2024 Rosterbation

[calsnowskier]

So Beck has an “aneurysm” in his arm.

WTF does that even mean? It sounds serious, but i have no idea.

 

[tzill]

So Beck has an “aneurysm” in his arm.

WTF does that even mean? It sounds serious, but i have no idea.

He's going to miss a significant part of the season. FZ, get a SP now.

 

[LHG]

My top 5 starting pitchers on the market:
1. Montgomery
2. Lorenzen
3. Clevinger
4. Snell
5. Greinke

At this point, FZ needs to sign one of them, at least. Unless it is truly a rebuilding year, then just roll with what we got. Ray and Cobb will be back mid season and it gives the Giants to really check out the starting pitching in the upper minors.

 

[calsnowskier]

With Beck likely going to the 60-day IL, that does give us some roster flexibility to sign one of the “big” FAs still remaining, or, better yet, pick up a scrub from the waiver wire…

 

[filosofy29]

With Beck likely going to the 60-day IL, that does give us some roster flexibility to sign one of the “big” FAs still remaining, or, better yet, pick up a scrub from the waiver wire…

From the moves (so far), it looks to me that Farhan is trying to appear that we are still trying to compete today, but really, we can’t catch the Dodgers until the future so let’s be financially flexible. I could be wrong tho.

 

[calsnowskier]

From the moves (so far), it looks to me that Farhan is trying to appear that we are still trying to compete today, but really, we can’t catch the Dodgers until the future so let’s be financially flexible. I could be wrong tho.

And the Snakes are set with youth. They likely can’t compete with the dogs during the regular season, but anything can happen in the playoffs. And the Snakes are set to compete for the next 3 or 4 seasons.

The Giants MIGHT be able to compete for the 2nd or 3rd WC spot, but they don’t have anything past Webb to rely on for a deep playoff run. MAYBE Lee or Lucy or Bailey can step up to be “that guy”, but I am not putting money on that take.

 

[stanford the manford]

And the Snakes are set with youth. They likely can’t compete with the dogs during the regular season, but anything can happen in the playoffs. And the Snakes are set to compete for the next 3 or 4 seasons.

The Giants MIGHT be able to compete for the 2nd or 3rd WC spot, but they don’t have anything past Webb to rely on for a deep playoff run. MAYBE Lee or Lucy or Bailey can step up to be “that guy”, but I am not putting money on that take.

Let's be honest. '24 isn't going to happen unless it's another fluke season. Unless we see some of the 'yuths' make tremendous gains, '25 won't be significantly better. The 'vets' (Yaz, Flowers, Late Night...) aren't going to magically transform into elite players.

If Jong-hoo Lee lives up to his pub we have a few potential position keepers to build around. Lee, Soler, Estrada (assuming he continues to progress), and possibly Bailey. We need more as in a few who at least track to all-pro potential. This is the same situation we been in since '17. So, JMO, fill out the roster as necessary to field a team. But, don't bring anybody in who will clog the roster or salary cap who isn't all-pro projection '26 and beyond. Other teams (Atlanta, Az, Balt...) seem to have a long term vision. We don't and we haven't for a long time.

I'd rather see a few years where we are out of the playoffs, but have at least some players who might be the core going forward. I don't want to see continuing mid-to-low tier hopefuls who are likely only going to be here 2-3yrs when we aren't competing. More Wade Mechlers' are not the answer

But my god at least play some brand of baseball that's somewhat engaging with players who are have a pulse.

I fear FZ is just trying to save his job year-to-year by dangling promises and hope to the management group that he cannot deliver.

Developing, predicting, and acquiring talent is a crap shoot. Appears we are below the Mendoza line. Haven't seen any indication of improvement

/glass-less-than-half-full rant/

 

[calsnowskier]

As we have spoken about multiple times this off season, the Giants have a culture of not producing from the farm. There are a couple fluke spikes like the mid-80s and the late 00’s, but outside of those two spikes, and a couple one-offs here and there, our farm has been dry. And deeper analytics and studies prove this to be the case. This is not a basic opinion that every fanbase legit has about their team. We are, pretty unarguably, the worst farm team in all of baseball historically. THAT needs to change. One way or the other. Until that changes, we are just spinning our wheels.

