21-22 Season - Jekyll or Hyde ?

[Chris p Bacon]

Was just reading an article about Hamilton vs Jones. After reading the article, I would say we go after Jones. They say Hamilton will cost 8 million plus a year and Jones would be more around JVRs salary. At this point if we can add Jones and maybe another solid dman, I'd then try to get another solid forward vet that has some winning experiences, we need that in our locker room also. Hamilton puts us in too much of a bad financial spot and just adding him doesn't bring us a cup. Las said it in his post about other teams. Islanders and Bruins are great examples of winning teams with solid blue collar players and just a few stars.

 

[lasgop8]

Was just reading an article about Hamilton vs Jones. After reading the article, I would say we go after Jones. They say Hamilton will cost 8 million plus a year and Jones would be more around JVRs salary. At this point if we can add Jones and maybe another solid dman, I'd then try to get another solid forward vet that has some winning experiences, we need that in our locker room also. Hamilton puts us in too much of a bad financial spot and just adding him doesn't bring us a cup. Las said it in his post about other teams. Islanders and Bruins are great examples of winning teams with solid blue collar players and just a few stars.

I think we may have to go for Jones as Hamilton will almost certainly be resigning with the Canes.

We need Jones or someone like that just cant over pay for him but if they throw in Laine lets break the bank for them.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

I think we may have to go for Jones as Hamilton will almost certainly be resigning with the Canes.

We need Jones or someone like that just cant over pay for him but if they throw in Laine lets break the bank for them.

What or who do you think goes the other way? We don't have to many pieces to get rid of that don't weaken us somewhere else. I think we'd have to give up some younger talent to do this. To bad we cant give them Voracek as part of a deal.

 

[wbon22]

The Flyers need to act this offseason. It really is that simple.
Fletcher can't sit on his hands and mumble to himself. He needs to add a right D to play with Provy who settles the rest of the ice time down for the remaining blue liners. The defense needs to improve as a group on outlet passing and carrying the puck.
The forwards as a group need to work on receiving and retrieving the puck.
If the team can come up with a real 2nd line center, then they can play Hayes in the correct role.
They have to make room for the young forwards. Farabee, Allison, Frost. Don't expect to see Nolan Patrick back. Don't expect to see Lyon or Elliot back.

OF course, this is Fletcher, so anything logical will of course be avoided to embrace inaction.

 

[lasgop8]

What or who do you think goes the other way? We don't have to many pieces to get rid of that don't weaken us somewhere else. I think we'd have to give up some younger talent to do this. To bad we cant give them Voracek as part of a deal.

I think AWAZ put on here that it was suggested that TK Sanheim and a pick go the other way for Jones but id like to sweeten that pot and go for both Jones and Laine.

I would love to just break it up and start over but then Jones probably wont resign with us if we do a rebuild.

 

[lasgop8]

The Flyers need to act this offseason. It really is that simple.
Fletcher can't sit on his hands and mumble to himself. He needs to add a right D to play with Provy who settles the rest of the ice time down for the remaining blue liners. The defense needs to improve as a group on outlet passing and carrying the puck.
The forwards as a group need to work on receiving and retrieving the puck.
If the team can come up with a real 2nd line center, then they can play Hayes in the correct role.
They have to make room for the young forwards. Farabee, Allison, Frost. Don't expect to see Nolan Patrick back. Don't expect to see Lyon or Elliot back.

OF course, this is Fletcher, so anything logical will of course be avoided to embrace inaction.

If Hayes isnt able to play 2nd line center for us we will be paying a third line center 7 million a year. If we are paying that much for a third line center what will we have to pay for the second line center? Our cap cant handle Hayes dropping to third line.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

I think AWAZ put on here that it was suggested that TK Sanheim and a pick go the other way for Jones but id like to sweeten that pot and go for both Jones and Laine.

I would love to just break it up and start over but then Jones probably wont resign with us if we do a rebuild.

