How Soon Does Lebron Regret His Decision?

[Leroy Brown]

[

I'll challenge you

Lol okay

WTF is that? Kids...

I challenge every other Kobe Nuthugger who tries to compare Old Snake to The King

I would have gone with "Mr. Mamba Magoo" personally. Calling me a Nuthugger and coming in guns a blazing. Oh, you are a "NBA" fan. I guess you get to say that your "objective"and you can exclude yourself from any and all "Nutthugging" accusations. As far as debating anything goes, i would come in puffy chest too. Though in my mind, to defend lebron as such, that shit goes both ways.

Still won't start listing Kobe playoff perfomances sans Shaq huh?

My list will be twice as long as yours.

Sure, i think its funny you think that. It wont come anywhere near twice as long. But i think i will throw some logic out there and state that its really subjective what constitutes a great performance. If we are talking just stats (which many narrow minded people do), lines could look oh so great. But Lebrons lines have lead him to 2-3 in the finals (5 finals appearences, 3 loses vs better competition (oh god and oh so close to 4), and getting his ass handed to him by the only real powerhouses he ever faced in the east, take a guess). In fact one of my major criticisms of him being such a great stat guy, but being such a no heart guy. Boy does he love his stats though. I for him. And so many times he fills up the sheet in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd only to disappear in the waning stages of a game where his immense talent could really shine. I could argue all day that the teams Kobe faced in the playoffs completely and utterly shit on the competition that Lebron has faced in his playoff career. But i digress, Lebron loves to pass though, i give him that. But hey lets be real, hes a PG right? Supposed to pass. Anyway Kobe is a SG. I would argue that Kobe could average just as many if not more assists throughout his career then Lebron. People have no idea how good of a passer Kobe is. Kobe regularly puts up flashy highlight reel passes many of which get little to no fanfare because of the dreadful teams he has played on for stretches as , at times, PG. You know i wish someone would do a study on how many missed shots Kobe passed too, especially in the lean years, in fact only in the lean years. Would be nice, cause my god i lost hairs watching those teams miss shot after shot. Yet, Kobes job from the get go was to put up points and in his prime especially, you would be hard pressed to find anyone better then him. And that certainty is not Lebron James. Lebron averages a whole 2 assists per game more then Kobe in career stats according to some stat page i found. . Rebounding not sure, i give Lebron that, i dunno, just cause. Defense. I dunno how many all defensive NBA teams? Dunno really. Or do i? But really, when we talk about these two players its a Maba vs where'd he go?

Here's a tip: press that enter button after about every three to five sentences.

A great playoff performance as the leading guy is a great playoff performance as a leading guy...there isn't as much subjectivity to it as you think. For example, Kobe's all around game was beautiful in the Finals against the Magic. His 50 point game against Denver (even though the Nuggets snickered at the thought of defense) was bigtime. His 50 point game (I think it was Game 6) against Phoenix in the series where he choked away/sabotaged game 7 was amazing. See? It isn't that hard, is it?

Lebron took a huge paycut in Miami as well.


Cool, cept he didnt take a pay cut, he made more money then he ever has winning with those guys. You really think he went to the Heat thinking he would lose money? Seriously ? I dont have to look it up, im sure he made more money while with the heat year by year. And, going back to Cleveland, if nothing else, is a brilliant marketing stunt...lol.

Cool, cept, what you're saying is crap because you can't invalidate the fact that Lebron did take a paycut in Miami (hell, until this year, he's never been the solely highest paid player on his team) by saying he made more because they won and then not use that same logic for his teammates. It makes no sense, like the rest of your post.

As far as throwing a team and organization under the bus, no one tops this:

It was great fodder for Kobes critics to site this situation. As time has moved on, the truth has come out. Fact is Kobe has been a Laker for 19 years, through the good and the bad. Something, well you know. Also, I suggest you read something a little more recent on the lead up to those situations. The great Dr. Buss is a good start.

Ummm, those were the words out of Kobe's mouth. He said that. Those were exact quotes...some of the audio that's on the internet from Kobe himself is particularly treacherous. He threw them under the bus. There's no "truth to come out" as time moved on. There's the audio, right there. You're funny.

Either he choked, or he sabotaged his team...which is worse?