 

[SF11704]

As we have spoken about multiple times this off season, the Giants have a culture of not producing from the farm. There are a couple fluke spikes like the mid-80s and the late 00’s, but outside of those two spikes, and a couple one-offs here and there, our farm has been dry. And deeper analytics and studies prove this to be the case. This is not a basic opinion that every fanbase legit has about their team. We are, pretty unarguably, the worst farm team in all of baseball historically. THAT needs to change. One way or the other. Until that changes, we are just spinning our wheels.

I agree with the genaral thoughts but I also think we are missing the whole idea of vision. You need to have a base idea of what you want and then a plan to get there. Just don't see any vision.

As much as I hate the doggies I also have to applaud their success. Over the last decade they have won more than 950 games. About as close to perfection as you can get for seasonal play. This year they sign both Ohtani and Yamamoro. Two long term building blocks. They also upgrade some everyday positions as well. They damn well have a vision and know how to execute it. I think someone stated before what our real core issue ... FZ lives in the moment. Hes looking at 2024 and no further. IMHO our 2021 season may have contributed to this mess. Nothing to fix after winning 107 games ...

 

[sf1giantfan]

My top 5 starting pitchers on the market:
1. Montgomery
2. Lorenzen
3. Clevinger
4. Snell
5. Greinke

At this point, FZ needs to sign one of them, at least. Unless it is truly a rebuilding year, then just roll with what we got. Ray and Cobb will be back mid season and it gives the Giants to really check out the starting pitching in the upper minors.

Front office will start from the bottom of that list.

 

[Stokes1931]

So Beck has an “aneurysm” in his arm.

WTF does that even mean? It sounds serious, but i have no idea.

An aneurysm is an outward bulging, likened to a bubble or balloon, caused by a localized, abnormal, weak spot on a blood vessel wall. Aneurysms may be a result of a hereditary condition or an acquired disease. Aneurysms can also be a nidus for clot formation and embolization. (Wiki)

My mom had an aortic aneurysm which was carefully watched but never got worse. Her doctor told her that most people have these sorts of aneurysms somewhere in their body, but most are too small to bother with. The danger is either a clot or a rupture. In a place like an arm, especially one regularly used with the violence of throwing a 95 mph pitch, the danger seems very real.

Rotten news for the Giants. Hope Beck has successful treatment and he has a long life. A great pitching season for the Giants would be a bonus.

 

[tzill]

My top 5 starting pitchers on the market:
1. Montgomery
2. Lorenzen
3. Clevinger
4. Snell
5. Greinke

At this point, FZ needs to sign one of them, at least. Unless it is truly a rebuilding year, then just roll with what we got. Ray and Cobb will be back mid season and it gives the Giants to really check out the starting pitching in the upper minors.

This is silly. Snell is much better than Clevinger or Lorenzen.

Still, I'd be ok with either of them in place of Snell.

 

[tzill]

Let's be honest. '24 isn't going to happen unless it's another fluke season. Unless we see some of the 'yuths' make tremendous gains, '25 won't be significantly better. The 'vets' (Yaz, Flowers, Late Night...) aren't going to magically transform into elite players.

If Jong-hoo Lee lives up to his pub we have a few potential position keepers to build around. Lee, Soler, Estrada (assuming he continues to progress), and possibly Bailey. We need more as in a few who at least track to all-pro potential. This is the same situation we been in since '17. So, JMO, fill out the roster as necessary to field a team. But, don't bring anybody in who will clog the roster or salary cap who isn't all-pro projection '26 and beyond. Other teams (Atlanta, Az, Balt...) seem to have a long term vision. We don't and we haven't for a long time.

I'd rather see a few years where we are out of the playoffs, but have at least some players who might be the core going forward. I don't want to see continuing mid-to-low tier hopefuls who are likely only going to be here 2-3yrs when we aren't competing. More Wade Mechlers' are not the answer

But my god at least play some brand of baseball that's somewhat engaging with players who are have a pulse.

I fear FZ is just trying to save his job year-to-year by dangling promises and hope to the management group that he cannot deliver.

Developing, predicting, and acquiring talent is a crap shoot. Appears we are below the Mendoza line. Haven't seen any indication of improvement

/glass-less-than-half-full rant/

Absolutely silly rant.

You have NO IDEA how 24 is going to play out. What if Webb needs TJ in May and Lee tears his achilles?

What if Lee is an all star along with Harry and Bailey, and Whiz comes up and dominates?

Yet, you're projecting a shitty 25?

This is so you. You're in midseason form - you don't even need ST.

