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The 2019-20 Cleveland Cavaliers: Exhibit A for HS Players Not to Enter the NBA Draft

HurricaneDij39

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*A thread that actually doesn't involve Jordan (for now).

Regardless of what anyone on this this board wishes to believe, the Cavs have some good young talent - Darius Garland, Collin Sexton, and Kevin Porter Jr.

All three have entered the NBA as teenagers, and not only do these guys each have a solid future, they have also put up some solid numbers during the current suspended season of 2019-20. However, the most important accomplishment this trio has not achieved has been to elevate their team in the standings.

The commonly flawed logic among NBA fan bases in general is that they tend to look at the success of LeBron James and say he should be considered the ultimate standard in regards to entering the league straight from the prep ranks. This approach could not be more inaccurate.

I personally have not ever been shy about admitting that my opinion on James has fluctuated in major ways throughout the course of his lengthy career, but the fact is that LeBron is more than just a generational talent - He is a physical freak of nature. There will never be another LeBron James, and 2003 was a different time and age in that.

Now granted, Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson are not the ideal veteran leaders to guide a youth movement, to expect any teenager to instantly turn around a franchise vacated by LeBron James is simply not realistic, and it had taken even LeBron himself until his third NBA season before he could lead the Cavs to the playoffs for the first time in his career back in 2006.

While I do believe Cleveland is a solidly-run basketball organization, the bottom line is that until they can acquire some reliable veteran talent (moreso on the court than on the sidelines or in the front office) - The Cavs will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

For starters, Andre Drummond was a nice mini-coup for them at the February trade deadline, taking advantage of a desperate Detroit team looking to get out from under Drummond’s tricky player option for next season. However, the K-Love extension was easily their biggest mistake post-LeBron. In hindsight, Cleveland probably should have worked a Bradley Beal/Wizards-type deal with Love, in that both sides knew they weren't going to get married and have kids with one another (or so to speak), and it turn came to terms on a short-term agreement. Even at the time, four years for Love was just asinine, especially at his age and given his overall profile and body of work.

They would be best served to do everything in their power to move Love during the upcoming offseason, even if it means taking back long-term salary, and by doing so - Fully committing to the next wave of Cavs basketball. Kevin Love, at age 31 and his lack of defense, is not it.

At the end of the day, and while it is unlikely at this stage that the league will re-allow high school players to enter the draft in large part due G-League considerations, it would not take the NBA too long in hindsight to come to grips that such a move was/would be a mistake. Teenage basketball players in general simply aren‘t mature, and the overall product on the court would be worse off if such a move were ever made.

@WiggyRuss


#IggyIsWashed :yahoo:
 

tlance

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So,

your position is that high school players should not enter the NBA directly and you are using 3 players who didn’t enter the NBA directly out of high school as evidence for that?

Brilliant.

More time in college is definitely best for teams to evaluate what players can actually do. As for the player, it depends on the individual.

There are a small number of 5 star recruits who are going to be NBA players and it is obvious. Now, hard to say for sure if they are good enough to be stars (in most cases) until they play against higher levels of competition, but it is pretty clear that Jalen Green and Cade Cunningham are going to be NBA players.

for the best of the best it works fine. They learn on the NBA level, they take some extra time to develop, but their careers still play out well. As long as it is like it was before with 3-5 kids declaring, it will be fine.

Now, when random 4 stars start declaring then we might have issues.
 

fightinfunbags

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Why do Cavs fans always assume that anyone other than the Cavs organization places any value on Kevin Love? He’s old overpaid trash. There was never going to be a Bradley Beal for Kevin Love trade. Da fuq?
 

tlance

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Why do Cavs fans always assume that anyone other than the Cavs organization places any value on Kevin Love? He’s old overpaid trash. There was never going to be a Bradley Beal for Kevin Love trade. Da fuq?

Yeah, that too.

Not even close.
 

Shanemansj13

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While I do believe Cleveland is a solidly-run basketball organization, the bottom line is that until they can acquire some reliable veteran talent (moreso on the court than on the sidelines or in the front office) - The Cavs will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

This is where I completely disagree, Love, Tristan and even Drummond offer the leadership, veteran presence and way to teach these young guys how to win but what they need most is a STAR, plain and simple. The only way to achieve this is through the draft. There is no way the Cavs can acquire a crafty veteran that is also a star or all-star if that's what you are saying...they can only build through the draft or like they did with Drummond...take a chance with a trade for a pricey young talented player whose value is somewhat low to that team.

But honestly I am not sure how any of this applies to young players entering the draft considering HS players cannot do this unless they play one season overseas and technically they would be about the same age as a player staying in college for one year. Also, every player is different so lumping them all together isn't really fair.
 

Shanemansj13

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Why do Cavs fans always assume that anyone other than the Cavs organization places any value on Kevin Love? He’s old overpaid trash. There was never going to be a Bradley Beal for Kevin Love trade. Da fuq?

