. Some of the pissing matches between 9er fans over the coordinators were pretty awesome.

I've even seen some pretty good harangues from fans of long time powers like the Steelers.

Having said that, I think that long time Hawks fans are indeed still getting used to long term prosperity.

 

[DunceKaep]

Bevell and Cable. We on the outside have NO idea what happens on the inside. NONE.
Besides US fans arguing, have any of us EVER heard of an inside squabble between the two? NO.

I had my doubts about Bevell, but I have regressed. If their was truly a problem, our true leader RW would have spoken. RW has not. Now, who was the head of the INDY O when Peyton was in charge?

My point is, RW will have say in the O, just saying. Not at ALL comparing him(RW) to anyone.
I just think RW does have input, and is gaining more input, Bevell or NOT.

How can Bevell help the Hawks Offense even more? Get input from RW, which I'm sure is already happening, as with Cable, it is a FACT he sucks at pass protection, and excels at rushing, so RW and Bevell need to all work together, again, which I say is already happening.

Just get on board with each other before the game starts, rather than some time later.\\

How about some quick starts?

 

[dude82]

I wish I could share your optimism on the new offense, however after Lynch came back the offense went back to looking placid. As long as there is a legit running threat Carroll just won't let the offense go.

We all saw the amount of shorter passes that turned into big gains/explosive plays in that stretch without a high caliber rusher. They felt more dangerous in the red zone and it just seemed like they had more plays open up.

But Carroll has his philosophy and I don't see it changing much.

And if that's the case they better get a LOT more aggressive on the defense again. They can't have the kind of defense they had last year and make it with their same old offense.

Looking back, I think a combination of things prevented the offense from being particularly productive when Lynch played this season. First and foremost, it wasn't until after Lynch got hurt that the offensive line finally got its crap together and stopped playing like the worst offensive line in the league. I think it can also be speculated that, even before Lynch got hurt he wasn't the same player that he had been in previous years. He only had a couple of games all season where he looked like himself. Some of that might have been due to the aforementioned worst offensive line in the league, but he definitely didn't seem like the player we'd known him to be up to that point.

That we didn't change the offense with him in there isn't all that surprising. When a great player is on his last legs, it's not always easy for the team to recognize it or to want to believe it. They went away from the type of offense they ran with Lynch after he got hurt because Rawls (and, later, Michael) isn't Lynch and because the improvement in the offensive line allowed them to do more things than they could before. It forced them to change things up. Had Lynch stayed healthy all year, I still think the offense would have gotten better because the offensive line got better, but they wouldn't have been forced to rely more heavily on the passing game and, in turn, might not have seen things open up the way they did in the running game.

Now when he came back in the playoffs, I think they were too eager to get him involved again and it threw everything off offensively, because, again, they didn't recognize that he wasn't the same player and probably just figured all that rest and recovery time he had would bring back vintage Lynch.

With Lynch no longer in the picture and no temptation to run the offense the way they've been running it for the past four years, they're free to get back to what was working for them when Rawls and Michael were back there. That's assuming, of course, that they aren't forced to go back to square one on the offensive line again. I think that, more than anything else, will be the deciding factor in how our offense operates next season. If they lose a couple of guys on the line and have to shuffle the deck again, we could be right back to where we were in the first half of 2015. I don't know about you, but I'm ready for an offseason where the offensive line isn't a top priority and for at least one season where the biggest question about the team isn't how long it'll take for the offensive line to gel or how far into the season the offensive line will make it before its first major injury.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Its very simple.

Positives are attributed to the players.

Negatives are attributed to the coordinators.

Actually I disagree strongly with that..... If a player is not performing he's held accountable ... coaching staff should be no different.... Defensive and offensive coordinators have HUGE impacts on the outcomes of games... As a player you have to run what THEY call ... If your a great pass rushing linebacker and I stick you in a cover 2 your not gonna get a lot of sacks are you ? No your not ... Coordinators have HUGE impacts on the outcomes of games.... I think we should all know that VERY EFFIN WELL...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Bevell and Cable. We on the outside have NO idea what happens on the inside. NONE.
Besides US fans arguing, have any of us EVER heard of an inside squabble between the two? NO.

I had my doubts about Bevell, but I have regressed. If their was truly a problem, our true leader RW would have spoken. RW has not. Now, who was the head of the INDY O when Peyton was in charge?

My point is, RW will have say in the O, just saying. Not at ALL comparing him(RW) to anyone.
I just think RW does have input, and is gaining more input, Bevell or NOT.

