For those who think Trout over miggy

[soxfan1468927]

Yup thats what someone who wishes that was their job would say....

Ill take their words over anyones on here anyday.......thats why they get paid and we dont.

Just like all the mel kiper jr wannabees who always dog the man out come draft day...

Once you guys get a tv show, newspaper job, job for a team, become a scout.....etc etc etc.....then maybe ill take you more serious.....but until then, youre just like me, a member on a sports chat site with an opinion.

I like how you know every writer who votes on the MVP.....maybe you should get out and do something about all these so called idiots who are the ONLY ones that matter since miggy IS the MVP

When did I say I know every writer? These guys didn't get writing jobs because they know baseball. They got them because they're good writers. I'm not sure why anyone would debate that.

 

[soxfan1468927]

In some cases, I wouldn't even go that far.

Great compared to the rest of the world. Compared to the writers of the world you could call them mediocre

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yup thats what someone who wishes that was their job would say....

Ill take their words over anyones on here anyday.......thats why they get paid and we dont.

Just like all the mel kiper jr wannabees who always dog the man out come draft day...

Once you guys get a tv show, newspaper job, job for a team, become a scout.....etc etc etc.....then maybe ill take you more serious.....but until then, youre just like me, a member on a sports chat site with an opinion.

I like how you know every writer who votes on the MVP.....maybe you should get out and do something about all these so called idiots who are the ONLY ones that matter since miggy IS the MVP

And to your last paragraph. Why would I go out and do something about the voters for MVP? And I never called them idiots. I don't care who wins MVP. I enjoy the debates, that's why I'm here. But I enjoy the results on the field (world champion Red Sox) an infinite amount more than the results off the field, such as awards being handed out. Clearly the only thing you have to hold on to this year is Miggy's MVP. I'm sure you forgot what it's like to actually win a championship so your consistent claim that this is the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS is understandable.

 

[StanMarsh51]

When did I say I know every writer? These guys didn't get writing jobs because they know baseball. They got them because they're good writers. I'm not sure why anyone would debate that.

Pretty much...

I looked up one of the Yankee writers that had a vote this year (Chad Jennings)....these are the type of articles he writes:

Rivera on Robertson: "Hopefully they give him the job, because he can do that" - The LoHud Yankees Blog

A-Rod scheduled to interview with MLB on Friday - The LoHud Yankees Blog

Mantle's family donates to Hurricane Sandy relief - The LoHud Yankees Blog

Pitchers and catchers report February 14 - The LoHud Yankees Blog


So is cleaves really thinking that a guy like Chad Johnson is paid for an expert opinion/analysis? Looks more like a reporter to me. Is it an expert opinion that pitchers and catchers report on Feb 14, or that Mantle's family donates to hurricane relief funds?

 

[da55bums]

now this is a baseball thread....kudos to you all...more stats than I ever wanted to see but enjoy reading actual baseball discussions.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

For what it's worth, Cabrera did make the least plays per 27 outs out of the 22 guys that played significant time at 3rd this year.

It's all about the way you look at it....

For what it's worth -- Detroit set the MLB record for strikeouts by a pitching staff, so the fact he made less plays per 27 outs, means very little.

33% of the outs recorded by the Detroit Tigers this year was by the strikeouts.

 

[StanMarsh51]

For what it's worth -- Detroit set the MLB record for strikeouts by a pitching staff, so the fact he made less plays per 27 outs, means very little.

33% of the outs recorded by the Detroit Tigers this year was by the strikeouts.

Why don't we look at what was actually hit in Cabrera's zone then, and how many he got to? Would that shed some light on his range?

Comparing Cabrera to guys who had a similar # of balls hit in their zone...

Cabrera had 227 balls hit in his zone this year and made 149 plays
Juan Uribe had 218 balls hit in his zone, and made 181 plays
Chris Johnson had 241 balls hit in his zone and made 172 plays
David Wright had 237 balls hit in his zone and made 177 plays
Trevor Plouffe had 227 balls hit in his zone and made 165 plays
Todd Frazier had 244 balls hit in his zone and made 178 plays

So all of these guys had a similar # of balls hit in their zone, but Cabrera got to significantly less than them.

