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If you want a Super Bowl QB, Let’s talk about the Salary Cap and where to draft one!

DHoey

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List them,
BTW; the entire post is about when and where it's best to get our long term QB. It is the title of the post.
Stafford and Peyton off the top of my head.

I know the thread title and the purpose, but you can’t count Stafford in Group 3 just because he was drafted high. The rams didn’t get him with the #1 pick
 

Stymietee

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One other thing about Warren Moon that often goes unrecognized...

Altogether, he racked up 435 passing touchdowns and over 70,000 passing yards in 23 years of pro football. That's an incredible career -- and entering the Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility is a fitting conclusion -- for a man who had to prove so much all the way through it.

To this day, Warren carries himself with an upscale, well-dressed business image that fits his low-key demeanor well. Getting to the Hall of Fame is special for everyone who earns the honor. But it's always got to be the sweetest for those who were told "no" repeatedly and had to prove the most to get there.
 

Stymietee

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Stafford and Peyton off the top of my head.

I know the thread title and the purpose, but you can’t count Stafford in Group 3 just because he was drafted high. The rams didn’t get him with the #1 pick
Yes, I can... there's no denying where he was drafted! Just because he's not on the team that didn't draft in the first round doesn't negate that fact. So, help me out with your POV, Was he or was he Not a first-round drafted QB that either got to or won a SB in the salary cap era?
 

DHoey

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Yes, I can... there's no denying where he was drafted! Just because he's not on the team that didn't draft in the first round doesn't negate that fact. So, help me out with your POV, Was he or was he Not a first-round drafted QB that either got to or won a SB in the salary cap era?
What good was Stafford to the lions when he won a SB.
 

Stymietee

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What good was Stafford to the lions when he won a SB.
First-round QBs are often saddled with poor teams, but that is not the point of my post. We can discuss the ineptness of certain NFL teams/organizations if you wish. My team is Washington so I have a lot of first-hand experience on the subject.
 

Sportster 72

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I'll play too. First I want to say Warren Moon was a damned good QB. Something you won't say about Cousins.

Moon: 49,325 yards; 58.4 comp percentage; 291 TDs; 233 Ints in 17 years; record 102-101; 208 games
Cousins: 37,140 yards; 66.4 completion percentage; 251 TDs; 105 Ints in 11 years; record 72-63-2; 142 games

With three more years Cousins could have close to the same amount of yards; 30+ more TD passes and still be way below Moon in Ints. and still have two less years played than Moon

5 years in the Grey Cup mean nothing in relation to the NFL.

You haven't ever liked Cousins. I don't think you would admit to being wrong. I remember you said he had reached his ceiling. You were wrong. You said he couldn't use his feet (he is no dual threat QB) but you were wrong. You said AJ McCarron and Greg McElroy were his equals. You were wrong. Warren Moon. Moon was QB of the then largest loss ever (comeback) until Minnesota and Cousins had an even greater comeback this year.

I only made the comment about Moon because I know how much you like him while you run down Cousins at every chance you get. I actually thing Moon was a very, very good QB.

And how about that Joe Burrow fella. I said I thought he would be better than Haskins and you told me Haskins was better because Burrow couldn't beat out Haskins at Ohio State. ....... Maybe the coaches got it wrong. :noidea:
 

Stymietee

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Point by point...

I won't say that about Cousins because it's simply NOT TRUE! He is pretty good, and I've said that about him many times as he's progressed from the sorrowful boob that he was to the guy that he is today. Moon is a first-ballot HOFer and it is insulting to make such a comparison, especially on a pure numbers basis considering when each played.

OK, the 5 Grey cup championships are eliminated. I have zero arguments with that POV.

No, I've never liked the exaggerated hype over him (Kirk), he is and remains what he is, a pretty good, team-dependent QB. He is not and never will be a force multiplier and remains a 2nd-tier, perhaps even a top 4 or 5 middle-tier QB and that's pretty good considering his time here in D.C.

where am I wrong about any of your silly points?

1. He is NOT known as a runner...FACT!
2. As he grew I adjusted my perspective on him...FACT!
3. He's 34 years old and really hasn't improved much since coming to the Vikings...FACT
4. Ceiling meets Kirk, Kirk meets ceiling!... I used a quote from the GM and you're attributing it to me...FACT!
5. I have never said that McCarron or McElroy were his equals.. the question at the time was who to replace him with if Cousins leaves...FACT!
6. Warren Moon and Kirk Cousins played in different eras...FACT
7. Moon is a first-ballot HOFer.. Kirk would be lucky to get into the hall if he bought tickets... FACT!
8. When you constantly point out defensive losses... How does your point about comeback losses hold up? admit it that's stupid!
8. We will never know about Haskins and I understand why you bought it up...so fkin' lame!