How can Bevell help the Hawks Offense even more? Get input from RW, which I'm sure is already happening, as with Cable, it is a FACT he sucks at pass protection, and excels at rushing, so RW and Bevell need to all work together, again, which I say is already happening.

Just get on board with each other before the game starts, rather than some time later.\\

How about some quick starts?

When has Russ every thrown anyone under the bus though ? He won't ... That's what leaders do... I think the biggest thing that could happen if we keep Bevell is just allow Russ full audible control and set him free to totally lead the offense... Then if Bevell tries something stupid Russ can override anything ... I trust Russ to run this offense 100 percent....

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

But then who would we blame when the offense fails to execute?

I don't like that argument ... So basically every O-coordiantor is good and they should never be blamed for anything.... ?? How dare we as fans blame a coach for anything!!!! ON a side note I was pissed at Coach Carroll for not kicking that field goal in the first half vs Carolina.... I STRONGLY disagreed with that 4th down call .... Coaches do sometimes make bad call's ... They are human after all ..

 

[SonnyCID]

I don't like that argument ... So basically every O-coordiantor is good and they should never be blamed for anything.... ?? How dare we as fans blame a coach for anything!!!! ON a side note I was pissed at Coach Carroll for not kicking that field goal in the first half vs Carolina.... I STRONGLY disagreed with that 4th down call .... Coaches do sometimes make bad call's ... They are human after all ..

Not every coordinator is good.

But also not every coordinator has developed on of the best QBs in the league and coming off a year where they had a top 5 offense.

What's the gripe with Bevell? Slow starts? Because if that's the case then he should be heralded for his adjustments both before the 2 min warning and after the half.

 

[SonnyCID]

Actually I disagree strongly with that..... If a player is not performing he's held accountable ... coaching staff should be no different.... Defensive and offensive coordinators have HUGE impacts on the outcomes of games... As a player you have to run what THEY call ... If your a great pass rushing linebacker and I stick you in a cover 2 your not gonna get a lot of sacks are you ? No your not ... Coordinators have HUGE impacts on the outcomes of games.... I think we should all know that VERY EFFIN WELL...

The issue is that every time something doesn't work we second guess the coaching. But there are a number of things that contribute to a failed play: lack of execution from your players, good execution from opposing players, good coaching from the other side. But the only one that seems to get talked about when plays fail for Seattle's offense, is Bevell.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

The issue is that every time something doesn't work we second guess the coaching. But there are a number of things that contribute to a failed play: lack of execution from your players, good execution from opposing players, good coaching from the other side. But the only one that seems to get talked about when plays fail for Seattle's offense, is Bevell.

Oh no doubt, sometimes the perfect play call fails from poor execution... NO doubt about it.. I wouldn't argue that for a second... with Bevell it's how he call's games that make you scratch your head... One solution is just allowing Russ to do whatever he wants audible wise...

 

[chf]

Actually I disagree strongly with that..... If a player is not performing he's held accountable ... coaching staff should be no different.... Defensive and offensive coordinators have HUGE impacts on the outcomes of games... As a player you have to run what THEY call ... If your a great pass rushing linebacker and I stick you in a cover 2 your not gonna get a lot of sacks are you ? No your not ... Coordinators have HUGE impacts on the outcomes of games.... I think we should all know that VERY EFFIN WELL...

Right, so the larger point that if Cable/Bevell/whomever are being THAT incompetent, then don't we have to question the leadership of John and Pete?

 

[WizardHawk]

Oh no doubt, sometimes the perfect play call fails from poor execution... NO doubt about it.. I wouldn't argue that for a second... with Bevell it's how he call's games that make you scratch your head... One solution is just allowing Russ to do whatever he wants audible wise...

There isn't just pass/fail on any given play. Sometimes a 3y play should have been a 20y but still isn't classified as a fail. A no gain is far better than a turnover.

The point is we don't know what the play call is. We do know what happens after the snap, but was Wilson given two plays and he adjusted into one incorrectly? Did someone miss the call and cost the play because they went the wrong way? Coaches will tell you sometimes early a play is called that you know isn't going to work, but you run it to set up something later on. Hope you are 'training' them to react a certain way so you can entirely exploit it next time you run it.

Offense takes 11 people all on the same page and all executing the calls given. I don't give a shit how much football you watch, or even if you played ball in HS, you have NO way to know where a play broke down because it was simply the wrong play, a botched presnap read, or badly executed play.