 

[broncosmitty]

I don't put much, if any, credence in defense statistics. But it wouldn't surprise me that his range was very low in comparison to others. By early August he could hardly move. Which put him down to the level of Jhonny Peralta as far as range goes. Prior to injury, range was not an issue. Unless someone considers ranging too far from his base responsibilities an issue. (I do). That was a drawback when he played first and also to some extent at third, prior to the injury.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Why don't we look at what was actually hit in Cabrera's zone then, and how many he got to? Would that shed some light on his range?

Comparing Cabrera to guys who had a similar # of balls hit in their zone...

Cabrera had 227 balls hit in his zone this year and made 149 plays
Juan Uribe had 218 balls hit in his zone, and made 181 plays
Chris Johnson had 241 balls hit in his zone and made 172 plays
David Wright had 237 balls hit in his zone and made 177 plays
Trevor Plouffe had 227 balls hit in his zone and made 165 plays
Todd Frazier had 244 balls hit in his zone and made 178 plays

So all of these guys had a similar # of balls hit in their zone, but Cabrera got to significantly less than them.

How does Cabrera have 283 total chances on the season, but only 227 balls hit in his zone? Also, who establishes what player will make a play and what player will not? Who establishes where the zone starts and where the zone ends?

Personally -- advanced defensive statistics to me are nothing more than arbitrary numbers put together to try and define a players importance, but like many advanced stats -- they are nothing more than guesstimates.

 

[StanMarsh51]

How does Cabrera have 283 total chances on the season, but only 227 balls hit in his zone? Also, who establishes what player will make a play and what player will not? Who establishes where the zone starts and where the zone ends?

Personally -- advanced defensive statistics to me are nothing more than arbitrary numbers put together to try and define a players importance, but like many advanced stats -- they are nothing more than guesstimates.

Total chances are assists + putouts + errors....players can have multiple total chances on a single play (ie - a 3B steps on third for a force-out then throws to first to get the batter out).

BIZ (balls in zone) measures how many balls were hit in that player's zone, and how many balls that player was able to make a play on.



Hardball Times definition of zone:
The areas on a ballfield in which at least 50% of batted balls are handled for outs. Zones are standardized and defined separately for each position.

I remember reading some in dept articles on how they draw up the zones a while back, so if I can find them, I'll post them...

 

[jalopy]

Why don't we look at what was actually hit in Cabrera's zone then, and how many he got to? Would that shed some light on his range?

Comparing Cabrera to guys who had a similar # of balls hit in their zone...

Cabrera had 227 balls hit in his zone this year and made 149 plays
Juan Uribe had 218 balls hit in his zone, and made 181 plays
Chris Johnson had 241 balls hit in his zone and made 172 plays
David Wright had 237 balls hit in his zone and made 177 plays
Trevor Plouffe had 227 balls hit in his zone and made 165 plays
Todd Frazier had 244 balls hit in his zone and made 178 plays

So all of these guys had a similar # of balls hit in their zone, but Cabrera got to significantly less than them.

Stan, don't try using facts against these clowns. It is pointless to debate them because they just don't get it. If this was a debate, they would be laughed off the stage.

 

[DragonfromTO]

For what it's worth -- Detroit set the MLB record for strikeouts by a pitching staff, so the fact he made less plays per 27 outs, means very little.

33% of the outs recorded by the Detroit Tigers this year was by the strikeouts.

The difference between Cabrera's total chances and the league average does not appear as if it can be explained by the difference between the Tigers' K rate and the league average. The Tigers' K rate is about 17% higher than the MLB average while the league average RF/9 is about 27% higher than Cabrera's. You'd expect a 3rd baseman making an average number of plays to have a RF/9 of about 2.15 given the increased K rate, but Cabrera's was still only 1.98.