That's way to steep of a price for Jones, you're just weakening yourself in other key spots, you get rid of Sanhiem who fills his spot? Myers, Hagg? both are not nhl caliber players, getting rid of this deadweight is a good place to start IMO.

 

[lasgop8]

That's way to steep of a price for Jones, you're just weakening yourself in other key spots, you get rid of Sanhiem who fills his spot? Myers, Hagg? both are not nhl caliber players, getting rid of this deadweight is a good place to start IMO.

Thats fine but we need to do something as getting knocked out in the first round or not making the playoffs is very stale and much like myself the fan base are getting very restless with being in the middle year after year.

 

[awaz]

They definitely have to trim some fat on defense if they want to add 1 or 2 guys there. I think they clearly want a top pair guy. They like Provorov, Sanheim, York, and Braun. That's 5 of your 6. Plus we're talking about a 2nd addition as well, which would be your new top 6. Hagg, Ghost, Myers, Morin, and Zamula are still hanging around the fringe.

The absolute key to this offseason is deciding on the right group of existing d-men, and moving a few of the others.

Zamula I think is destined for the Phantoms. Because of the logjam and because of his size.

The easiest trim is Morin. He's a UFA because he didn't play enough games to stay RFA, I don't see them bringing him back. I like his grit, size, toughness, etc. But I don't see him looking at the logjam on the NHL roster and the contract the Flyers could offer him and him signing up. He's going to be on a very low salary because he hasn't proven anything. If I'm him and I'm going to make low end money regardless, I'm going to a crap team that offers a good shot at consistent playing time.

Next, if you're planning to keep Sanheim and York, plus add a top end guy, I don't think there's room for Ghost. If Seattle doesn't take him, I think you've gotta trade him. Sanheim and York are offensive guys, your top end guy is presumably going to bring some offense. They didn't seem all that keen on playing Ghost on PP1 this year anyway. 4.5M for a 3rd pair, even strength only, offensive defenseman is too much. Maybe you have to eat some of the contract, but there are teams out there that need a good PP QB. In season nobody had the cap space plan to take on that salary. In the offseason I think he can be moved. Last summer I think Fletcher just wanted a better deal than he could find. Ghost was better this year, plus it's a little more important to clear his cap hit. Makes me sad because I like him, but Ghost can, and probably should, be moved.

I think you keep Hagg. Stylistically he's something the Flyers are missing. He can be your insurance against York needing AHL time. Not the same fit obviously, but at least he's an NHL caliber player for your 3rd pair. York makes the squad, Hagg is your 7.

And then there's Myers. 6'5 RH dmen that can skate are a rare breed. He's got 115 NHL games, 44 (this year) of which were atrocious. Because of the former and his relatively good contract (2.25 x 2 more years), I think you'd have no trouble moving him if you wanted to. But those also make him attractive as a "keep and hope he improves" type guy. I think you look at a replacement and use him in part of your trade to get better elsewhere. There are some decent RH free agents that could fit a 3rd pair slot. Kevan Miller in Boston also brings a winning pedigree. Adam Larsson and David Savard are attractive, couldalso push Braun to the 3rd pair where he's better suited. Brandon Montour. If Carolina lets Hakanpaa go, I think he'd be a real nice add with a physical edge. Probably decently cheap.

Provorov - Addition
Sanheim - Braun/Addition
York/Hagg - Braun/Addition

 

[lasgop8]

If we trade Ghost and have to eat some of his salary after finishing 7th in the league in goals by a defenseman and only playin in 41 games our management is terrible. If they trade him we should get equal value back as his stock is higher right now than most of our team. If we have to add him into a trade to get a defenseman to play with Prov id be ok with that as well.

Who would you like to have in the open spot next to Prov and what will it take to fill that vacancy?

 

[awaz]

If we trade Ghost and have to eat some of his salary after finishing 7th in the league in goals by a defenseman and only playin in 41 games our management is terrible. If they trade him we should get equal value back as his stock is higher right now than most of our team. If we have to add him into a trade to get a defenseman to play with Prov id be ok with that as well.