Its funny you site this particular game. I mean, choked? I think thats a tag LBJ owns. Yeah i will give you that one game, what the hell. Sabotage sure, pick your choice.

You mean that one Game 7. We're not even going to talk about the meltdowns against Dallas and Boston.

Or how about that time he publicly wanted to ship out one of the seven footers he rode to back to back titles after Shaq?

Rode Shaq? Ask Shaq Himself if he would have won those titles without Kobe. People who dont follow the Lakers really are funny. So many games that the Lakers never win without Kobe. Laughable, in fact, i just spilled latte.

Jordan wouldn't have won without talented teammates either. That said, they rode Jordan to a title, same way Kobe rode the big fella who was averaging around 40 and 15 in the Finals. As every series went on from the first round to the finals during the Lakers' three peat, Shaq would elevate his performance, and the disparity between his stats and Kobe's by the time the Finals would happen makes it clear who the sidekick was.

It's also kinda hard to say Lebron is Kobe's bitch when he's won almost 2 out of 3 times they've played each other and Bron has better stats in the matchup.
I would have agreed with you until i saw the all-star game last year. Albiet the All star game, Even i cringed as a "old snake" publicly challenged "the king" in front of the world and the games best players. Getting blocked and all, bricking and all, same old bullshit. Yeah , Kobes bitch, and quiet hilarious though i might add. And also, though not a strong point, anytime those two played together in the olympics or basketball whatever its call Kobe always outshined him.

All Star Game?

One more thing...MJ is still the GOAT right now

Yup

but I do know one thing he's done that Lebron has managed not to do yet...lose in the first round.

Ouch lol. Rather lose in the first round then rack up a losing finals record when your supposed to be the self proclaimed "chosen one" or the "king" lol. But hey since You brought up Jordan, did he ever lose in the first round? Lets use that as a control if thats okay with you. Since we can debate on your terms. Whatever i dont care really. Or hey, anyone who follow Jordan tell us. I dunno really.

Then you, sir, are not a competitor. That's so sad...

and yes, MJ has lost in the first round, unlike James.

Yeah, Kobe will have enough of a resume to be considered the #2 two guard of all time when it's all said and done, but let's not start comparing him to James when James has obviously been better throughout his career.

Can someone explain this sentence to me cause i dont even know what it means.

Read it super duper triply slowly this time.

And finally. Lebron aint even the best triple double guy. He aint the best Scorer. He aint the best passer. In fact guys on this board (myself included) dont even think he was better then Bird, and he never will be. He will never beat any of those records mentioned. He will go down as the most talented player to never reach his potential, and Lamar Odom will be right behind him. (still love lamar though lol)

The majority of this board says ridiculous crap all the time...just check the politics forum. Two Finals MVP's, Four NBA MVP trophies, countless All-NBA teams and many All defensive teams (too tired to look it up), with about 6-8 more years to play if he doesn't get hurt and you say he hasn't reached his potential? Well, outside of MJ, who has?

Thanks Leroy, been a while.

I'm here to help.

 

[Black Adam]

It's not the legacy that Lebron an his nut-huggers in here are wanting though , They want him to pass Michael and that is never going to happen

the absolute truth AND a can o' whoopass...

 

[Black Adam]

We already know what our team is, nothing left to do, but make fun of the self proclaimed king that you nuthuggers love to slurp on

kinda funny actually...

"don't dog LeClown...or we'll cry..."

only reason i say that is it seems like there's supposed to be some unwritten rule that if your team isn't in this mix you aren't allowed to talk...

 

[gordontrue]

LeBron losing more Finals than he's won is already shooting down his legacy.

Why is this silly argument so popular?

Finals losses are a positive point on a resume not a negative.

For example, 3 titles in 5 appearances > 3 titles in 3 appearances.
Losing in Finals > losing in any other round of the playoffs.



If Jordan had managed to get to the Finals earlier in his career, but lost to the Lakers... Would that diminish his legacy because he's 6 for 7 instead of 6 for 6? Of course not, it would be all the more impressive.

 

[Wamu]

maybe kevin love regrets more than LeBron. until I see him re-sign in Cleveland im going to consider he bails in offseason anything short of finals. this verbal he gave the cavs wont mean anything when his agent starts getting calls. also LeBron can opt out. maybe they are both on new teams.

