49ers' off-season; Cap Space $8,346,186.00

[imac_21]

Yeah, you're probably right that it wasn't as big chunk of the playbook as the pistol is... but when Cunningham and Vick were getting 100+ carries a year I have to imagine there were pages on pages in the playbook that had to do with them running or related plays like them picking on the spot vacated by the LB spying the run.

Anyway that is beside the point I'm trying to make... I don't think it would be a step back if the 49ers had to fall back on more traditional playcalling. If they can get a guy that can still effectively run the pistol then great, I just don't think it is a requirement for the #2 QB. I guess since they have been developing Tolzien for the last 2 years it is worth trying to find a guy who can run the pistol since presumably the QB whisperer worked some Magic on Tolzien and he is an adequate pocket passer for the traditional plays.

It would be a significant step back. We'd either lose a significant chunk of the playbook or have to re-boot the offense. Obviously a team in our situation (SB contender) takes a huge hit if we lose our QB. Why compound it even more?

I don't know where this faith in Tolzien comes from. People talk about him like it isn't a significant downgrade if he has to play next year.

 

[NinerSickness]

1. Playing the backup QB is a set back anyway. I'll take the guy who's a better QB over the guy who fits the offense.
2. If Bray plays well (preseason, limited snaps), he could be a valuable commodity either as a backup or as trade bait. They wouldn't have to trade him; it's just one option. Either way, he's a valuable commodity if he pans out.
3. The Ravens would do better than most teams w/ their backup as opposed to other teams with their backups because they're a good, well-coached team. How would Taylor do running the same offense as Flacco? Not even John Harbaugh knows that; he's never had much of a chance to do so. But the Ravens think enough of him to at least be the backup. They won a SB developing him; the Niners can win a SB developing Bray.

This reads like you're saying that a team's QB does not have to be synchronized with his offense. Could Tom Brady be as good as Kaepernick in the offense we ran in the second half of the season?

If Tom Brady were the backup and CK got injured, the team would scrap the read-option stuff and the offense would be MUCH MUCH better. You're acting like there aren't enough plays to call if you take that stuff out.

Is it black and white? Could it be that the Webb isn't good, but also that they attempted to re-invent the offense and bring in read-option because Webb couldn't run the same offense as Ponder?

Yes, it is black & white. Joe Webb is the worst quarterback in the NFL. He's worse than Tim Tebow. He wouldn't do well in ANY style of offense.

 

[imac_21]

1. Playing the backup QB is a set back anyway. I'll take the guy who's a better QB over the guy who fits the offense.
2. If Bray plays well (preseason, limited snaps), he could be a valuable commodity either as a backup or as trade bait. They wouldn't have to trade him; it's just one option. Either way, he's a valuable commodity if he pans out.
3. The Ravens would do better than most teams w/ their backup as opposed to other teams with their backups because they're a good, well-coached team. How would Taylor do running the same offense as Flacco? Not even John Harbaugh knows that; he's never had much of a chance to do so. But the Ravens think enough of him to at least be the backup. They won a SB developing him; the Niners can win a SB developing Bray.


Yes, it is black & white. Joe Webb is the worst quarterback in the NFL. He's worse than Tim Tebow. He wouldn't do well in ANY style of offense.

Your last statement is ridiculous.

1. You'll voluntarily put yourself in a worse situation because of some adversity? That's unfair to your team.

2. As would any player. So, why not get a guy that fits what you do and have him pan out?

3. So the only question that has actually been asked, you can't answer.

Here's another Ravens question: Did they win a SB developing him, or did they win a SB with him on the team? How much time did they spend developing Taylor? It isn't like Flacco is Peyton or Brady with only a few years left.

Hypothetically, if the Ravens lose Flacco, do you think they turn the offense over to Taylor?

If Tom Brady were the backup and CK got injured, the team would scrap the read-option stuff and the offense would be MUCH MUCH better. You're acting like there aren't enough plays to call if you take that stuff out.

This didn't answer the question. Try to answer the question.

Unless you feel Tyler Bray is at the same level mentally as Brady.

 

[NinerSickness]

Your last statement is ridiculous.

I'll address the rest in another post, but did you see the Vikings' playoff game?