Who would you like to have in the open spot next to Prov and what will it take to fill that vacancy?

Ya, I mean hopefully they don't have to eat any. But if eating 1M or something improves the trade I would consider it. He had a good enough season that they should be able to make a decent hockey deal there.

Of the names that have gone around, my #1 choice is Ellis I think. If Nashville decides to move him. Tons of experience, manageable 6.25M contract, RH, can take top pair minutes, leans offense first, very established in what he is. My #2 choice is Jones. I think he's got an enormous ceiling, but comes with significant risk. But, screw it, they've got to take that chance. If he pans out as a Norris caliber guy, they have one of the best top pairs in hockey that can play 30 minutes a night in the playoffs. If it doesn't, they probably weren't going anywhere anyway so what's the difference? Hamilton is #3, but I think he ends up in Carolina. I've seen Klingberg get mentioned and I think is a decent option as well, I'll put him at #4. I like Ekholm too, but I don't know if he's quite the right fit as LH guy that's not really a top pair guy.

 

[lasgop8]

Ya, I mean hopefully they don't have to eat any. But if eating 1M or something improves the trade I would consider it. He had a good enough season that they should be able to make a decent hockey deal there.

Of the names that have gone around, my #1 choice is Ellis I think. If Nashville decides to move him. Tons of experience, manageable 6.25M contract, RH, can take top pair minutes, leans offense first, very established in what he is. My #2 choice is Jones. I think he's got an enormous ceiling, but comes with significant risk. But, screw it, they've got to take that chance. If he pans out as a Norris caliber guy, they have one of the best top pairs in hockey that can play 30 minutes a night in the playoffs. If it doesn't, they probably weren't going anywhere anyway so what's the difference? Hamilton is #3, but I think he ends up in Carolina. I've seen Klingberg get mentioned and I think is a decent option as well, I'll put him at #4. I like Ekholm too, but I don't know if he's quite the right fit as LH guy that's not really a top pair guy.

I will agree with Ellis as the top pick because he is under contract for a few more years at a decent price and Jones if he agrees to sign and doesnt cost too much. Like you said IMO too Hamilton will be in Carolina and ill take Klingberg any day.

With each of the three situations we have to trade for it messes up your defensive pairings you put together because in all the scenarios i think we will lose Sanheim or York and probably Ghost .

That would make it;

Prov-Ellis/Jones/Klimgberg
York/Sanheim- Braun
York/Sanheim-Hagg

Still not a solid defense.

 

[awaz]

I will agree with Ellis as the top pick because he is under contract for a few more years at a decent price and Jones if he agrees to sign and doesnt cost too much. Like you said IMO too Hamilton will be in Carolina and ill take Klingberg any day.

With each of the three situations we have to trade for it messes up your defensive pairings you put together because in all the scenarios i think we will lose Sanheim or York and probably Ghost .

That would make it;

Prov-Ellis/Jones/Klimgberg
York/Sanheim- Braun
York/Sanheim-Hagg

Still not a solid defense.

I'm with you. I hope they can keep Prov/Sanheim/York and that they can anchor the left side. Make the big addition for 1RD. Then I think they should be looking hard at the like 2nd/3rd tier UFA's, guys that are in the 2-3M range, to go with Braun and 1RD on the right side.

 

[lasgop8]

I'm with you. I hope they can keep Prov/Sanheim/York and that they can anchor the left side. Make the big addition for 1RD. Then I think they should be looking hard at the like 2nd/3rd tier UFA's, guys that are in the 2-3M range, to go with Braun and 1RD on the right side.