You think he bails from Cleveland again short of the Finals when his own expectations heading into the season wasn't even getting to the Finals this year? If so interesting.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Why is this silly argument so popular?

Finals losses are a positive point on a resume not a negative.

For example, 3 titles in 5 appearances > 3 titles in 3 appearances.
Losing in Finals > losing in any other round of the playoffs.



If Jordan had managed to get to the Finals earlier in his career, but lost to the Lakers... Would that diminish his legacy because he's 6 for 7 instead of 6 for 6? Of course not, it would be all the more impressive.

Losing in the Finals is a positive thing? Not to a competitor, and it shouldn't be a positive thing to someone who gets called the GOAT by some.

 

[Leroy Brown]

Losing in the Finals is a positive thing? Not to a competitor, and it shouldn't be a positive thing to someone who gets called the GOAT by some.

Uhh, would you rather lose in the first round or the Finals?

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Uhh, would you rather lose in the first round or the Finals?

Let's not pretend like LBJ's road to the Finals through the East has been as tough as MJ's path back in the day.

 

[Leroy Brown]

Let's not pretend like LBJ's road to the Finals through the East has been as tough as MJ's path back in the day.

Answer the question.

 

[Inimical]

[





WTF is that? Kids...



Still won't start listing Kobe playoff perfomances sans Shaq huh?



Here's a tip: press that enter button after about every three to five sentences.

A great playoff performance as the leading guy is a great playoff performance as a leading guy...there isn't as much subjectivity to it as you think. For example, Kobe's all around game was beautiful in the Finals against the Magic. His 50 point game against Denver (even though the Nuggets snickered at the thought of defense) was bigtime. His 50 point game (I think it was Game 6) against Phoenix in the series where he choked away/sabotaged game 7 was amazing. See? It isn't that hard, is it?




Cool, cept, what you're saying is crap because you can't invalidate the fact that Lebron did take a paycut in Miami (hell, until this year, he's never been the solely highest paid player on his team) by saying he made more because they won and then not use that same logic for his teammates. It makes no sense, like the rest of your post.




Ummm, those were the words out of Kobe's mouth. He said that. Those were exact quotes...some of the audio that's on the internet from Kobe himself is particularly treacherous. He threw them under the bus. There's no "truth to come out" as time moved on. There's the audio, right there. You're funny.



You mean that one Game 7. We're not even going to talk about the meltdowns against Dallas and Boston.



Jordan wouldn't have won without talented teammates either. That said, they rode Jordan to a title, same way Kobe rode the big fella who was averaging around 40 and 15 in the Finals. As every series went on from the first round to the finals during the Lakers' three peat, Shaq would elevate his performance, and the disparity between his stats and Kobe's by the time the Finals would happen makes it clear who the sidekick was.



All Star Game?

One more thing...MJ is still the GOAT right now

Yup



Then you, sir, are not a competitor. That's so sad...

and yes, MJ has lost in the first round, unlike James.



Read it super duper triply slowly this time.



The majority of this board says ridiculous crap all the time...just check the politics forum. Two Finals MVP's, Four NBA MVP trophies, countless All-NBA teams and many All defensive teams (too tired to look it up), with about 6-8 more years to play if he doesn't get hurt and you say he hasn't reached his potential? Well, outside of MJ, who has?



I'm here to help.

Your right Leroy, im wrong. Sorry.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Answer the question.

The Finals obviously, but you don't get a ring for 2nd place. You think Kobe said "at least we made it to the Finals" after losing in 08 to the Celtics? No. Your point is instantly diminished when you consider how easy his path to the Finals has been in the East compared to a path through the West or MJ's path back in the day as well. If you want to give LBJ a badge for participation in order to justify GOAT claims then go right ahead, we're all entitled to our opinion.

 

[Leroy Brown]

The Finals obviously

First thing you've said that made sense all thread. Leave it at that...and stop mistaking "easily better than Kobe" for "GOAT."

 

[trojanfan12]

Why is this silly argument so popular?

Finals losses are a positive point on a resume not a negative.

For example, 3 titles in 5 appearances > 3 titles in 3 appearances.
Losing in Finals > losing in any other round of the playoffs.