You act like we should just fire the OC and let Wilson entirely run the offense. He's not anywhere near ready for that. I've seen him appear to struggle with reading the defense many times. He has a gift of making something out of a bad play, but that's a far cry from turning over the full offense to him.

Seattle won the freaking SB with Bevell calling plays and leading/teaching that offense. They nearly won it two straight years. Something that doesn't happen in modern football. He's doing FAR more right than wrong.

Of course Bevell has made bad play calls. There isn't a person in the league that does that job that doesn't wish they could take back at least 1/3 of their calls. Beating defenses on every play isn't realistic. Not in today's league.

It just seems obvious enough to some of us that if instead of this anger toward Bevell you all spent more time pounding the desk asking for Carroll to take off the limiters and let the damned offense play you'd be addressing the principle reason this offense is often slow, ineffective, and boring. Want more red zone scores? Stop being pussies and go after defenses. Let them play ball. Let Bevell have MORE say in the calls, not less. He's proven he can make it work.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Right, so the larger point that if Cable/Bevell/whomever are being THAT incompetent, then don't we have to question the leadership of John and Pete?

You have a valid point.... I think that's why I feel Pete while being a great coach sometimes show's incredible loyalty with the coaching staff... Not so much with the players though, if a player does wrong Pete doesn't stand for that for very long...

 

[chf]

You have a valid point.... I think that's why I feel Pete while being a great coach sometimes show's incredible loyalty with the coaching staff... Not so much with the players though, if a player does wrong Pete doesn't stand for that for very long...

Could be. An equally valid explanation is that despite all the hand wringing among us fans, Bevell can actually call a pretty good game.

I get the 'culture' argument, as I've made it myself more than once. Loyalty is a part of that, but then so is production.

J+S get a lot of rope with me. Success is as big a part of the culture here as loyalty. Seattle is a big destination among veteran FA's AND among rookie FA's. Why? Because both groups know they'll get treated fairly.

Coaches? I know less about that, there haven't been a lot of high profile guys (outside of Cable) to come through. But the braintrust CERTAINLY doesn't stand in the way of guys making moves to other organizations. That's part of building that 'culture' too.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

There isn't just pass/fail on any given play. Sometimes a 3y play should have been a 20y but still isn't classified as a fail. A no gain is far better than a turnover.

The point is we don't know what the play call is. We do know what happens after the snap, but was Wilson given two plays and he adjusted into one incorrectly? Did someone miss the call and cost the play because they went the wrong way? Coaches will tell you sometimes early a play is called that you know isn't going to work, but you run it to set up something later on. Hope you are 'training' them to react a certain way so you can entirely exploit it next time you run it.

Offense takes 11 people all on the same page and all executing the calls given. I don't give a shit how much football you watch, or even if you played ball in HS, you have NO way to know where a play broke down because it was simply the wrong play, a botched presnap read, or badly executed play.

You act like we should just fire the OC and let Wilson entirely run the offense. He's not anywhere near ready for that. I've seen him appear to struggle with reading the defense many times. He has a gift of making something out of a bad play, but that's a far cry from turning over the full offense to him.

Seattle won the freaking SB with Bevell calling plays and leading/teaching that offense. They nearly won it two straight years. Something that doesn't happen in modern football. He's doing FAR more right than wrong.

Of course Bevell has made bad play calls. There isn't a person in the league that does that job that doesn't wish they could take back at least 1/3 of their calls. Beating defenses on every play isn't realistic. Not in today's league.

It just seems obvious enough to some of us that if instead of this anger toward Bevell you all spent more time pounding the desk asking for Carroll to take off the limiters and let the damned offense play you'd be addressing the principle reason this offense is often slow, ineffective, and boring. Want more red zone scores? Stop being pussies and go after defenses. Let them play ball. Let Bevell have MORE say in the calls, not less. He's proven he can make it work.

I disagree... Wilson is ABSOLUTELY

There isn't just pass/fail on any given play. Sometimes a 3y play should have been a 20y but still isn't classified as a fail. A no gain is far better than a turnover.

The point is we don't know what the play call is. We do know what happens after the snap, but was Wilson given two plays and he adjusted into one incorrectly? Did someone miss the call and cost the play because they went the wrong way? Coaches will tell you sometimes early a play is called that you know isn't going to work, but you run it to set up something later on. Hope you are 'training' them to react a certain way so you can entirely exploit it next time you run it.

