21-22 Season - Jekyll or Hyde ?

[purdue81]

Turning the page away from the 2021 Season

so what will we be talking about a year from now ?

 

[Chris p Bacon]

@awaz need a sticky here, not the other thread lol.

 

[wbon22]

Things I took from the "parting words" that are actually interesting looking forward.
Many of the players who went home couldn't fully train in the offseason and the team as a whole was more impacted by the virus and certain players in particular. The loss of Niskanen had a much larger impact than anticipated across the "slotting" of the defense.

What was interesting to me was the lack of practice and the impact on the team...not the youngsters. That means/implies that the veterans (Cooter, Jake, G, TK, JvR, Hayes, Laught) need to have basic positioning and gap control driven home to them on a regular basis. That the potential threat of a bag skate or having to skate with the 4th line at practice, make some of these players play to a system.

That is a sad thing to hear/read. They are saying that the "mature" players are in fact no more mature than the 1st and 2nd year players.

I think what will be interesting is how some of the RFA's are handled...will Patrick be brought back? Will TK get moved to bring in a defenseman? Will Moose be back?

The Flyers need a mature top pairing right side dman. He doesn't need to be a Norris candidate, he needs to be capable of playing in all three shifts (Even, PP, PK) with Provorov. He needs to be positionally sound. This will allow for the remainder of the defense to be slotted in a manner that is more in accordance with their skill/experience level. That alone will be a HUGE step forward.
They need a true #2 center. Hayes is a 3. Yes, he makes money like a 2, but that doesn't mean he is one. His offensive upside is not that of a top six.
More than anything else, the Flyers need to get harder to play against. How do you do this?
1. Skating. If you outskate/outwork your opponent on every shift,.
2. Hitting. You don't need to put people through the boards or on a stretcher. You finish your check, you lean on your man, you make the other player move to get away from contact.
3. Internal accountability/solidarity. There were very few instances of the Flyers standing up as a team to the one or two "tough" players on the other team or responding as a team to an incident. The greatest deterrent is not a goon, it is knowing that no matter who you hit, someone is going to hit you...and you don't know who it is going to be.

Let's get it going!!

 

[awaz]

@awaz need a sticky here, not the other thread lol.

Done!

 

[awaz]

IMO they need

1. A top pair defensemen
2. A winner. Preferably more than one.
3. Someone that is electric. Either a speedster that can create a goal out of nothing. Or someone that will blow up an opponent on a given shift to get the energy going. The Flyers are painfully boring. Even the guys that should be their best players, Couturier, Provorov, Giroux, Hart are boring. I think that hurts the players just as much as it annoys the fans. TK was that for them in 19-20, but he didn't bring that same energy in 20-21. If he can next season, that counts.
4. Something to help the breakout of the d-zone. Either guys that bring a physical element to make forwards think twice. Or someone that can move the puck out quickly against a heavy forecheck.

To address those things, they need cap space. Seattle taking JvR is the best avenue to that IMO. I wouldn't give up the moon, but if it takes a mid-level asset to guarantee it, I think they have to. Having Seattle take a low cap hit would be crippling to Fletcher's ability to address the roster's weaknesses.

 

[lasgop8]

Things I took from the "parting words" that are actually interesting looking forward.
Many of the players who went home couldn't fully train in the offseason and the team as a whole was more impacted by the virus and certain players in particular. The loss of Niskanen had a much larger impact than anticipated across the "slotting" of the defense.

What was interesting to me was the lack of practice and the impact on the team...not the youngsters. That means/implies that the veterans (Cooter, Jake, G, TK, JvR, Hayes, Laught) need to have basic positioning and gap control driven home to them on a regular basis. That the potential threat of a bag skate or having to skate with the 4th line at practice, make some of these players play to a system.

That is a sad thing to hear/read. They are saying that the "mature" players are in fact no more mature than the 1st and 2nd year players.

I think what will be interesting is how some of the RFA's are handled...will Patrick be brought back? Will TK get moved to bring in a defenseman? Will Moose be back?

The Flyers need a mature top pairing right side dman. He doesn't need to be a Norris candidate, he needs to be capable of playing in all three shifts (Even, PP, PK) with Provorov. He needs to be positionally sound. This will allow for the remainder of the defense to be slotted in a manner that is more in accordance with their skill/experience level. That alone will be a HUGE step forward.
They need a true #2 center. Hayes is a 3. Yes, he makes money like a 2, but that doesn't mean he is one. His offensive upside is not that of a top six.
More than anything else, the Flyers need to get harder to play against. How do you do this?
1. Skating. If you outskate/outwork your opponent on every shift,.
2. Hitting. You don't need to put people through the boards or on a stretcher. You finish your check, you lean on your man, you make the other player move to get away from contact.
3. Internal accountability/solidarity. There were very few instances of the Flyers standing up as a team to the one or two "tough" players on the other team or responding as a team to an incident. The greatest deterrent is not a goon, it is knowing that no matter who you hit, someone is going to hit you...and you don't know who it is going to be.