If Jordan had managed to get to the Finals earlier in his career, but lost to the Lakers... Would that diminish his legacy because he's 6 for 7 instead of 6 for 6? Of course not, it would be all the more impressive.

It depends on what the argument is. If you are talking about simply getting to the finals as a great achievement (and it is), then yes, it's a positive point on the resume. From that aspect, Kobe, with 7 finals appearance > MJ with 6 > Lebron with 5.

However, when talking about the GOAT, then making it to the finals and losing becomes more of negative point on the resume. Therefore, MJ at 6 for 6 > Kobe at 5 for 7 > Lebron at 2 for 5. This is a big part of why, even if Kobe and/or Lebron manage to get a 6th ring, they still won't pass MJ in most people's minds.

 

[Hambombs]

Losing in the Finals is a positive thing? Not to a competitor, and it shouldn't be a positive thing to someone who gets called the GOAT by some.

What's funny is that he's never been the GOAT

 

[GNG]

Oh yeah, no fucking loyalty.

Loyalty in the NBA?

 

[GNG]

Uhh, would you rather lose in the first round or the Finals?

Neither.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

It depends on what the argument is. If you are talking about simply getting to the finals as a great achievement (and it is), then yes, it's a positive point on the resume. From that aspect, Kobe, with 7 finals appearance > MJ with 6 > Lebron with 5.

However, when talking about the GOAT, then making it to the finals and losing becomes more of negative point on the resume. Therefore, MJ at 6 for 6 > Kobe at 5 for 7 > Lebron at 2 for 5. This is a big part of why, even if Kobe and/or Lebron manage to get a 6th ring, they still won't pass MJ in most people's minds.

James' Finals loss when he was on the Cavs should strictly be viewed as a positive.
Not many thought that team was the best in the East, let alone near good enough to beat the Spurs.


Last year coukd be viewed as a disappointing ending, but not a giant negative on his resume. The Spurs just deserve credit for playing amazing team basketball.


The loss to Dallas though, will always be a big strike used against him in these types of debates.
He def underachieved in that series.

 

[Inimical]

James' Finals loss when he was on the Cavs should strictly be viewed as a positive.
Not many thought that team was the best in the East, let alone near good enough to beat the Spurs.


Last year coukd be viewed as a disappointing ending, but not a giant negative on his resume. The Spurs just deserve credit for playing amazing team basketball.


The loss to Dallas though, will always be a big strike used against him in these types of debates.
He def underachieved in that series.

Yeah he was expected to lose that series with the cavs. But it happened. Cant ignore it.

 

[trojanfan12]

James' Finals loss when he was on the Cavs should strictly be viewed as a positive.
Not many thought that team was the best in the East, let alone near good enough to beat the Spurs.


Last year coukd be viewed as a disappointing ending, but not a giant negative on his resume. The Spurs just deserve credit for playing amazing team basketball.


The loss to Dallas though, will always be a big strike used against him in these types of debates.
He def underachieved in that series.

Unfortunately for Lebron, it doesn't seem to work that way in these debates. It's seems to be simply seen as "you made it X number of times and you won X number of times". No one makes excuses for Kobe when the '08 Lakers lost to the Celtics in the finals even though no one expected them to get to the finals that season.

MJ doesn't get extra credit for winning in his first finals vs. a more experienced Lakers team either. He just gets credit for batting 1.000 in finals appearances. Bummer for both Lebron and Kobe, but no amount of excuses or reasoning is ever going to trump that.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Unfortunately for Lebron, it doesn't seem to work that way in these debates. It's seems to be simply seen as "you made it X number of times and you won X number of times". No one makes excuses for Kobe when the '08 Lakers lost to the Celtics in the finals even though no one expected them to get to the finals that season.

MJ doesn't get extra credit for winning in his first finals vs. a more experienced Lakers team either. He just gets credit for batting 1.000 in finals appearances. Bummer for both Lebron and Kobe, but no amount of excuses or reasoning is ever going to trump that.

Ehh.
I guess if must be based on who you are debating then.

James losing in Finals, to me, is equal or better reasoning in a debate vs Jordan losing in much earlier rounds.


You'll get no argument from the vast majority that Jordan is a much more all time clutch player though.