Eagles trade Boykin to Steelers

[Eastbay]

My Steeler hate is from a long time ago. The Ravens dont mean squat to me. I did like the city the few times I visited back in 92 and 93.

I actually visited for the first time in June. The traffic was horrendous getting their from VA Beach.

 

[LambeauLegs]

Ooooooops


One of Chip Kelly's most controversial trades is in danger of backfiring - Yahoo Finance


At the start of training camp, Kelly, who took over personnel decisions in 2015, traded cornerback Brandon Boykin to the Pittsburgh Steelers for a conditional 2016 fifth-round pick.

As NFL.com's Kevin Patra wrote at the time of the trade, trading Boykin signaled a belief that second-round pick Eric Rowe and sixth-round pick JaCorey Shepherd could step in and play right away.

Nine days after the Boykin trade, Shepherd collided with running back Darren Sproles during practice and went down with a torn ACL. ESPN's Phil Sheridan reports that Shepherd is out for the season.

 

[eaglesnut]

Yup. That sucks for the kid, and for the Eagles. Chip Kelly may have got a little careless with his depth.

 

[cdumler7]

I don't take his comments to be racist at all. Plenty of black people have said the same thing towards those of other races in they just don't always understand what they have gone through and the type of culture that especially many of these players grew up in. Just because Chip has been around them in college and now in the pros doesn't mean that he understands them. There are plenty of people groups that I honestly don't know how to relate the best with. In my line of work I work with people from all walks of life and backgrounds and there are some that I honestly can speak much better with than others. It doesn't make me a racist it just means I don't always understand where they are coming from because I have never been there before.

I honestly would say Boykin did a great job of voicing it so well compared to the other players who have left. Instead of just pulling the racist card out right away he took it from a more Kelly's personality makes it a bit of a challenge to relate with him and for him to relate with others.

To me this is a great signing for Pittsburgh. He looks like a great player to help in a rebuilding defense. He adds that one guy in the secondary you know is of high quality and can depend on to do his job every play.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I don't take his comments to be racist at all. Plenty of black people have said the same thing towards those of other races in they just don't always understand what they have gone through and the type of culture that especially many of these players grew up in. Just because Chip has been around them in college and now in the pros doesn't mean that he understands them. There are plenty of people groups that I honestly don't know how to relate the best with. In my line of work I work with people from all walks of life and backgrounds and there are some that I honestly can speak much better with than others. It doesn't make me a racist it just means I don't always understand where they are coming from because I have never been there before.

I honestly would say Boykin did a great job of voicing it so well compared to the other players who have left. Instead of just pulling the racist card out right away he took it from a more Kelly's personality makes it a bit of a challenge to relate with him and for him to relate with others.

To me this is a great signing for Pittsburgh. He looks like a great player to help in a rebuilding defense. He adds that one guy in the secondary you know is of high quality and can depend on to do his job every play.

Right after the trade, of course he was grilled by the PIT media about this topic, and he didn't shy away from it, he made it clear what he meant...I think all parties move on.

Chip clearly had his own agenda regarding players he wanted to keep or not keep...he has to live it....as Sinatra sang...he did it his way!

 

[PDay8810]

Nine days after the Boykin trade, Shepherd collided with running back Darren Sproles during practice and went down with a torn ACL. ESPN's Phil Sheridan reports that Shepherd is out for the season.

oh shit

 

[cdumler7]

Right after the trade, of course he was grilled by the PIT media about this topic, and he didn't shy away from it, he made it clear what he meant...I think all parties move on.

Chip clearly had his own agenda regarding players he wanted to keep or not keep...he has to live it....as Sinatra sang...he did it his way!

Chip definitely has done it is his own way and will live or die (career wise in the NFL) by his decisions. Can't fault him for that. To me the way that Boykin described Chip's personality was a much better picture of what is actually happening in Philly compared to just using the word "Racist." I think Boykin recognized that Chip does have a certain type of personality and likes his players to fit within his personality and when they don't he really struggles to communicate with them. It is just one of those weaknesses that he has that could hurt him as a coach and even as a GM since he seems to have those duties. Every coach in the league has some kind of weakness whether it be relational, schematically, or whatever. In the end Boykin didn't fit what the Eagles wanted and the Steelers benefited from that.