 

[da55bums]

Total chances are assists + putouts + errors....players can have multiple total chances on a single play QUOTE]


BA ZINGA

 

[broncosmitty]

Stan, don't try using facts against these clowns. It is pointless to debate them because they just don't get it. If this was a debate, they would be laughed off the stage.

When have you ever bothered to debate anyone? For years you've subjected our team boards with your arrogance. You're such a repugnant little prick that you get tossed off boards for being an ass rather than debating those whom you deem as lesser than yourself for some reason. (The debate was over the day this thread started. There was a vote. None of our ballots were counted for some reason.)

 

[Ronnie]

When have you ever bothered to debate anyone? For years you've subjected our team boards with your arrogance. You're such a repugnant little prick that you get tossed off boards for being an ass rather than debating those whom you deem as lesser than yourself for some reason. (The debate was over the day this thread started. There was a vote. None of our ballots were counted for some reason.)

Seems like this broncosmitty guy can't get along with anyone. (Except that muzzer guy. lol) A LOT of hate being spewed, yet again, by him. I wonder why he hasn't put jalopy on his ignore list.

 

[da55bums]

Seems like this broncosmitty guy can't get along with anyone. (Except that muzzer guy. lol) A LOT of hate being spewed, yet again, by him. I wonder why he hasn't put jalopy on his ignore list.

seems like a pattern, smitty and trustme...get to the point of frustration...use the "name calling" method listed as #3 in "how to win an argument every time"...

guessing the "vote" was taken after repetitive "name calling" to diminish the view to the "voters"

sorta sucks, smitty has humor at least, if anyone falls in the arrogance category they have to be listed at best 2nd behind TrustMe....but he is Dougie SR...at least doing it for homer reasons...respect it a hair, just have to take his "stats" and remove the homerism twists he applys to them.

the real frustration=talking like you have won a WS...and the team not backing it up.

 

[jalopy]

When have you ever bothered to debate anyone? For years you've subjected our team boards with your arrogance. You're such a repugnant little prick that you get tossed off boards for being an ass rather than debating those whom you deem as lesser than yourself for some reason. (The debate was over the day this thread started. There was a vote. None of our ballots were counted for some reason.)

This is a forum for discussing opposing opinions and the problem is you want people to reinforce your views. Then you throw tantrums and start with the name calling. You say things you wouldn't dream of saying to someone's face. Not for fear of physical retaliation (although that is possible) but you would be humiliated. This is an anonymous board and people are judged by opinions and thoughts. Far too often your legitmate thoughts are lost in spews of hatred. Get over it.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Total chances are assists + putouts + errors....players can have multiple total chances on a single play (ie - a 3B steps on third for a force-out then throws to first to get the batter out).

I know what what total chances are -- it still doesn't add up. He had 283 total chances. He had 24 double plays on the year. Where does the 227 balls in his zone come from?

 

[DragonfromTO]

I know what what total chances are -- it still doesn't add up. He had 283 total chances. He had 24 double plays on the year. Where does the 227 balls in his zone come from?

Players also sometimes make plays on balls deemed to be out of their zone.

 

[Ronnie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by broncosmitty
When have you ever bothered to debate anyone? For years you've subjected our team boards with your arrogance. You're such a repugnant little prick that you get tossed off boards for being an ass rather than debating those whom you deem as lesser than yourself for some reason. (The debate was over the day this thread started. There was a vote. None of our ballots were counted for some reason.)

jalopy answers: This is a forum for discussing opposing opinions and the problem is you want people to reinforce your views. Then you throw tantrums and start with the name calling.


jalopy hits the nail on the head! We all do that on occasion.....but Mr. Smitty seems to have problems with a lot of people who don't do/say as he wants. He seems to have some paradigm or mold we have to all fit, in order to please him. It seems it isn't so much WHAT we say, but HOW we say it that is important to him. He goes on about crap that happened a long time ago and then goes into the "I'm almost done with this place" rant. Of course, on the Tiger board, he is waiting for "Tag-Along Muzz" (his long time companion) to come and reinforce his thoughts. Broaden your scope, pal. It is possible to learn things from those you dislike, fear, or that irritate you.