Name a QB (who has played in the NFL) who's worse than Joe Webb. He's one of the worst QBs I've ever seen play.

 

[imac_21]

I'll address the rest in another post, but did you see the Vikings' playoff game?

Name a QB (who has played in the NFL) who's worse than Joe Webb. He's one of the worst QBs I've ever seen play.

How does he compare to Scott Tolzien? Brian Hoyer? The Arizona Cardinals? Josh McCoun? Jordan Palmer? Kellen Moore? McLeod Betherl-Thompson (the guy behind him in Minnesota)? Dennis Dixon? Rusty Smith?

Those are all QBs that were on NFL rosters this year. How would they have faired playing their first significant snaps of the season in GB in the playoffs?

 

[NinerSickness]

1. You'll voluntarily put yourself in a worse situation because of some adversity? That's unfair to your team.

You're assuming it's a worse situation! There's more to a QB than whether or not he can run one wrinkle of the offense.

2. As would any player. So, why not get a guy that fits what you do and have him pan out?

I'm all for that. But name him. EJ Manuel? Sure. I'd be open to him. Who else is out there though? I don't see very many viable options.

3. So the only question that has actually been asked, you can't answer.

Nobody can answer it until Taylor plays. My point is that the Ravens, one of the most successful franchises in the NFL lately, doesn't buy your logic that the backup QB has to have a similar playing style as the starter.

Here's another Ravens question: Did they win a SB developing him, or did they win a SB with him on the team? How much time did they spend developing Taylor? It isn't like Flacco is Peyton or Brady with only a few years left. Hypothetically, if the Ravens lose Flacco, do you think they turn the offense over to Taylor?

No they don't. I honestly don't think either one of us knows the answer to those questions. Let me be clear: I'm not endorsing Taylor as a QB. The Ravens only invested a 6th round pick on him. And that's why I'm so high on Bray. His stock is extremely low, and his potential is extremely high. You usually don't get a QB with that much obvious talent outside of the first 40 picks or so. But he left early, an the Niners should capitalize on that decision.

This didn't answer the question. Try to answer the question.

Do you want specifics for this hypothetical? Ok. He'd probably have about a 60 passer rating. I'm going by the average between Charlie Batch & Byron Leftwich. Assuming that's true, what on earth do you think that's supposed to prove?

How 'bout this: If Ryan Mallett (another unknown) were a FA and wanted to sign with the 49ers for cheap (say, 2 years 3 million), would you have the same opposition to him joining the team because of his lack of speed? No draft picks spent; he just signs.

 

[NinerSickness]

How does he compare to Scott Tolzien? Brian Hoyer? The Arizona Cardinals? Josh McCoun? Jordan Palmer? Kellen Moore? McLeod Betherl-Thompson (the guy behind him in Minnesota)? Dennis Dixon? Rusty Smith?

Bravo. You found one QB who MIGHT be worse than Joe Webb (Rusty Smith). And I'm not 100% convinced of that, but it's probably true. Tolzien, Moore & Thompson haven't even played, so they don't count. Palmer has 15 pass attempts. But Hoyer, McCoun, & Dixon are easily better than the hot poop sanwhich that is Joe Webb.

 

[imac_21]

You're assuming it's a worse situation! There's more to a QB than whether or not he can run one wrinkle of the offense.



I'm all for that. But name him. EJ Manuel? Sure. I'd be open to him. Who else is out there though? I don't see very many viable options.



Nobody can answer it until Taylor plays. My point is that the Ravens, one of the most successful franchises in the NFL lately, doesn't buy your logic that the backup QB has to have a similar playing style as the starter.



No they don't. I honestly don't think either one of us knows the answer to those questions. Let me be clear: I'm not endorsing Taylor as a QB. The Ravens only invested a 6th round pick on him. And that's why I'm so high on Bray. His stock is extremely low, and his potential is extremely high. You usually don't get a QB with that much obvious talent outside of the first 40 picks or so. But he left early, an the Niners should capitalize on that decision.



Do you want specifics for this hypothetical? Ok. He'd probably have about a 60 passer rating. I'm going by the average between Charlie Batch & Byron Leftwich. Assuming that's true, what on earth do you think that's supposed to prove?

