For those who think Trout over miggy

[jalopy]

I don't think anyone has said that Albert and Hamilton's down years/absence didn't have an effect. Had Trout batted in front of Miggy his run totals might have been historical. Maybe.

Think Jr and A-Rod on the same team. They would be that good. Problem is, they would split the MVP vote and it would go to Prince in Texas.

 

[StanMarsh51]

The Mariners did win 25 more games in 2001 than they did in 2000. Not that it was just the addition of Ichiro, (Im a bit of an Ichiro honk)but that's a serious uptick. Their incredible season saw 5 Ms in the top 20 in voting that year. But I think you're definitely getting a point here if someone is keeping score.

Interesting to note about the 2001 M's (obviously getting off topic but it's all good), they had virtually the same pitching staff as the 2000 team, but the team ERA was about a full run lower (4.49 in 2000 to 3.54 in 2001). It seemed all the time on the ESPN board that people would use that as a knock against A-Rod (since the M's won so much more games without him), but you can't logically say Jamie Moyer's ERA went down 2 full runs b/c A-Rod wasn't there anymore, etc.

Though if I had to pick a team MVP, it probably would've been Boone, given the numbers he put up while being a good defensive 2B...I think the voters were caught up in Ichiro mania.

 

[broncosmitty]

Think Jr and A-Rod on the same team. They would be that good. Problem is, they would split the MVP vote and it would go to Prince in Texas.

The two would shatter records. (Prince is set up for a serious bounce back season)

 

[broncosmitty]

Interesting to note about the 2001 M's (obviously getting off topic but it's all good), they had virtually the same pitching staff as the 2000 team, but the team ERA was about a full run lower (4.49 in 2000 to 3.54 in 2001). It seemed all the time on the ESPN board that people would use that as a knock against A-Rod (since the M's won so much more games without him), but you can't logically say Jamie Moyer's ERA went down 2 full runs b/c A-Rod wasn't there anymore, etc.

Though if I had to pick a team MVP, it probably would've been Boone, given the numbers he put up while being a good defensive 2B...I think the voters were caught up in Ichiro mania.

That's an incredible drop off in one year. (Sasaki got votes I see, kinda surprising). They did have one helluva rangy outfield defense with Cameron and Ichiro next to each other. Not gonna lie, I caught Ichiro fever too. Had third row seats (they were down close, im just guessing)in right at Comerica the first game of the Ms-Tigs series. It was wild. Crazy Asians everywhere, and me. Still can't think of an outfielder I've enjoyed watching as much as Suzuki. (Manny and ARod were the only non playoff participants in the top ten, right!?!)

 

[StanMarsh51]

My question is....how do they set the zone? On every pitch does the zone move? If miggys guarding the line does the zone move? If hes playing in looking for a bunt, does his zone shrink? If he shades towards 2B because of a LH hitter does it change? Just seems sort of hard to decide where a zone is at.

I may be getting 'zone rating' mixed up with 'ultimate zone rating' (UZR), but if I recall, they use scorers to watch and record every play (so there is a human element to it), and they adjust the zone for certain factors, such as whether the batter is lefty or righty, whether there's an extreme shift, etc. So if David Ortiz is batting and Cabrera is playing where the shortstop normally is, and Ortiz hits one right down the left field line, I believe it's not counted against Cabrera (Dragon may be the best one to confirm whether this is the correct interpretation).

They also keep track of out of zone plays (OOZ), so you see how many times a player went out of his normal zone to make a play.

 

[StanMarsh51]

That's an incredible drop off in one year. (Sasaki got votes I see, kinda surprising). They did have one helluva rangy outfield defense with Cameron and Ichiro next to each other. Not gonna lie, I caught Ichiro fever too. Had third row seats (they were down close, im just guessing)in right at Comerica the first game of the Ms-Tigs series. It was wild. Crazy Asians everywhere, and me. Still can't think of an outfielder I've enjoyed watching as much as Suzuki. (Manny and ARod were the only non playoff participants in the top ten, right!?!)

Though in a all fairness, often the best players tend to play on winning teams.

I quickly looked up the last time a non-playoff player won MVP (Pujols in 2008), and that year, 10 of the top 15 NL MVP vote getters didn't make the playoffs.

So it really depends on the year, but in many cases, the better players tend to play on better teams, as often those teams have multiple guys who get MVP votes.

 

[broncosmitty]

Though in a all fairness, often the best players tend to play on winning teams.

I quickly looked up the last time a non-playoff player won MVP (Pujols in 2008), and that year, 10 of the top 15 NL MVP vote getters didn't make the playoffs.

So it really depends on the year, but in many cases, the better players tend to play on better teams, as often those teams have multiple guys who get MVP votes.

They do, I agree. (D'you think '08 is an outlier?)Guys having career years really impacts the middleing vote getters. Going back to '01 again, I saw Doug Mietkiewicz in there. Which surprised me, but after looking, he did have a nice season, probably his best. Corey Koskie getting atleast one vote surprised me even more. But he hit benchmark numbers in runs, BA and OBP that season. Only time he did that in his career.

 

[da55bums]

Though in a all fairness, often the best players tend to play on winning teams.

I quickly looked up the last time a non-playoff player won MVP (Pujols in 2008), and that year, 10 of the top 15 NL MVP vote getters didn't make the playoffs.

So it really depends on the year, but in many cases, the better players tend to play on better teams, as often those teams have multiple guys who get MVP votes.

Your way better than that line Stan, understand, it happens...

The worse players play on the losing teams also...lol...just joking don't go all Smitty on me.

 

[Wazmankg]

Tell me whom would you rather pay your hard earned dollars to watch play the game, Cabrera or Trout.

Cabrera easily. There's nothing like the anticipation and excitement when he comes to the plate.

 

[Bulldog]

Cabrera easily. There's nothing like the anticipation and excitement when he comes to the plate.

That's probably because you never experienced seeing him go from home to 3B in a matter of seconds. Watch him get on 1st Base then steal 2B and then 3B. Watch him steal a HR from an opposing batter or simply make a great defensive play. You really don't know what excitement is until you watch Trout.

 

[broncosmitty]

Just when I thought this was finally dead...

 

[da55bums]

Royals rumored to be trading pitching to the Rockies....for Dexter Fowler....NOOOOOOOOOO...I can't stand that strikeout artist.

 

[_Xer0_]

Trout is boring and overrated imo.

 

[HammerDown]

 

[navamind]

Trout is boring and overrated imo.

it's a shame this tard got banned. Not that he'd ever eat crow anyway.

 

[da55bums]

Cabrera easily. There's nothing like the anticipation and excitement when he comes to the plate.

lol, yes everyone goes gets a beer and bathroom break when Trout goes to the plate or on the basepaths.

 

[HammerDown]