I have always valued Love for what he is after Lebron left (for the most part). A veteran that is overpaid that can be a locker room voice for the team but the fact is as a #1 this team won't be a playoff team. Have you seen their roster? Yes, a lot of young, inexperienced players that MIGHT have potential. Not many can win with a team like that. At one point I thought the Cavs could get something of decent value out of Love but that time has passed.

When did a Beal-Love trade ever come up? Hahaha I heard Beal rumors for awhile but it was to the Lakers, so not sure where you are getting this from.
 

Wamu

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*A thread that actually doesn't involve Jordan (for now).

Regardless of what anyone on this this board wishes to believe, the Cavs have some good young talent - Darius Garland, Collin Sexton, and Kevin Porter Jr.

All three have entered the NBA as teenagers, and not only do these guys each have a solid future, they have also put up some solid numbers during the current suspended season of 2019-20. However, the most important accomplishment this trio has not achieved has been to elevate their team in the standings.

The commonly flawed logic among NBA fan bases in general is that they tend to look at the success of LeBron James and say he should be considered the ultimate standard in regards to entering the league straight from the prep ranks. This approach could not be more inaccurate.

I personally have not ever been shy about admitting that my opinion on James has fluctuated in major ways throughout the course of his lengthy career, but the fact is that LeBron is more than just a generational talent - He is a physical freak of nature. There will never be another LeBron James, and 2003 was a different time and age in that.

Now granted, Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson are not the ideal veteran leaders to guide a youth movement, to expect any teenager to instantly turn around a franchise vacated by LeBron James is simply not realistic, and it had taken even LeBron himself until his third NBA season before he could lead the Cavs to the playoffs for the first time in his career back in 2006.

While I do believe Cleveland is a solidly-run basketball organization, the bottom line is that until they can acquire some reliable veteran talent (moreso on the court than on the sidelines or in the front office) - The Cavs will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

For starters, Andre Drummond was a nice mini-coup for them at the February trade deadline, taking advantage of a desperate Detroit team looking to get out from under Drummond’s tricky player option for next season. However, the K-Love extension was easily their biggest mistake post-LeBron. In hindsight, Cleveland probably should have worked a Bradley Beal/Wizards-type deal with Love, in that both sides knew they weren't going to get married and have kids with one another (or so to speak), and it turn came to terms on a short-term agreement. Even at the time, four years for Love was just asinine, especially at his age and given his overall profile and body of work.

They would be best served to do everything in their power to move Love during the upcoming offseason, even if it means taking back long-term salary, and by doing so - Fully committing to the next wave of Cavs basketball. Kevin Love, at age 31 and his lack of defense, is not it.

At the end of the day, and while it is unlikely at this stage that the league will re-allow high school players to enter the draft in large part due G-League considerations, it would not take the NBA too long in hindsight to come to grips that such a move was/would be a mistake. Teenage basketball players in general simply aren‘t mature, and the overall product on the court would be worse off if such a move were ever made.

@WiggyRuss


#IggyIsWashed :yahoo:


15151710c5ec4d7f0d4fc0e4ff3c9ac1.gif
 

dtgold88

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Why do Cavs fans always assume that anyone other than the Cavs organization places any value on Kevin Love? He’s old overpaid trash. There was never going to be a Bradley Beal for Kevin Love trade. Da fuq?
Good thing then he never proposed a Love-Beal trade. Try reading it again.
 

dtgold88

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This is where I completely disagree, Love, Tristan and even Drummond offer the leadership, veteran presence and way to teach these young guys how to win but what they need most is a STAR, plain and simple. The only way to achieve this is through the draft. There is no way the Cavs can acquire a crafty veteran that is also a star or all-star if that's what you are saying...they can only build through the draft or like they did with Drummond...take a chance with a trade for a pricey young talented player whose value is somewhat low to that team.

But honestly I am not sure how any of this applies to young players entering the draft considering HS players cannot do this unless they play one season overseas and technically they would be about the same age as a player staying in college for one year. Also, every player is different so lumping them all together isn't really fair.
Yeah...not really sure why the cavs were used as an example to support his premise.
 

dtgold88

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I have always valued Love for what he is after Lebron left (for the most part). A veteran that is overpaid that can be a locker room voice for the team but the fact is as a #1 this team won't be a playoff team. Have you seen their roster? Yes, a lot of young, inexperienced players that MIGHT have potential. Not many can win with a team like that. At one point I thought the Cavs could get something of decent value out of Love but that time has passed.

When did a Beal-Love trade ever come up? Hahaha I heard Beal rumors for awhile but it was to the Lakers, so not sure where you are getting this from.
No one mentioned Love for beal.....all he said was should have signed Love to a shorter deal. Like beal.
 

logic

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That was a lot of words to not make any real point about players going straight from HS to the pros. Yes, for the majority of players it is the wrong choice, and the majority of players never went straight from HS to the pros. Yet for some it is a good choice. Zion could have easily done it and not risked a career ending injury while not being paid while everyone knew he was one and done. I believe it should still be an option and it is the teams' responsibility to make the right decision.
 