Let's get it going!!

4- Get bigger and meaner players, for example Hathaway Richie Martin up front Dillon Hakanpaa Clutterbuck

 

[lasgop8]

IMO they need

1. A top pair defensemen
2. A winner. Preferably more than one.
3. Someone that is electric. Either a speedster that can create a goal out of nothing. Or someone that will blow up an opponent on a given shift to get the energy going. The Flyers are painfully boring. Even the guys that should be their best players, Couturier, Provorov, Giroux, Hart are boring. I think that hurts the players just as much as it annoys the fans. TK was that for them in 19-20, but he didn't bring that same energy in 20-21. If he can next season, that counts.
4. Something to help the breakout of the d-zone. Either guys that bring a physical element to make forwards think twice. Or someone that can move the puck out quickly against a heavy forecheck.

To address those things, they need cap space. Seattle taking JvR is the best avenue to that IMO. I wouldn't give up the moon, but if it takes a mid-level asset to guarantee it, I think they have to. Having Seattle take a low cap hit would be crippling to Fletcher's ability to address the roster's weaknesses.

Getting cap space is the key to any moves we could do to turn this team into a cup contender so be prepared for more mediocrity for a couple more years

 

[mall3013]

HockeyBuzz.com - NHL Rumors

www.hockeybuzz.com

Bill pretty much nailed it imo. His opinion on who to protect is along with most of us.

 

[lasgop8]

HockeyBuzz.com - NHL Rumors

www.hockeybuzz.com

Bill pretty much nailed it imo. His opinion on who to protect is along with most of us.

I might flip Ghost and Myers.

 

[mall3013]

I might flip Ghost and Myers.

We may not need to. For example, if the Kraken take Voracek or JvR they get an experienced good player with a high cap which they need to get to the cap floor anyway. They need to at least be competitive as well.

 

[lasgop8]

We may not need to. For example, if the Kraken take Voracek or JvR they get an experienced good player with a high cap which they need to get to the cap floor anyway. They need to at least be competitive as well.

If you leave Ghost unprotected you are giving them leverage to say we will take Ghost but if you give us a draft pick we will take JVR.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Okay, let's discuss defense going forward. Only guys I see that are worth anything back there is Provy, and Sanheim, if York makes the team he may be able to play with Sanheim on the 2nd pairing. So you def need to fill a top dman spot to play with Provy, that leaves you Myer, Morin, Hagg and Ghost. Out of those 4 I gotta go with Ghost and Morin as our 3rd d pairing. Ghost IMO while not spectacular last season, he was by far not the worst, with Morin you get some toughness and physicality and he is no more a liability than Hagg or Myers. If we could bring in a #1 guy and another solid defensive guy I'd like it better, but....

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Also Giroux says he wants to retire as a Flyer, I give him that respect but I think he should take a reduced deal to free up more cap money for the electric guy @awaz was eluding to earlier.

 

[mall3013]

If you leave Ghost unprotected you are giving them leverage to say we will take Ghost but if you give us a draft pick we will take JVR.

Let them take Ghost. I'm not giving the Kraken any picks. There is a very good chance they take either Jake or JvR. I guess only time will tell.

 

[lasgop8]

Okay, let's discuss defense going forward. Only guys I see that are worth anything back there is Provy, and Sanheim, if York makes the team he may be able to play with Sanheim on the 2nd pairing. So you def need to fill a top dman spot to play with Provy, that leaves you Myer, Morin, Hagg and Ghost. Out of those 4 I gotta go with Ghost and Morin as our 3rd d pairing. Ghost IMO while not spectacular last season, he was by far not the worst, with Morin you get some toughness and physicality and he is no more a liability than Hagg or Myers. If we could bring in a #1 guy and another solid defensive guy I'd like it better, but....

It depends on how much money we have to spend then we can search for free agents or make a trade or both if we have the money to spend

 

[awaz]

I might flip Ghost and Myers.

JMO, but I think Myers is more likely to get taken by the Kraken than Ghost. Myers had an absolutely dreadful year this year, no question about it. And realistically, didn't belong in the NHL. And I would absolutely rather have Ghost in the lineup than him.

But last year Myers was pretty good. He's 24, 6'5, 215, RH, and is an excellent skater. He's basically played 50 good NHL games and 50 bad NHL games. Meanwhile Ghost I think everyone agrees is overpaid at 4.5M for 3 more seasons.

I think Seattle would be more interested in gambling on Myers than they would be in taking Ghost. Because of that, I think you protect Myers. Plus then your theoretical worst case of Seattle taking Ghost instead of Jake/Jvr, still saves 4.5M in cap space.

 

[awaz]

Also Giroux says he wants to retire as a Flyer, I give him that respect but I think he should take a reduced deal to free up more cap money for the electric guy @awaz was eluding to earlier.