 

[Balljim55]

Eagles trade Brandon Boykin to Steelers | ProFootballTalk

awesome move for the steelers.

Not for nuthin but can this dude kick a field goal?

 

[SteelersPride]

Not for nuthin but can this dude kick a field goal?

Lame

 

[Balljim55]

Lame

aw cmon. It was a little funny.
Hate it for you guys though.
Hines field is one of the toughest places to kick a field goal and now PATs are moved back.
Good luck on finding a replacement.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Chip definitely has done it is his own way and will live or die (career wise in the NFL) by his decisions. Can't fault him for that. To me the way that Boykin described Chip's personality was a much better picture of what is actually happening in Philly compared to just using the word "Racist." I think Boykin recognized that Chip does have a certain type of personality and likes his players to fit within his personality and when they don't he really struggles to communicate with them. It is just one of those weaknesses that he has that could hurt him as a coach and even as a GM since he seems to have those duties. Every coach in the league has some kind of weakness whether it be relational, schematically, or whatever. In the end Boykin didn't fit what the Eagles wanted and the Steelers benefited from that.

I can't blame him for wanting his own guys...that's every HC...but when you're discarding top shelf talent...still in their prime...people take notice. He has to produce fairly quickly.

 

[cdumler7]

I can't blame him for wanting his own guys...that's every HC...but when you're discarding top shelf talent...still in their prime...people take notice. He has to produce fairly quickly.

Oh I agree. He has made his bed and now must lay in it. The talent that has gone out the door is ridiculous. Essentially he has decided to show that a certain type of personality and a certain type of scheme trumps that of talent. So far the NFL has shown that can only get you so far. You still need talent to produce. heck look at BB for the Patriots. Many thought early on he was going to be a great coach but he didn't really start winning consistently until Brady came into the picture. Most of the top coaches didn't start winning until they actually had talent on the team especially at the QB position.

 

[DutchBird]

I can't blame him for wanting his own guys...that's every HC...but when you're discarding top shelf talent...still in their prime...people take notice. He has to produce fairly quickly.

It was also extremely clear that Boykin would be here for only one or two seasons more at best. For one, Boykin wants to start outside, something that (a) he might not be able to do in the first place, and (b) Kelly would never ever have let him do anyway. So as soon as his contract ran out, it would be over (and IIRC that was after this season). Also (c), Boykin would most likely demand more money that the Eagles would be willing to give him anyway, another reason why he probably would be gone as soon as his contract ran out.

Also, though difficult to determine why, his play last season was at least statistically notable worse (and cursory eyeball test seemed to confirm at at the time) than his play in 2013.

Mind you, the Eagles drafted a slew of DB's, most of them top in NCAA rankings in getting their hands on the football, and most of them showing quite some talent. So arguably they already drafted his replacement, and some spare. They might also have lucked into an Rookie Free Agent they signed who seems to be performing extremely well (though has yet to play consistently against 1st teamers.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

It was also extremely clear that Boykin would be here for only one or two seasons more at best. For one, Boykin wants to start outside, something that (a) he might not be able to do in the first place, and (b) Kelly would never ever have let him do anyway. So as soon as his contract ran out, it would be over (and IIRC that was after this season). Also (c), Boykin would most likely demand more money that the Eagles would be willing to give him anyway, another reason why he probably would be gone as soon as his contract ran out.

Also, though difficult to determine why, his play last season was at least statistically notable worse (and cursory eyeball test seemed to confirm at at the time) than his play in 2013.

Mind you, the Eagles drafted a slew of DB's, most of them top in NCAA rankings in getting their hands on the football, and most of them showing quite some talent. So arguably they already drafted his replacement, and some spare. They might also have lucked into an Rookie Free Agent they signed who seems to be performing extremely well (though has yet to play consistently against 1st teamers.

No push back on your rhyme or reason, again. HCs like having their own guys, but it's rare for one team to lose that many key players in the middle of their prime.