I know, I know, just words on a screen right? Well, as someone recently pointed out my research skills are still pretty good (like Kirk hehehehe) and more important unlike some, I have never been and never will be EMOTIONALLY tied to anything in the NFL, any team nor any employee of the same. Hereeeeee's the research... (Chheck out the progression exemplified by dates)

Back at the 2012 NFL Combine, Kirk Cousins ran his 40-yard dash in 4.84 seconds. Now, as far as QB 40-yard dashes go, that's not a bad number at all, but it's definitely not blazing, either. Defensive lineman Fletcher Cox, for example, ran his in 4.77 seconds that same year (while weighing 84 pounds heavier than the Michigan State signal caller), and 13 out of the 20 passers invited to the event topped Cousins' time.

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Scot McCloughan says Kirk Cousins has reached his ceiling

Kirk Cousins has reached his ceiling - Bing


And in the completely disengenious category the Oscar goes to...

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j_y19

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Wow. Now that is some revisionists history. Sty, every Point sportster made is valid about your position on cousins. You pick out select posts, but if one desired (which I don’t) they could go back And find slews of posts of you denigrating cousins. It seemed apparent at the time that much of your dismay with his was due to the fact he was replacing Griffin. You couldn’t seem to get past that Griffin was, due entirely to his own shortcomings, was a huge flop.
 

skinsdad62

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Kc isn’t a force multiplier. That’s true but he distributes the ball well and yes he needs a team around him . The Vikings defense was the worst in the NFL ( or near the bottom) and they still won alot of games

if we had signed him to the reasonable contract that was agreed to but nixed by Allen then he would have been a bargain and paid according to his ability
 

j_y19

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Kc isn’t a force multiplier. That’s true but he distributes the ball well and yes he needs a team around him . The Vikings defense was the worst in the NFL ( or near the bottom) and they still won alot of games

if we had signed him to the reasonable contract that was agreed to but nixed by Allen then he would have been a bargain and paid according to his ability
This all true. Yet he was the best we have had here in over a decade. is he a franchise QB? Probably not. yet, he would have made this team better, especially considering the draft capital we have given up since we let him walk.
 

Sportster 72

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It appears that we are left with Kirk farkin Cousins and Warren farkin Moon. You are a standup guy Sty. NOT!!!
 

Stymietee

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Wow. Now that is some revisionists history. Sty, every Point sportster made is valid about your position on cousins. You pick out select posts, but if one desired (which I don’t) they could go back And find slews of posts of you denigrating cousins. It seemed apparent at the time that much of your dismay with his was due to the fact he was replacing Griffin. You couldn’t seem to get past that Griffin was, due entirely to his own shortcomings, was a huge flop.

Is it really too much to ask for a little context on this board, honestly the lack of continued context is one of the reasons why I needed that break! It is sickening how little thought progression there is with some here, or perhaps it's some sort of personal bias that's at play. ( I can live with a personal bias they don't bother me) here's what I mean...

I do not disagree with any statement charging me with denigrating Cousins early on. Cousins' play early on warranted it and I was not alone in making those assessments. That said, what He has charged me within these present posts are "You haven't ever liked Cousins." as if this was some dating site and my preferences didn't match his. Further, he wrote... "I'll play too. First I want to say Warren Moon was a damned good QB. Something you won't say about Cousins." It is a FACT that Kirk Cousins is NOT a damned good QB, this poster seems smitten with him and just can't take control of his emotion when others make sensible, well-supported assessments about Kirk that don't fall in line with his man-love thingy.

Just because some here have convinced themselves that my assessment of Cousins has, have, or had anything to do with Griffin doesn't make it true! In fact, there's a continued counter-argument that can be made that such charges are nothing more than further infatuation with Kirk Cousins and whatever that weird man-love thing happens to be. I made real-time assessments of both Griffin and Cousins, on the former for those who will recall, I repeatedly insisted that he was mishandled...that is just fact! On the latter, my original assessments weren't flattering but they were accurate. As time went on and he became more efficient my assessments changed. This is why I posted those historical posts proving my change from the earlier unflattering ones to ones stating that he is "a pretty good QB." This isn't revisionist history it is actual history but all focus appears to be on ONLY my earlier assessment because apparently, I hurt his feelings with those earlier assessments and he'll never forgive me or he is incapable of accepting a differing assessment from me for being honest about how I once saw and now see Kirk. (personal bias)

If you look at a post on this thread by him it reads:

See, I told you guys they were just alike :D

McCarron--3-6 for 12 yards

Cousins-- 3-8 for 12 yards

Now stop trying to stick it to ole' Sty!

