Agree or Disagree

[dkmightyhammer]

Teams have lots of plays they never use. Some for a couple years. Also why tip off future opponents you have this in your bag of tricks?
As for the kneel downs, that's what champions do. The game was already scrappy enough no need to kick a dog when they're down.
This was all PCs ego and it may have cost him a punter.
Let's just say Ryan stays in the concussion protocol. Seattle finds a punter. Punter or snapper screw up punt because they haven't been working together and it costs them a playoff game. Was it still a good idea to use in that particular situation?

Hey if Seattle was losing or thought they couldn't stop the Rams then sure you accept the risk.

If there had been even the slightest amount of a rush then Ryan kicks. He looks up and the red sea has parted. Of course he's going to go for it.

And as for future use? Yes they showed they have this in their bag of tricks, but our opponents special teams coaches are also aware of it now too so do you think they will leave Ryan that unchecked in the future? Nope, they will need to commit someone to stay with the punter until the ball is kicked. That means one less gunner downfield for Lockette to avoid when he's returning punts. That can also be be big.

Pete Carroll's ego? Maybe. The Rams have beaten us three times in row and they always use all kinds of trick gadget shit against us. I'm sure Carroll relished being able to throw some of that back in their faces.

 

[seafandoghawk]

Sherman said they had practiced this play long before the game started and if they saw the right look they would try it. Well, they saw the right look.

What was Ryan supposed to do when a hole opened up big enough to land a 747? If a team gives you a gift you take it. Plus, if Seattle was just looking to run up the score then why didn't they try to move the ball or even kick a FG at the end of the game? They were already in range to score but they did three kneel downs instead.

Exactly. It wsn't about running up the score. It was about keeping possession of the ball and running the clock down as much as possible. It was a smart, good decision.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

It's not about worrying that they couldn't stop the Rams. It's about taking away all chances of it the best that you can manage.

If it was within one or two scores, with under 6 minutes maybe I buy that argument. But 3 scores and the Rams had only scored 3 points.
Do you really believe that?

 

[RobBase]

Exactly. It wsn't about running up the score. It was about keeping possession of the ball and running the clock down as much as possible. It was a smart, good decision.

100% agree. Thomas is out, Kam got banged up, Bennett got KO'd. 5 minutes left. Run it out. And it worked.

 

[seafandoghawk]

If it was within one or two scores, with under 6 minutes maybe I buy that argument. But 3 scores and the Rams had only scored 3 points.
Do you really believe that?

Again, it's not about 'believing' anything. Although a twenty-one point explosion in less than six minutes is unlikely, it's not unprecedented. So you take any gift that the opponent hands in trying to maximize and ensure that your team will win the game. That's Carroll's job. The job of the defensive players is to stop the oppent's offense. Carroll's job is to put his team in the best possible position to win the game.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

If it was within one or two scores, with under 6 minutes maybe I buy that argument. But 3 scores and the Rams had only scored 3 points.
Do you really believe that?

Didn't Baltimore just do this to you last weekend? Looked like you guys had the game in hand and BOOM, in 14 seconds they made it a 3 point game.

Ask Green Bay fans if they wish the Packers would have kept their foot on our throats in the NFCCG in 2015. We scored 3 times in under 5 minutes to break their hearts and cost them a trip to the SB.

Point is that you never know. And if the exact perfect opportunity hadn't presented itself to Ryan he probably just kicks the ball away. But good God man, the hole was so big he ran for nearly 30 yards without even getting touched. How can you expect him not to take advantage of that?

 

[NWPATSFAN]

If there had been even the slightest amount of a rush then Ryan kicks. He looks up and the red sea has parted. Of course he's going to go for it.

And as for future use? Yes they showed they have this in their bag of tricks, but our opponents special teams coaches are also aware of it now too so do you think they will leave Ryan that unchecked in the future? Nope, they will need to commit someone to stay with the punter until the ball is kicked. That means one less gunner downfield for Lockette to avoid when he's returning punts. That can also be be big.

Pete Carroll's ego? Maybe. The Rams have beaten us three times in row and they always use all kinds of trick gadget shit against us. I'm sure Carroll relished being able to throw some of that back in their faces.