Boykin...a conditional pick (maxing out at 4th rd) for a starting caliber CB is not something you see everyday in the NFL.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

F move for the Eagles. Boykin is one of the better starting nickel corners in the league and served a big purpose on that team.

A move for the Steelers. They desperately needed nickel corner help and Boykin serves a perfect fit and is young.

I don't understand Chip Kelly.

 

[fordman84]

No push back on your rhyme or reason, again. HCs like having their own guys, but it's rare for one team to lose that many key players in the middle of their prime.

Boykin...a conditional pick (maxing out at 4th rd) for a starting caliber CB is not something you see everyday in the NFL.

What's really going to sting is when PIT lets Boykin walk after this season and get a 3rd or 4th comp pick for him.

 

[DutchBird]

Oh I agree. He has made his bed and now must lay in it. The talent that has gone out the door is ridiculous. Essentially he has decided to show that a certain type of personality and a certain type of scheme trumps that of talent. So far the NFL has shown that can only get you so far. You still need talent to produce. heck look at BB for the Patriots. Many thought early on he was going to be a great coach but he didn't really start winning consistently until Brady came into the picture. Most of the top coaches didn't start winning until they actually had talent on the team especially at the QB position.

Few points:

- DeSean Jackson: Already known to take plays and games off. Ridiculously talented indeed though. Allegedly extremely difficult personality, and only one or two players seemed to be able to 'get through to him' and somewhat be able to keep him in line when he was on the team. Both players, Avant and Vick, were known to be gone (either voluntarily or because they were cut as they had no right to be on the team in the first place (Avant)). Result would almost certainly be a locker-room problem last season.

- LeSean McCoy Ridiculously talented, but - apart from some hints at character issues - his style is completely unsuited for what Kelly wants from an RB. Dances way too much, mostly because of him trying to hit a HR every single play. Direct result were many stuffed run plays (or major losses in yards, and stalled drive. Drove coaches and fans crazy. Direct result, regularly, was putting the team in situations where drives would likely stall. One of the major problems of the offense last year was stalled drives, resulting in a horrendous TOP, no-scores (or FG rather than TD), and exposing the defense. IIRC it was Football Outsiders, FWIW, which ranked McCoy among the worst RB's for negative rushes (or non-gained yards), because of the RB dancing rather than hitting the hole.

- Evan Mathis: Apart from the more and more open feud between him and Kelly, there were some pundits which argued that again, Mathis is a very good guard if not among the best in the league, but again, his style of play again being somewhat of a miss-match with the style of play of both Kelce and Peters causing problems for the line as a whole, especially in pass-pro. BTW, it was very clear that no team was willing to trade for him, and it is telling that, AFAIK, he has yet to be signed by anyone.

- Todd Herremans: Starting to fall off the cliff as he was getting old (father time catching up), nowhere near close to the level he was at in 2014 or before. Also more injury-prone.

- Trent Cole: A too high salary cap number, and Graham seemed to emerge as a replacement, and arguably faith in the potential replacements (Smith, Travis Long - who tore his ACL for the second season in a row during training camp). Also there was some chance that Cole would be falling off the cliff much like Herremans (some argue this was already happening somewhat last year).

- Nick Foles: Last year proved that, at least within this system, Foles would be average at best. Simply played badly last year, consistently made the same mistakes throughout the season, costing the team games. Basically not the way to the future, it seems.

- Boykin: See above. Note btw, that this way they at least got something in return for a player that would almost certainly be gone after this season.

- Jeremy Maclin: The Chiefs badly overpaid for him - and it was not as if the Eagles low-balled Maclin (Maclin might even have stated so). He went with the money, and in some ways deservedly so (as he bet on himself last season), or had not tried to sign him long term before last season (!). Note also that matching Maclin's contract would probably mean that the defensive line/defensive front seven (arguably among the best if not the best in the league in 3-4 if not in general) would be gone within two years due to salary cap problems (IIRC pretty much all of their contracts are up within the next two seasons - and Fletcher Cox, Bennie Logan, Kendricks, and maybe Curry will cost a lot)..