Shanemansj13

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Still trying to figure out why the Cavs are being used as an example...bc Lebron did it in 2003? This makes very little sense.
 

tlance

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Love for Beal was never mentioned.....so there's that.

Yeah well, admittedly I usually stop reading Hurricane posts after the first sentence or 2
 

Wamu

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Yeah well, admittedly I usually stop reading Hurricane posts after the first sentence or 2

I didn't even get to the end of the first sentence. regardless of what anyone on this board wants to believe. Right after that I busted out in laughter. So from that point on he's probably pretty much full of shit like always.
 

Shanemansj13

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The only possible blockbuster deal that was ever going to come the Cavs way was the Paul George-Kyrie flip and Lebron wouldn't commit long-term at the time so...Beal-Love wasn't ever realistic and I really don't ever remembering any of us talking about it on this forum...at least seriously LOL
 

bksballer89

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If you're a projected top 15-20 pick then you should always enter the draft out of HS if/when the NBA bring that back.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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*A thread that actually doesn't involve Jordan (for now).

Regardless of what anyone on this this board wishes to believe, the Cavs have some good young talent - Darius Garland, Collin Sexton, and Kevin Porter Jr.

All three have entered the NBA as teenagers, and not only do these guys each have a solid future, they have also put up some solid numbers during the current suspended season of 2019-20. However, the most important accomplishment this trio has not achieved has been to elevate their team in the standings.

The commonly flawed logic among NBA fan bases in general is that they tend to look at the success of LeBron James and say he should be considered the ultimate standard in regards to entering the league straight from the prep ranks. This approach could not be more inaccurate.

I personally have not ever been shy about admitting that my opinion on James has fluctuated in major ways throughout the course of his lengthy career, but the fact is that LeBron is more than just a generational talent - He is a physical freak of nature. There will never be another LeBron James, and 2003 was a different time and age in that.

Now granted, Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson are not the ideal veteran leaders to guide a youth movement, to expect any teenager to instantly turn around a franchise vacated by LeBron James is simply not realistic, and it had taken even LeBron himself until his third NBA season before he could lead the Cavs to the playoffs for the first time in his career back in 2006.

While I do believe Cleveland is a solidly-run basketball organization, the bottom line is that until they can acquire some reliable veteran talent (moreso on the court than on the sidelines or in the front office) - The Cavs will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

For starters, Andre Drummond was a nice mini-coup for them at the February trade deadline, taking advantage of a desperate Detroit team looking to get out from under Drummond’s tricky player option for next season. However, the K-Love extension was easily their biggest mistake post-LeBron. In hindsight, Cleveland probably should have worked a Bradley Beal/Wizards-type deal with Love, in that both sides knew they weren't going to get married and have kids with one another (or so to speak), and it turn came to terms on a short-term agreement. Even at the time, four years for Love was just asinine, especially at his age and given his overall profile and body of work.

They would be best served to do everything in their power to move Love during the upcoming offseason, even if it means taking back long-term salary, and by doing so - Fully committing to the next wave of Cavs basketball. Kevin Love, at age 31 and his lack of defense, is not it.

At the end of the day, and while it is unlikely at this stage that the league will re-allow high school players to enter the draft in large part due G-League considerations, it would not take the NBA too long in hindsight to come to grips that such a move was/would be a mistake. Teenage basketball players in general simply aren‘t mature, and the overall product on the court would be worse off if such a move were ever made.

@WiggyRuss


#IggyIsWashed :yahoo:

I thank the Cavs daily for taking Andre Drummond. I think it is a lock Drummond opts in for the 28 or 29 million for next year, as no team is offering him anywhere near that.

Ive lost count on how many times i have watched Drummond quit on the Pistons during a game. He seems to think it is 80's or 90's and teams are going to run their offense thru the post. If he'd take on the role Rodman did, where he was the guy who went after every rebound and stopped worrying about scoring. He'd be a great addition to a team. He pouts if he doesn't get the ball, pouts if he doesn't get a call and he is just the wrong type of player in today's NBA.

He is a good guy and he is likable off the court, but he wants a max deal and he isn't worth anywhere near a max contract
 

Shanemansj13

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I thank the Cavs daily for taking Andre Drummond. I think it is a lock Drummond opts in for the 28 or 29 million for next year, as no team is offering him anywhere near that.

Ive lost count on how many times i have watched Drummond quit on the Pistons during a game. He seems to think it is 80's or 90's and teams are going to run their offense thru the post. If he'd take on the role Rodman did, where he was the guy who went after every rebound and stopped worrying about scoring. He'd be a great addition to a team. He pouts if he doesn't get the ball, pouts if he doesn't get a call and he is just the wrong type of player in today's NBA.

He is a good guy and he is likable off the court, but he wants a max deal and he isn't worth anywhere near a max contract

Agree but the Cavs gave up two limb dicks for him and Gilbert has a huge pocketbook. Give it a full trial run next season but I agree, I dont think he is worth anything close to max
 
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