All Purpose Trade Thread

[sjrules99]

I totally agree. mitchell, moore, handzus, etc. are supposed to be "good PKers" but I think it depends far more on the system than the individual players. If there is a good system and players know their position and where they need to be, then anybody can be a good PKer. On the contrary if the system is easily beaten then no individual can kill a penalty. it's always a full four man job with a unified system. One guy off course will kill the whole thing.

the best "trade" the sharks could have made would be to sign some PK specialist coach with a great history of coaching that aspect of the game, rather than trade their 2nd best young player on the team, 2nd best scorer in the entire OHL, and one of the top scorers in worcester and gut the roster/system even further for a to-be-ufa 4th liner, and very questionably 3rd/4th liner.

the clear evidence of that, by the way, is handzus who was on a supremely dominant PK unit in LA and was on the first unit there, and has come to SJ and stunk. Dougie seems to think that players make the PK, and he will continue adding guys with good PK reputations, but I am quite skeptical.

The one thing I do hope is that galiardi suprises me. he is the only upside of the deal that I see given his age. If dougie sees something hidden in him, and he can emerge as a legit top 6 forward, I will be truly thrilled and the deal wont be a total waste.

Up to now, I havent seen a trade deal from dougie that I thought was terrible. his traded prospects are rarely top 6 NHLers, and he has given the sharks every chance to win a cup (final 4 three times since he took over as GM in 7 seasons is pretty impressive). As such, I have to give dougie the benefit of the doubt until they lose the last game of the season. However, if they do go out early, it wont be pretty...

 

[sjrules99]

Can't agree more. Which is worrisome, because I don't see it happening anytime soon. Wilson and McLeeloo seem to have faith in whoever runs the PK.

Fair enough on the young talent, but isn't McGinn at best a very questionable 3rd/4th liner? At least Galiardi has potential to be a decent 2nd liner. He was a huge pest and very impressive the year the Avs and Sharks met up in the first round.

No, I think Mcginn is better. Granted, galiardi had a nice flash in his rookie year and I remember being a bit afraid of him, but I love what I see from mcginn, I just think he was slow to develop but the skills are there. he shot, grit, and nose around the net are great. he has 12 goals playing most of the year on a line with torrey mitchell. he didnt get the chance on the sharks top 6. He is also just now figuring out how to play at the NHL level. The consistency is still lacking, but I see a 20-25 goal possibility for him very soon. Galiardi, I still am not sure. He got 15 goals and 39 points in his 1st full year, but he was also playing over 18 mins/game and he wont get that kind of time in SJ. He hasnt shown that he is anywhere near a top 6 forward, the way ginner has.

As for sgarbossa, at least he was a FA signing, not a pick, and he is undersized, so it's not clear how good he was going to be. My guess is we will find out and hopefully he'll go the way of barriball (another undersizer) and simply disappear into space. I do have to admit though, that the 2nd leading scorer in the OHL was a nice prospect to watch and Im sad that the jrs and college ranks got a bit thinner.

On the bright side, Lee Moffie looks like a pretty solid defensive prospect in michigan and nieto is tearing it up at BU, so at least 2 guys should be interesting for the future.

 

[abaskin18]

the clear evidence of that, by the way, is handzus who was on a supremely dominant PK unit in LA and was on the first unit there, and has come to SJ and stunk. Dougie seems to think that players make the PK, and he will continue adding guys with good PK reputations, but I am quite skeptical.

My comment clearly went over (or under) your head. IMO, special teams is about having the right players in the right system. Both, in healthy balance. SJS had neither to start the year.

If it were all system (and it ain't) then all the GMs in the league should be fired for wasting money and resources on 3rd and 4th liners for the last 50 years or so and special teams coaches would make more than head coaches.

Your so-called evidence above is just another in a long line of theories you try to pass off as fact. Coincidental trends that may or may not correlate in terms of causality. His inability to help the PK could come from a number of places including the system but also including his linemates (who you regularly berate) and his age (that you can't shut up about). Try to keep your rhetoric straight.

 

[rares]

A couple of random things...

- After thinking about it more, correct me if I'm wrong, but both prospect dudes were signed as free agents (i.e. undrafted)? I know my logic is failing me but for some reason that makes me feel not-as-bad as if they had been drafted by the Sharks (especially drafted high-ish).

- I keep reading that Winnik/Gilardi are good PKers... but also that they took a shit ton of penalties on that Avs team (too lazy to look up stats)... sooo, they're good PKers but the Sharks might have to kill more penalties because those goofs TAKE more penalties than your average player? Doesn't quite add up here... hopefully they can be disciplined enough.