In general, it seems that Chip has chosen year three to be the year that he blows up the team, having concluded that the pieces he thought he had (and which largely seemed to work in 2013!), did not fit/work. I think that for some players (like Cole and Mathis) that was part of the motivation to let them go - it was patently clear that they would not be part of the future.

Note that Chip has replaced most of them with very talented players (either youngsters or outsiders), or tried to get talented players instead, and used the loss of offensive talen to try and fix the problems on defense: Maxwell (signed), McCourtney (Eagles tried hard, but he stayed with the Pats), Murray and Mathews (to offset the loss of McCoy), Bradford (can only be an upgrade over Foles, and so far in camp he clearly is, by miles), and an emerging Huff, Mathis and Ertz to offset the loss of Maclin, and apparently Agholor looks very good himself as well. Not only did they replace McCoy with Murray and Mathews, they also received a potential super-star MLB in return for him -> future replacement for Demeco Ryans who is fast approaching the end of his career, even assuming he does recover from his injury.

Guard remains somewhat of a problem, but again the Eagles might have had some bad luck there during the draft (where guys they were targeting were snatch from just in front of them in the 4th/5th round). And that is arguably about the only position where the team has almost certainly gotten worse compared to last season. So far the signs are encouraging the the drop is might be limited at best, of things (as a whole), might actually have gotten much better.



Yes, the Eagles lost a lot of proven (but some of them (close to) declining) talent, but mostly replaced them by talented players themselves, many of them with a higher ceiling, and possibly fixed some serious holes on the team (though some somewhat remained). The issue - completely justified - is that much of this talent is (a) unproven (either as rookie or returning from serious injury), and (b) these are lot of new cogs in the system that need to be integrated into the machine. And that together makes this team hard to judge as far as where it is at.

BTW, note that - according to camp reports - Bradford, Maxwell, Shephard (now lost to injury), Mathews, Mathews (WR), Huff, Ertz, Alonso (pre-concussion), Ryans, Graham, Kendricks and Agholor have looked very good (fairly) consistently. Of course remains to be seen how that translates to play on the field.


Am I said to see Boykin go? Yes. Might it backfire (mostly due to injuries), yes. Was it the right thing to do? Probably (in hindsight, at the time it was surprising).[/B]

 

[DutchBird]

F move for the Eagles. Boykin is one of the better starting nickel corners in the league and served a big purpose on that team.

A move for the Steelers. They desperately needed nickel corner help and Boykin serves a perfect fit and is young.

I don't understand Chip Kelly.

Option A: Have a slot corner who you know will walk away after this season, and who you also know will be dissatisfied during the season. You also know that it is unlikely that you will seriously compete for a Super Bowl this season. What makes it worse, you seem to have hit on quite a few talented DB's, of which some of them you will lose, as you cannot keep them on the team, and they will probably be snatched before you can sign them on the PS (and you cannot all stash them on IR).

Option B: Receive some compensation for a player you know will be gone after this season. Give a talented CB experience on the field, and better yet, create a backfield you know will probably be together for multiple years, or maybe one player swapped out (instead of two or three) next year. Have one additional spot on the team to stash the talented DB's you have drafted.

Most would opt for option B.

 

[fordman84]

Well, Chip got what he wanted in removing all known talent from the team. All that is left is "his guys".

Sink or swim, Chip.

 

[fordman84]

Option A: Have a slot corner who you know will walk away after this season, and who you also know will be dissatisfied during the season. You also know that it is unlikely that you will seriously compete for a Super Bowl this season. What makes it worse, you seem to have hit on quite a few talented DB's, of which some of them you will lose, as you cannot keep them on the team, and they will probably be snatched before you can sign them on the PS (and you cannot all stash them on IR).

Option B: Receive some compensation for a player you know will be gone after this season. Give a talented CB experience on the field, and better yet, create a backfield you know will probably be together for multiple years, or maybe one player swapped out (instead of two or three) next year. Have one additional spot on the team to stash the talented DB's you have drafted.

Most would opt for option B.

Probably would have gotten more compensation from the comp pick when he walked. Would have meant depth for the year, even if the guy wants more time.