Before Ryan sees the seas part the play is already called. If it's there you go for. It doesn't change the fact it's unecessary in that circumstance.
99.9% of teams leave a spy watching the punter. This play doesn't change how teams will defend Seattle. If anything it increases their awareness and using a similiar trick may not work when needed is my thought.
The Rams needed trick plays to win they likely wouldn't have beaten Seattle without them. Seattle had this game well in hand.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Before Ryan sees the seas part the play is already called. If it's there you go for. It doesn't change the fact it's unecessary in that circumstance.
99.9% of teams leave a spy watching the punter. This play doesn't change how teams will defend Seattle. If anything it increases their awareness and using a similiar trick may not work when needed is my thought.
The Rams needed trick plays to win they likely wouldn't have beaten Seattle without them. Seattle had this game well in hand.

On that play the Rams sent.....nobody. I think almost any punter would consider taking off (only needing 2 yards for a first down) if they noticed nobody was coming for them and every defender was running away from them.

And I just don't buy that we 'had the game in hand'. Anyone who has watched the NFL for any amount of time has seen teams blow bigger leads in smaller amounts of time. Seattle had a chance to win the NFC West and they still have a shot at a first round bye. Why take a chance on some bizarre unlikely come back when you can just take matters in your hands and finish them off?

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Didn't Baltimore just do this to you last weekend? Looked like you guys had the game in hand and BOOM, in 14 seconds they made it a 3 point game.

Ask Green Bay fans if they wish the Packers would have kept their foot on our throats in the NFCCG in 2015. We scored 3 times in under 5 minutes to break their hearts and cost them a trip to the SB.

Point is that you never know. And if the exact perfect opportunity hadn't presented itself to Ryan he probably just kicks the ball away. But good God man, the hole was so big he ran for nearly 30 yards without even getting touched. How can you expect him not to take advantage of that?

Where can I buy that SeattleAde you're drinking. For the past 5 years all we've heard is how dominant the Seattle D is. Now you expect me to buy the Hawks were worried the Rams would score three times in under 6 minutes.
This kind of Seattle logic makes my head spin

 

[seafandoghawk]

Before Ryan sees the seas part the play is already called. If it's there you go for. It doesn't change the fact it's unecessary in that circumstance.
99.9% of teams leave a spy watching the punter. This play doesn't change how teams will defend Seattle. If anything it increases their awareness and using a similiar trick may not work when needed is my thought.
The Rams needed trick plays to win they likely wouldn't have beaten Seattle without them. Seattle had this game well in hand.

The Hawks clearly identified something on tape that they were looking for through the whole game. When they finally saw it, they took advantage of it. That's just preparation leading to execution, something that Bill Belichick has been known to specialize in actually.

So let me flip the question on you. Let's say that you had identified something on tape that pointed to a very high likelihood of success in exactly the same situation. Do you say, "Yeah I know we can keep the ball here and run more game clock-- but gosh, will that really seem fair enough to everyone such that I better just punt it instead?"

 

[NWPATSFAN]

On that play the Rams sent.....nobody. I think almost any punter would consider taking off (only needing 2 yards for a first down) if they noticed nobody was coming for them and every defender was running away from them.

And I just don't buy that we 'had the game in hand'. Anyone who has watched the NFL for any amount of time has seen teams blow bigger leads in smaller amounts of time. Seattle had a chance to win the NFC West and they still have a shot at a first round bye. Why take a chance on some bizarre unlikely come back when you can just take matters in your hands and finish them off?

Keep walking the company line. If I were to bet you the Rams would win that game prior to the fake punt. You would've given me 10-1 odds or better I was wrong. Stop the silliness. You were 99.9% sure Seattle was winning that game.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Where can I buy that SeattleAde you're drinking. For the past 5 years all we've heard is how dominant the Seattle D is. Now you expect me to buy the Hawks were worried the Rams would score three times in under 6 minutes.
This kind of Seattle logic makes my head spin

Your always spinning away so...

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Where can I buy that SeattleAde you're drinking. For the past 5 years all we've heard is how dominant the Seattle D is. Now you expect me to buy the Hawks were worried the Rams would score three times in under 6 minutes.
This kind of Seattle logic makes my head spin

I'm a nervous fan. I'm never comfortable in any game. Even when we blew out the Broncos in the SB I never relaxed until about the 2 minute warning.


And it's a little funny that a Pats fan would call out any other teams for running up the score. Brady and Belichick have made a career of it. How many of those games when Brady set the passing TD record were blowouts where Brady should have still been throwing? Same goes for Manning. He's ran up the score plenty of times too. Passing from the 1 yard line with a 3 TD lead was nothing unusual for either of those two. There's a reason they have so many TD's. The never let up. I will bet good money that as a Pats fan there were often times when you were saying "why is Tom still in the game, if he gets hurt I'll be pissed".