- Isn't it said (by some wise, smart folk or something?) that your goalie is your best PKer? It now makes perfect sense. Bottom line, with Niemi sucking so bad, it's no fucking wonder the Sharks PK numbers are so horrible. Let's not blame Handzus for not being the PK savior he was allegedly brought in to be.

 

[sjrules99]

My comment clearly went over (or under) your head. IMO, special teams is about having the right players in the right system. Both, in healthy balance. SJS had neither to start the year.

If it were all system (and it ain't) then all the GMs in the league should be fired for wasting money and resources on 3rd and 4th liners for the last 50 years or so and special teams coaches would make more than head coaches.

Your so-called evidence above is just another in a long line of theories you try to pass off as fact. Coincidental trends that may or may not correlate in terms of causality. His inability to help the PK could come from a number of places including the system but also including his linemates (who you regularly berate) and his age (that you can't shut up about). Try to keep your rhetoric straight.

I didnt see your comment. However, i do think coaching is more than players when it comes to the PK. PP is a little different since it's not all about positioning but instead about creativity and raw skill along with a system.

Also, good special teams coaches can and do become head coaches in the NHL. A good special teams coach is that crucial. Now, obviously, if our goaltender cant stop an unscreened slapper from the point, then that is uncoachable, but the sharks let in tap in after tap in on the PK and it's clear that the system, not the players, are failing since TM has tried just about every roster player on the PK this year, and the result is the same.

I guess moore, winnik, galiardi, (in addition to handzus) coming in is a good test of my PK opinion. if they continue to suck with those guys too, then what more can you do but fix the coaching?

 

[abaskin18]

I didnt see your comment. However, i do think coaching is more than players when it comes to the PK. PP is a little different since it's not all about positioning but instead about creativity and raw skill along with a system.

Also, good special teams coaches can and do become head coaches in the NHL. A good special teams coach is that crucial. Now, obviously, if our goaltender cant stop an unscreened slapper from the point, then that is uncoachable, but the sharks let in tap in after tap in on the PK and it's clear that the system, not the players, are failing since TM has tried just about every roster player on the PK this year, and the result is the same.

I guess moore, winnik, galiardi, (in addition to handzus) coming in is a good test of my PK opinion. if they continue to suck with those guys too, then what more can you do but fix the coaching?

You agreed my with comment (so you saw it), one meant to mock those who think guys with good reps as PKers aren't good PKers. Sure asst coaches get promoted, but if it was all system as you claimed (And with unflappable bedrock evidence to "prove" it, no less) then the assts would be more valuable than a HC and paid as such. They aren't.

The Bold is the most sensible thing you've said all day.

 

[filosofy29]

Injury updates and a closer look at those two new Sharks | Working the Corners

What the new Sharks have to say.

 

[23sharks]

Just curious... why Demers?

I've given up on that kid. He's completely useless. He's been in the league how many years now and he still makes the biggest dumbass mistakes/turnovers in his zone/etc...

Bad news is that he's probably worthless trade-value wise because other GMs also had to have noticed what I have...

Now, Braun on the other hand... definitely shouldn't be traded.

I'm not sure what the hell happened to Demers either. He played very well last season, and I thought he was on his way to becoming a good player. Then he comes out this season and plays like shit.
I really like Braun's game and think he's gonna be a good one.

 

[23sharks]

Could be the coaching, unfortunately, it's looking that way right now.

What has McGinn ever done? Galiardi had 15 goals and 39 pts his rookie year. McGinn had a nice first 35 games with the Sharks this year.

It doesn't.....but what trade would you have done? What player out there could have fixed the current mess that is the Sharks?

This is the exact same thing I've said to people......which guy that was traded today should the Sharks have picked up??
I think the Sharks should have traded Niemi and Handzus for Fleury and Malkin, but reality tells me that isn't going to happen. LOL.
The trade Wilson made today wasn't earthshattering, but I think it helps them a little bit....
With all these teams still in the race, there just weren't many deals to be made. Somehow, some people will fault Wilson for that....

 

[sjrules99]

What trade to fix the current mess?

Well, I dont know what was out there and what options were avialable, so obviously I cant pass judgement. however, a 2nd and a 5th for A Kostitsyn woulda been a good start. Maybe that wasnt available given the brother connection, but Kostitsyn is more the kind of threat I think the sharks need.

other trades that I think would have been better include wolski for a 3rd (though that salary kinda hurts, but the upside is there.)

Who knows what else, but mcginn, sgarbossa, and a 2nd rounder seems to have more value than 3 depth 3/4th liners.

 

[filosofy29]

What trade to fix the current mess?