How 'bout this: If Ryan Mallett (another unknown) were a FA and wanted to sign with the 49ers for cheap (say, 2 years 3 million), would you have the same opposition to him joining the team because of his lack of speed? No draft picks spent; he just signs.

When you're already limiting your offense, intentionally limiting it further does not help, it hinders.

I haven't really looked into the draft this year because of our successful season, but Manuel would definitely be my top target.

I guess the Ravens haven't done a very good job developing Taylor then, if they wouldn't be ready to let him run the show. Why is Bray's stock so low?

No, I wouldn't sign Mallett, and you know how much I loved him coming out, and he has done nothing to show me he has gotten worse.

 

[imac_21]

Bravo. You found one QB who MIGHT be worse than Joe Webb (Rusty Smith). And I'm not 100% convinced of that, but it's probably true. Tolzien, Moore & Thompson haven't even played, so they don't count. Palmer has 15 pass attempts. But Hoyer, McCoun, & Dixon are easily better than the hot poop sanwhich that is Joe Webb.

They're in the NFL. You said he's the worst QB in the NFL. If these guys can't get on the field, surely it must say something about him.

Hoyer is so good he was cut before the season by the Patriots and was ignored by every team until December.

Palmer has 15 pass attempts. . . and? Is he better than Webb because of it?

Hoyer, McCown and Dixon are better? Based on what? You're judging Webb based on a road playoff game where he threw his first pass of the season.

 

[MHSL82]

It would be a significant step back. We'd either lose a significant chunk of the playbook or have to re-boot the offense. Obviously a team in our situation (SB contender) takes a huge hit if we lose our QB. Why compound it even more?

I don't know where this faith in Tolzien comes from. People talk about him like it isn't a significant downgrade if he has to play next year.

This faith in him comes from one of the following (I think in this order, but I'm a skeptic of some people's logic, much like some are of mine):

1. Trust in Harbaugh and the time that Tolzien has spent with him.
2. Belief that if Alex could do it, so could everyone else. (Everyone's a strong word, but you know what I mean, some people assume Tolzien can if Smith can, whether or not that's true.) After all, they're not thinking of a replacement for Kaep, just an injury replacement for a few games.
3. Pre-season or college play, he started out well and beat out Josh Johnson. Doesn't mean much but people hang onto little things sometimes.

As to significant downgrade from Kaep? I don't think anyone disputes that. I think they are saying he's not a significant downgrade from the alternative (someone we draft, veteran backup, or Smith).

 

[deep9er]

This faith in him comes from one of the following (I think in this order, but I'm a skeptic of some people's logic, much like some are of mine):

1. Trust in Harbaugh and the time that Tolzien has spent with him.
2. Belief that if Alex could do it, so could everyone else. (Everyone's a strong word, but you know what I mean, some people assume Tolzien can if Smith can, whether or not that's true.) After all, they're not thinking of a replacement for Kaep, just an injury replacement for a few games.
3. Pre-season or college play, he started out well and beat out Josh Johnson. Doesn't mean much but people hang onto little things sometimes.

As to significant downgrade from Kaep? I don't think anyone disputes that. I think they are saying he's not a significant downgrade from the alternative (someone we draft, veteran backup, or Smith).

if Kap keeps up his pace, good luck finding ANYONE near his ability? passing, running, and intangibles. he isn't perfect but he is certainly a rare player. so if we're expecting another 'Kap' to back him up, is that realistic?

our offense is fine if we no longer run the option.....as long as the QB can pass? wouldn't we rather have a top throwing QB who doesn't get tackled?

 

[deep9er]

put it this way, if Kap couldn't pass well, would writers be "all over him"? if he could run the option WELL, but not pass, would he have continued starting?

 

[MHSL82]

so if we're expecting another 'Kap' to back him up, is that realistic?

our offense is fine if we no longer run the option.....as long as the QB can pass? wouldn't we rather have a top throwing QB who doesn't get tackled?

I am not sure if your comment really is addressing what I said or just a general comment. I agree with what you said, I think the faith in Tolzien is linked to him in comparison to Smith, veteran QB, or a drafted guy this year. We definitely need Tolzien to be a good passer, whether he was backing up Smith last year or Kaep next year. If the coaches feel he isn't or they can get someone better, we'll all support it.