 

[LHG]

This is silly. Snell is much better than Clevinger or Lorenzen.

Still, I'd be ok with either of them in place of Snell.

Wasn't based purely on talent. Mainly based on talent to cost ratio.

 

[calsnowskier]

This is silly. Snell is much better than Clevinger or Lorenzen.

Still, I'd be ok with either of them in place of Snell.

Snell likely comes with longer, more restrictive contract, though. If we plan to be competitive in 3 years (for example), do we really want an albatross contract smacking us then for a minor, pointless improvement this season?

 

[LHG]

Snell likely comes with longer, more restrictive contract, though. If we plan to be competitive in 3 years (for example), do we really want an albatross contract smacking us then for a minor, pointless improvement this season?

Thus the reason I bumped him down to 4 on my list. Not a whole lot else to consider on the market besides those 5.

Edit: I guess there are a couple more but this is my 6-10 if compiling a top 10 remaining free agent starters (which I guess I am with this post):
6. Rich Hill
7. Johnny Cueto
8. Jake Odorizzi
9. Brad Keller
10. Noah Syndergaard
For reference, those outside the top 10: Vince Velasquez, Matthew Boyd, Eric Lauer, Madison Bumgarner, Dallas Keuchel, Tommy Milone, Drew Rucinski

 

[SF11704]

Snell likely comes with longer, more restrictive contract, though. If we plan to be competitive in 3 years (for example), do we really want an albatross contract smacking us then for a minor, pointless improvement this season?

This statement (in part) is what I think all of us are struggling with ,,, and actually don't all with each other either ...

I don't believe that FZ is looking at a 3 year window. I think he is looking at a WC position right now. Having gotten Lee and Soler I think he feels we have fixed the offense too some degree (and he has) ... it's the pitching that is questionable. Nothing after Webb ... but both Cobb and Ray are in the wings ,,, but still a gamble in his mind. Both are coming off injuries. Snell (in his mind) would be a tremendous acquisition to have sitting behind Webb in the rotation. Snell would provide some insurance (providing we have CY Snell versus 4th liner Snell) if either Cobb or Ray have some issues.
I don't think he is not looking at a rebuild at all ... I think he sees us as a WC contender with Snell ... All the others are good ... but He thinks Snell is the answer ... just my take on what's happening

 

[calsnowskier]

This statement (in part) is what I think all of us are struggling with ,,, and actually don't all with each other either ...

I don't believe that FZ is looking at a 3 year window. I think he is looking at a WC position right now. Having gotten Lee and Soler I think he feels we have fixed the offense too some degree (and he has) ... it's the pitching that is questionable. Nothing after Webb ... but both Cobb and Ray are in the wings ,,, but still a gamble in his mind. Both are coming off injuries. Snell (in his mind) would be a tremendous acquisition to have sitting behind Webb in the rotation. Snell would provide some insurance (providing we have CY Snell versus 4th liner Snell) if either Cobb or Ray have some issues.
I don't think he is not looking at a rebuild at all ... I think he sees us as a WC contender with Snell ... All the others are good ... but He thinks Snell is the answer ... just my take on what's happening

My only argument with this is that is have zero expectations for Ray this season and very low expectations for Cobb.

Ray is coming off TJ. While pitchers often come back from TJ, they typically are ineffective their first season back.

Cobb is also coming off a major injury (hip surgery) and is ancient. And, it isn’t unheard of that when an older pitcher has a big, stressful game, their career is essentially over afterward as they leave everything on the field, “for the love of the game”. I called it when it happened, and unfortunately, it is looking more and more like I was right.

 

[sf1giantfan]

I have more confidence in Monty taking us to the promised land.

 

[SF11704]

My only argument with this is that is have zero expectations for Ray this season and very low expectations for Cobb.

Ray is coming off TJ. While pitchers often come back from TJ, they typically are ineffective their first season back.

Cobb is also coming off a major injury (hip surgery) and is ancient. And, it isn’t unheard of that when an older pitcher has a big, stressful game, their career is essentially over afterward as they leave everything on the field, “for the love of the game”. I called it when it happened, and unfortunately, it is looking more and more like I was right.

I agree 1000% .... I think this is all FZ rolling the dice and trying to give management something .... I think his job is probably on the line at this point ,,, 5 years with little or no improvement .... but .... as you said .... the real gamble is Cobb and Ray ,,, ....