Well, I dont know what was out there and what options were avialable, so obviously I cant pass judgement. however, a 2nd and a 5th for A Kostitsyn woulda been a good start. Maybe that wasnt available given the brother connection, but Kostitsyn is more the kind of threat I think the sharks need.

other trades that I think would have been better include wolski for a 3rd (though that salary kinda hurts, but the upside is there.)

Who knows what else, but mcginn, sgarbossa, and a 2nd rounder seems to have more value than 3 depth 3/4th liners.

I understand where you're coming from as far as asset management Rules. I can't really argue with you there. However, Kostitsyn and Wolski aren't going to solve the Sharks scoring woes in the playoffs. Neither of those players go to the ugly areas to score. I don't think either would have made the Sharks actual cup contenders this year.

I just wish we could fast forward 3 years, lol.

 

[sjrules99]

Its kinda hard to say what would be the fix since we can only see deals that went through rather than what was offered or denied. Its very possible that nothing was available. however, if that were the case, I'd rather dougie just sit pat. Id rather still have ginner, a mid 2nd rounder, and sgarbossa rather then two rentals and galiardi. If we want rentals, then you gotta go for more legit top 6 players for that kind of price.

I personally feel that the sharks barely if at all improved and in the process, once again took a step back for the future, at least very least losing a mid 2nd rounder and the 2nd leading OHL scorer. Could it be that neither even makes it to the nhl? Sure. But, the sharks have very little in terms of legit prospects and if they are going to continue mortgaging the future with what little they do have, then do it when you actually have a chance at the cup.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

What trade to fix the current mess?

Well, I dont know what was out there and what options were avialable, so obviously I cant pass judgement. however, a 2nd and a 5th for A Kostitsyn woulda been a good start. Maybe that wasnt available given the brother connection, but Kostitsyn is more the kind of threat I think the sharks need.

other trades that I think would have been better include wolski for a 3rd (though that salary kinda hurts, but the upside is there.)

Who knows what else, but mcginn, sgarbossa, and a 2nd rounder seems to have more value than 3 depth 3/4th liners.

Wolski shouldn't even be in the NHL he's dropped off that far. Kostitsyn would have been nice but he's Russian so I think we all knew that wasn't happening. Really I don't think there was a scorer available that fit Wilson's price range in terms of assets or it could be other GMs just weren't buying what Wilson was selling. At the end of the day Wilson improved the line up he's putting on the ice without giving up much of anything.

Sgarbossa is going to be a wait and see. I know his numbers in the O look good but you also have to remeber he's a 19 year old playing primarily against 16 and 17 year olds. IMO he has 2nd/3rd line tweener scoring potential but he's going to have to really improve on virtually every other aspect of his game just to have a shot at the NHL.

Connolly and Sgarbossa were both undrafted signees for a reason. On the very rare occassion those turn out to be gems, see Dan Boyle, but the odds are very very slim.

 

[SJVP408]

What's great is Galiardi's age. He is a pending RFA and should slide into Torrey Mitchell's salary slot. Hopefully less. He's that tweener we hoped for.

Marleau-Thornton-Pavs
Clowe-Couture-Galiardi (not sure he can play RW)
Wingels-Moore-Havlat
Winchester-Handzus-someone

Not horrible. Decent speed all for the top 3 lines. Now the defense and Nemo just need to get their heads out their asses. The Sharks were solid defensively until the injuries hit and Colin cancer was asked to play bigger minutes. If Murray comes back, things will hopefully settle down.

 

[rares]

“It’s two guys who you definitely get irritated playing against, and that’s a compliment,” Murray said. “If people don’t like playing against them, then they’re doing something right. They play hard and they’re going to be great additions to the team.”

Added Galiardi: “That’s nice to hear. I didn’t like playing against that guy, either. He told me he was going to kill me a couple of times.”

LOL... I like that guy already...

 

[SJVP408]

Whoops just saw the "this is our Cup Wining roster" thread. I totally repeated what many said.

 

[shrksfn9192]

Facebook 5: Sharks Trade Deadline History - San Jose Sharks - Facebook 5

 

[SJVP408]

Facebook 5: Sharks Trade Deadline History - San Jose Sharks - Facebook 5

That's crazy that Vinny went for a 5th rounder. Acquiring a #2 center at the deadline nowadays is at least a 2nd rounder. Even Gaustad went for a 1st.

 

[shrksfn9192]

That's crazy that Vinny went for a 5th rounder. Acquiring a #2 center at the deadline nowadays is at least a 2nd rounder. Even Gaustad went for a 1st.

Montreal must have really wanted to move him back then, and he was probably happy to leave, with all of the media scrutiny back there. What a gain that was for the Sharks.