It's really strange how compulsively attached to Kirk Cousins he is! He posted this as if it proves a bias against the guy when in FACT, beyond the line with the grinning emoji, the numbers almost perfectly match, and not one part of it is untrue.

Honestly, I stated at the beginning of my last post that I was doing so against my better judgment and I regret doing it now because I held onto a human but now an apparent unreasonable desire that something about the guy would appeal to his better self... I was wrong, and frankly, respectfully ask to be put back on his "ignore" list.
 

j_y19

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Is it really too much to ask for a little context on this board, honestly the lack of continued context is one of the reasons why I needed that break! It is sickening how little thought progression there is with some here, or perhaps it's some sort of personal bias that's at play. ( I can live with a personal bias they don't bother me) here's what I mean...

I do not disagree with any statement charging me with denigrating Cousins early on. Cousins' play early on warranted it and I was not alone in making those assessments. That said, what He has charged me within these present posts are "You haven't ever liked Cousins." as if this was some dating site and my preferences didn't match his. Further, he wrote... "I'll play too. First I want to say Warren Moon was a damned good QB. Something you won't say about Cousins." It is a FACT that Kirk Cousins is NOT a damned good QB, this poster seems smitten with him and just can't take control of his emotion when others make sensible, well-supported assessments about Kirk that don't fall in line with his man-love thingy.

Just because some here have convinced themselves that my assessment of Cousins has, have, or had anything to do with Griffin doesn't make it true! In fact, there's a continued counter-argument that can be made that such charges are nothing more than further infatuation with Kirk Cousins and whatever that weird man-love thing happens to be. I made real-time assessments of both Griffin and Cousins, on the former for those who will recall, I repeatedly insisted that he was mishandled...that is just fact! On the latter, my original assessments weren't flattering but they were accurate. As time went on and he became more efficient my assessments changed. This is why I posted those historical posts proving my change from the earlier unflattering ones to ones stating that he is "a pretty good QB." This isn't revisionist history it is actual history but all focus appears to be on ONLY my earlier assessment because apparently, I hurt his feelings with those earlier assessments and he'll never forgive me or he is incapable of accepting a differing assessment from me for being honest about how I once saw and now see Kirk. (personal bias)

If you look at a post on this thread by him it reads:

See, I told you guys they were just alike :D

McCarron--3-6 for 12 yards

Cousins-- 3-8 for 12 yards

Now stop trying to stick it to ole' Sty!

It's really strange how compulsively attached to Kirk Cousins he is! He posted this as if it proves a bias against the guy when in FACT, beyond the line with the grinning emoji, the numbers almost perfectly match, and not one part of it is untrue.

Honestly, I stated at the beginning of my last post that I was doing so against my better judgment and I regret doing it now because I held onto a human but now an apparent unreasonable desire that something about the guy would appeal to his better self... I was wrong, and frankly, respectfully ask to be put back on his "ignore" list.
Huh?
 

Sportster 72

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Sty you have no clue about me and never have. You think you do but you are mostly wrong. On that note I am out. You are not worth my time.
 

Skin'EmAll

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Why do you suppose it is that this organization of all organizations has to learn a lesson that has historically been their normal?

This past season especially was strange, from pursuing Wentz, benching him, then trusting him to win what would have been a historic playoff clinching win - all 4 teams in the NFC EAST making the postseason. My stance is, you could've just played Taylor, please don't go sign Matt Ryan and lie to the team saying he's the one. Lesson learned. Such a mind boggling season has to be because of influence from ownership, right?
RR clearly is respected as a HC, no way he really thought it was a good idea to start wentz vs the browns and then give the appearance of not realizing how important it was.....
 

Skin'EmAll

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I honestly believe that Howell should get a shot for the job and there should be real competition drafted... beyond that there's a disconnect on this board with some, my explanation is as follows...

As I read these posts, pro-Howell posters have made it a point to emphasize his once lofty draft position which is OK and basically tells us that he has or had a higher level of QBing pedigree. What that translates into is drafting a similar or better pedigreed player to compete with him, and yet, every posted mock, every non-mock post related to drafting a QB is one that finds this team drafting a guy not even close to what these same posters said about Howell. Now I ask you, how is that real competition?

i'll chime in here -- I'm Rivera, i'm all in on Howell, i want the new owner, new OC and veteran back-up QB to know this.
I'm drafting another QB simply for depth. If somehow the veteran or late-rounder seriously outplay Howell, then he's my guy for the entire season.
IF Howell, after an entire season, fails to lead my squad into the playoffs, i go from there....which is a new team, because im fired.
It's Howell's time
 
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