 

[ChrisPozz]

Aldon Smith Expects Growth in 2013

 

[NinerSickness]

They're in the NFL. You said he's the worst QB in the NFL. If these guys can't get on the field, surely it must say something about him.

Webb wouldn't have gotten on the field either if not for injury. It's a matter of chance when it comes to these backups & 3rd strigers. It's better to be an unknown than to be a QB everyone knows couldn't hit water on a boat in a rainstorm.

Hoyer is so good he was cut before the season by the Patriots and was ignored by every team until December.

That's how bad Webb is.

Palmer has 15 pass attempts. . . and? Is he better than Webb because of it?

He's an unknown. For ruture reference, if I say someone is the worst QB in the NFL, if and I'm not talking about starters, I mean guys who have at least started a game so we know how bad they are. I didn't feel the need to add a bunch of qualifiers in a post about someone as sucky and forgettable Joe Webb.

Hoyer, McCown and Dixon are better? Based on what? You're judging Webb based on a road playoff game where he threw his first pass of the season.

Hell yeah I'm judging him on a road playoff game! He was completely useless out there. It was one of the worst performances I've EVER seen.

As to why Bray's sock is so low: He came out early & really needed another year. He's extremely immature & has acted like a dumbass off the field. He came out early (I think Ray said this) because the coach was planning on leaving & implimenting a new offense. Or maybe he's just impatient to get some money.

These are the down-sides of a guy who could've been the #1 overall pick next year if he had a great senior season. His stock is even lower than Matt Barkley's, and Bray is FAR more talented than that guy.

People also doubt his ability 'cause he had great WRs. But what if those WRs were great (in part) BECAUSE of Bray. He had a chance to solidify his 1st or 2nd round status if he had a great game against Georgia, but he was way off that day. This is a penny stock that could go up to $5 with the right coaching and some time.

But like I said, I always liked EJ too.

 

[ChrisPozz]

Where could Raiders find more cap room? | CSN Bay Area

Receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey

Cap savings by cutting him: $5.341 million

It appears as even DHB has heard the rumblings that he is a potential cut victim, as he purportedly put in extra work at Alameda in the days following the season to show his dedication. While he may have taken a step back last season in his development, it's probably too soon to give up on him entirely. Especially with a new offense coming. A contract restructure seems more viable.

Very interesting. I'd be screaming his name if Jerry Sullivan were still on the 49ers staff.

 

[Bemular]

Where could Raiders find more cap room? | CSN Bay Area

Receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey

Cap savings by cutting him: $5.341 million

It appears as even DHB has heard the rumblings that he is a potential cut victim, as he purportedly put in extra work at Alameda in the days following the season to show his dedication. While he may have taken a step back last season in his development, it's probably too soon to give up on him entirely. Especially with a new offense coming. A contract restructure seems more viable.

Very interesting. I'd be screaming his name if Jerry Sullivan were still on the 49ers staff.

Both Bey & Crabtree were over-drafts but I think both have come along decently - Crabtree better than Bey, but I would not give up on Bey just yet either.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Mike Wallace - WR - Steelers

The Miami Herald's Armando Salguero reiterated that he expects Mike Wallace to be the Dolphins' No. 1 target in free agency.
Wallace and Greg Jennings are the receivers linked to Miami the most, but it seems they prefer to re-sign free agent Brian Hartline and have Wallace play opposite him as the field-stretching deep threat. If a deal can't be worked out with Hartline, we could easily see the Dolphins go after both Wallace and Jennings to line up with Davone Bess in three-wide sets. Wallace is said to be seeking $10-11 million annually, while Jennings could come in around $8-9 million per year.
Related: Dolphins
Source: Armando Salguero on Twitter
Feb 14 - 1:18 PM

Jennings at 8M might interest me.

 

[Bemular]

Ravens vs 49ers Super Bowl XLVII - Full Video

Perhaps someone with embedding skills can do so - I watched it again - we still lost.

 

[MHSL82]

Ravens vs 49ers Super Bowl XLVII - Full Video

Perhaps someone with embedding skills can do so - I watched it again - we still lost.

I'll do it in a new thread, like I did with the Falcons and Packers games. It can get buried later if it's too painful or unnecessary for some to watch or comment. Thanks.