I think he will have to take a reduced deal, with the Flyers or elsewhere, when his deal is up at the end of the next season. He's just not an 8.25M player anymore. But they can't renegotiate his current deal even if he was willing to.

 

[awaz]

Okay, let's discuss defense going forward. Only guys I see that are worth anything back there is Provy, and Sanheim, if York makes the team he may be able to play with Sanheim on the 2nd pairing. So you def need to fill a top dman spot to play with Provy, that leaves you Myer, Morin, Hagg and Ghost. Out of those 4 I gotta go with Ghost and Morin as our 3rd d pairing. Ghost IMO while not spectacular last season, he was by far not the worst, with Morin you get some toughness and physicality and he is no more a liability than Hagg or Myers. If we could bring in a #1 guy and another solid defensive guy I'd like it better, but....

I think Fletcher has his work cut out for him this offseason. He's gotta decide what these guys are and make the tweaks necessary. The two biggest disappointments for me this year were Myers and Provorov. Myers was a train wreck. And Provorov just wasn't solid. He turned the puck over constantly. Flubbed pucks frequently. And honestly I lay a lot of the PP struggles at his feet. He's just not dynamic QB'ing the PP. He's got a good shot that gets through, but he's a robot otherwise.

If I'm looking at the defense, I look at Provorov as a #2 dman. Which really hurts. Looking for a top pair guy is one thing. Looking for a #1 is another level. Maybe they can make it work with two #2's on the top pair, but it won't be the strength of the team in th at case.

Sanheim I think is a solid #3. He had his ups and downs, but he played a lot with Myers that I think messed with his head. Give him a steady partner and I think he can hold down #3.

Braun I think is a fine #5. He had a pretty solid year all things considered. He stabilized whichever pair he was on and honestly, his pair was probably the Flyers best pair on most nights. Granted, he played a lot of the 2nd half with the Flyers best dman in Provorov, but I thought Braun was good this year. I'm comfortable with him as a #5. He can be pushed into #4 role probably, but it wouldn't be ideal.

After that is where it gets tough. Morin and Hagg are #6's at best to me. I like Morin's physicality and size, particularly for the PK. But he certainly hasn't locked down a spot in the lineup to me. Hagg is what he is. I think if you don't have Morin in the lineup, you should probably have Hagg in there. I like Ghost as a 3rd pairing guy. Perhaps another #5 because he is dynamic on the PP. Given 3rd pair minutes/matchups and 1PP shifts, I think you can hide his weaknesses and utilize his strengths. Problem is, all 3 of these guys are LH. Ghost does OK on the right, so maybe he's your 3rd pair RHD. The question becomes, what do you do with Myers? He certainly wasn't good enough to play top 4 minutes this season. A Ghost/Myers pair would be a disaster. You want the physicality of Hagg or Morin in the lineup. So Myers essentially doesn't fit.

York and Zamula I don't think you can count on right away. Maybe they blow the doors off in camp, but do you go into the season with that as your plan? I don't think you can after how this season played out.

Like Fletcher said in previous press conferences, the mix just isn't right on the Flyers D. They have too many LH guys and too many guys that can be a liability defensively. There's only 1 Braun to stabilize a pair with. And Hagg/Morin have pretty significant limitations.

Provorov - XXX
Sanheim - Braun
Ghost - York/Myers/Morin/Hagg/Zamula

It just doesn't look good however you slice it up.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

I think he will have to take a reduced deal, with the Flyers or elsewhere, when his deal is up at the end of the next season. He's just not an 8.25M player anymore. But they can't renegotiate his current deal even if he was willing to.

Sorry, I meant when his contract is up. Right now we have to hope the Kraken take Jake or JVR, somehow we need to load up for that stud Dman, unfortunately it doesn't leave a lot for that electric player we need to. Hopefully guys like Farabee and Allison aren't just flash in the pan type guys. We def need more scoring balance. My main concern for this season will be addressing our defense. If we do that and our forwards play A LOT better then I think we can still compete, then like I said if you can free up that extra cash with a new Giroux deal then I think we're set.

 

[mall3013]

I'm hoping Fletcher can get the cap space and go all in on Dougie Hamilton this ofgseason. I'm assuming we will unload a big contract through the expansion draft Kraken. If we fail there, I would start sniffing around the Blue Jackets Seth Jones situation. If he doesn't resign, maybe they would seek a trade?

 

[awaz]

I'm hoping Fletcher can get the cap space and go all in on Dougie Hamilton this ofgseason. I'm assuming we will unload a big contract through the expansion draft Kraken. If we fail there, I would start sniffing around the Blue Jackets Seth Jones situation. If he doesn't resign, maybe they would seek a trade?

Hamilton is definitely the top choice. If Jones doesn’t resign and the Jackets want to move him, he’d be 1A.

Ellis, Klingberg and Ekholm would be the other options I think. The plan B guys.