Offense takes 11 people all on the same page and all executing the calls given. I don't give a shit how much football you watch, or even if you played ball in HS, you have NO way to know where a play broke down because it was simply the wrong play, a botched presnap read, or badly executed play.

You act like we should just fire the OC and let Wilson entirely run the offense. He's not anywhere near ready for that. I've seen him appear to struggle with reading the defense many times. He has a gift of making something out of a bad play, but that's a far cry from turning over the full offense to him.

Seattle won the freaking SB with Bevell calling plays and leading/teaching that offense. They nearly won it two straight years. Something that doesn't happen in modern football. He's doing FAR more right than wrong.

Of course Bevell has made bad play calls. There isn't a person in the league that does that job that doesn't wish they could take back at least 1/3 of their calls. Beating defenses on every play isn't realistic. Not in today's league.

It just seems obvious enough to some of us that if instead of this anger toward Bevell you all spent more time pounding the desk asking for Carroll to take off the limiters and let the damned offense play you'd be addressing the principle reason this offense is often slow, ineffective, and boring. Want more red zone scores? Stop being pussies and go after defenses. Let them play ball. Let Bevell have MORE say in the calls, not less. He's proven he can make it work.

I would go as far as to say if Bevell didn't have Wilson his butt would a already been replaced... And I"m not saying let Wilson just run the offense all on his own, obviously we would have a NEW offensive coordinator working with him... One thing Wilson has already proved, he can pick up a playbook VERY quickly, the guy has a very high football IQ ... And i'm not arguing about guy's being on the same page, obviously every play that's vitally important ... I"m talking about how the game is called BY Bevell....

 

[WizardHawk]

I would go as far as to say if Bevell didn't have Wilson his butt would a already been replaced... And I"m not saying let Wilson just run the offense all on his own, obviously we would have a NEW offensive coordinator working with him... One thing Wilson has already proved, he can pick up a playbook VERY quickly, the guy has a very high football IQ ... And i'm not arguing about guy's being on the same page, obviously every play that's vitally important ... I"m talking about how the game is called BY Bevell....

Why bother? According to you we have the worst OC in the history of the league and Wilson is just creative enough to do just enough despite his incompetence to carry us all the way to the SB twice and win it once.

What's the point in having any OC if he's really able to do that? Think about it. We won the SB with the worst OC ever. Just name Wilson the team coach and lets go get 3 more. Who's with me!

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Why bother? According to you we have the worst OC in the history of the league and Wilson is just creative enough to do just enough despite his incompetence to carry us all the way to the SB twice and win it once.

What's the point in having any OC if he's really able to do that? Think about it. We won the SB with the worst OC ever. Just name Wilson the team coach and lets go get 3 more. Who's with me!

We didn't win the Super-Bowl because of Bevell ... lol .... We won it because of Wilson's leadership and one of the greatest defenses in the history of the game... Bevell just saddled up for the ride!! And I never said he was the worst EVER , I can't back that up, i'm sure there have been some pretty effin bad ones if you look at the history of the NFL... But he will always go down as the guy that made the DUMBEST call in the history of the Super-Bowl... That will always be with him wherever he goes.... I also have to watch this guy call screen pass after fucking screen pass, when it's NOT WORKING!!!!! He runs when we should let Wilson take over, he then uses Wilson when were up 17 with 4 minutes left when we can easily just run the clock out... I watch designed Wilson running play's when the game is OVER risking our leader getting hurt .... #@$^ him ... Also let's not forget when Lynch flipped his azz off when he passed the ball 3 times from the 1 yard line ... That was a telling sign....

 

[SonnyCID]

The screen pass argument is dumb. Every team uses screen passes to compensate for poor pass blocking and to set up the run by spreading out LBs. Play calling is not always about getting big yards. It's also about setting up the next move, which is what the screen pass does. No playcaller says, "we're going to throw a screen and get a 40 yd play out of it", they consider just an extension of the run game and any positive yards is a good thing.

 

[SonnyCID]

Oh no doubt, sometimes the perfect play call fails from poor execution... NO doubt about it.. I wouldn't argue that for a second... with Bevell it's how he call's games that make you scratch your head... One solution is just allowing Russ to do whatever he wants audible wise...

How do we know Russell is ready to do that? It took years and years for guys like Manning and Brady to do that.

And how exactly does his game calling make you scratch your head? Is it that he's too conservative? Because that's a philosophy issue, not play calling.