Someone brought this guy up the other day (it mightve even been you) : Jamie Oleksiak

Prov- Ellis/Jones/Klinngberg
Oleksiak- Braun
York- Hagg/Myers


Maybe we could pull off something like this?>

All i know is we need to shake things up

 

[awaz]

Someone brought this guy up the other day (it mightve even been you) : Jamie Oleksiak

Prov- Ellis/Jones/Klinngberg
Oleksiak- Braun
York- Hagg/Myers


Maybe we could pull off something like this?>

All i know is we need to shake things up

I won't take credit for that one, but I do like it. I'd be a little concerned with an Oleksiak-Braun second pair, but if you split those guys up and get each of them a more mobile partner I think that could work. In the scenario you posted here, Sanheim goes in the trade for Ellis/Jones/Klingberg? I could see a York-Braun and Oleksiak-Myers pair being a good bottom 4. That Oleksiak-Myers pair could be a handful if Myers gets his head out of his ass. 6'7 250 and 6'5 215, they sure as hell would cover a lot of ground.

I don't want to trade Sanheim. I think the Flyers are under-utilizing him TBH. I really want to see him on the PP. He's only gotten a few stints there, but every time he does they seem to have success. From what I can remember, he was really good at creating zone entries which is often a serious problem for them.

But, you have to give to get. And that 1RD slot has to be filled with a bonafide top 4 guy at least. So if it takes Sanheim, I guess I'm on board.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

I'm with you. I hope they can keep Prov/Sanheim/York and that they can anchor the left side. Make the big addition for 1RD. Then I think they should be looking hard at the like 2nd/3rd tier UFA's, guys that are in the 2-3M range, to go with Braun and 1RD on the right side.

Someone brought this guy up the other day (it mightve even been you) : Jamie Oleksiak

Prov- Ellis/Jones/Klinngberg
Oleksiak- Braun
York- Hagg/Myers


Maybe we could pull off something like this?>

All i know is we need to shake things up

If your gonna go for Ellis, why not try to fill a couple other rooster parts with Savard or Kevan Millar, both are way above what we have in Braun, Hagg and Myers, and they would reasonably affordable too. We need to get stronger on defense period. We do not have the type of offensive players that can play both ways consistently so getting stronger and a little more physical will help.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Also quit bring Myers up in the equation, that dude sucks. I also should note I just said that about Carey Price to and he went all superstar in us soooo...

 

[lasgop8]

If your gonna go for Ellis, why not try to fill a couple other rooster parts with Savard or Kevan Millar, both are way above what we have in Braun, Hagg and Myers, and they would reasonably affordable too. We need to get stronger on defense period. We do not have the type of offensive players that can play both ways consistently so getting stronger and a little more physical will help.

Im good with these guys as well but we still wouldnt have anyone to play with Prov unless we go after all three. Im good with trading for a top line defenseman to play with Prov as well and getting bigger and tougher on the back line through free agency

 

[awaz]

If your gonna go for Ellis, why not try to fill a couple other rooster parts with Savard or Kevan Millar, both are way above what we have in Braun, Hagg and Myers, and they would reasonably affordable too. We need to get stronger on defense period. We do not have the type of offensive players that can play both ways consistently so getting stronger and a little more physical will help.

I talked about moving on from Hagg and Myers both. I think Braun will likely stay. He's got 1 year on his deal, I think he brings a good veteran presence and can play sound defense. He's not a world beater, but if you can get him slotted right on the 3rd pair. I think he's a good fit.

I don't think it's realistic to expect the Flyers to turn over 4 out of 6 d-slots this offseason though. Seems like it maybe shouldn't be that hard, but it never happens in the NHL. So I don't think it's realistic to expect them to do that. I think Provorov and Braun are pretty likely to come back. And I think at least one, of Sanheim or Myers will be on the team too. And I think York makes a run at a spot.

Which leaves two open spots if Sanheim or Myers gets moved. Which is what we've been discussing.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Im good with these guys as well but we still wouldnt have anyone to play with Prov unless we go after all three. Im good with trading for a top line defenseman to play with Prov as well and getting bigger and tougher on the back line through free agency

I was talking about in addition to adding Ellis.