I think in the Hawks-Rams game the other night two things happened

1. The perfect opportunity for Ryan to run happened and he took it.
2. Carroll wanted a little payback for all the times the Rams did shit like this to us.

 

[seafandoghawk]

Where can I buy that SeattleAde you're drinking. For the past 5 years all we've heard is how dominant the Seattle D is. Now you expect me to buy the Hawks were worried the Rams would score three times in under 6 minutes.
This kind of Seattle logic makes my head spin

You seem to be arguing that the head coach shouldn't maximize his team's chances to win when he's presented an opportunity to do just that. So what exactly is your rationale for that idea?

 

[NWPATSFAN]

The Hawks clearly identified something on tape that they were looking for through the whole game. When they finally saw it, they took advantage of it. That's just preparation leading to execution, something that Bill Belichick has been known to specialize in actually.

So let me flip the question on you. Let's say that you had identified something on tape that pointed to a very high likelihood of success in exactly the same situation. Do you say, "Yeah I know we can keep the ball here and run more game clock-- but gosh, will that really seem fair enough to everyone so that I better punt it instead?"

With the game in hand even if I had practiced it for three years I go with the odds. I don't give my opponents more info then they need.
You use BB as an exapmle which is perfect. Last year when Edelman threw the TD agaibst the Ravens thst play had been in the playbook for year. NE was losing they needed the play. it changed the outcome of the game.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I'm a nervous fan. I'm never comfortable in any game. Even when we blew out the Broncos in the SB I never relaxed until about the 2 minute warning.


And it's a little funny that a Pats fan would call out any other teams for running up the score. Brady and Belichick have made a career of it. How many of those games when Brady set the passing TD record were blowouts where Brady should have still been throwing? Same goes for Manning. He's ran up the score plenty of times too. Passing from the 1 yard line with a 3 TD lead was nothing unusual for either of those two. There's a reason they have so many TD's. The never let up. I will bet good money that as a Pats fan there were often times when you were saying "why is Tom still in the game, if he gets hurt I'll be pissed".

I think in the Hawks-Rams game the other night two things happened

1. The perfect opportunity for Ryan to run happened and he took it.
2. Carroll wanted a little payback for all the times the Rams did shit like this to us.

I think most fans are nervous watching big games.
My gripe isn't about running up the score.
It's about not taking uneccessary risk and providing opponents with info you don't have to give them under these specific circumstances.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Your always spinning away so...

Thanks Harold I can always count you to add quality to every debate

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Keep walking the company line. If I were to bet you the Rams would win that game prior to the fake punt. You would've given me 10-1 odds or better I was wrong. Stop the silliness. You were 99.9% sure Seattle was winning that game.

You are absolutely right about that. But its that "one" in the 10-1 odds that worries me.

Don't forget either, we had just been blown out (our worst loss in 6 years) by Green Bay 4 days earlier. I'm pretty sure the team wanted that memory to be gone and they probably wanted to show the league that was an anomaly and they are still a team that is going to be tough to beat in the playoffs.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I'm a nervous fan. I'm never comfortable in any game. Even when we blew out the Broncos in the SB I never relaxed until about the 2 minute warning.


And it's a little funny that a Pats fan would call out any other teams for running up the score. Brady and Belichick have made a career of it. How many of those games when Brady set the passing TD record were blowouts where Brady should have still been throwing? Same goes for Manning. He's ran up the score plenty of times too. Passing from the 1 yard line with a 3 TD lead was nothing unusual for either of those two. There's a reason they have so many TD's. The never let up. I will bet good money that as a Pats fan there were often times when you were saying "why is Tom still in the game, if he gets hurt I'll be pissed".

I think in the Hawks-Rams game the other night two things happened

1. The perfect opportunity for Ryan to run happened and he took it.
2. Carroll wanted a little payback for all the times the Rams did shit like this to us.

Ok we agree on part of this. In any blowout I want my star players sitting. The same thing could've been said about RW not getting pulled till the very end against GB? Coaches coach and players play. Fans, we bitch.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

You seem to be arguing that the head coach shouldn't maximize his team's chances to win when he's presented an opportunity to do just that. So what exactly is your rationale for that idea?

I am arguing punting the ball there with the factors I've already addressed is minimal and I wouldn't use it. Again I'm not showing my opponent my hand until I need to.