2016 Rosterbation

[LHG]

Anyone else wondered if the Giants will negotiate a long term deal with Crawford, and, if so, how it will impact what free agents they pursue?

 

[SFGRTB]

Anyone else wondered if the Giants will negotiate a long term deal with Crawford, and, if so, how it will impact what free agents they pursue?

I thought they might have last offseason. After the year he had, it makes it a little more complicated. All indicators though are that Craw is a franchise guy, he'll be open to an extension and the Giants want him around.

The Giants' top prospect is a SS (who looks like he's sticking at the position for now), so the Giants do have some leverage there. I think an extension is all but guaranteed though, and if Arroyo is the deal, it'll be pretty easy to find a good trade partner for either Craw or Arroyo.

 

[MarcoPolo]

The current CBA expires after this season. There is no way the MLBPA Willa loo was he cap to remain the same with the way the local TV deals are exploding.

Hmmm...

Now that I think about this topic, I think it is time for a new thread...

Damn you autocorrect !!

 

[MarcoPolo]

Anyone else wondered if the Giants will negotiate a long term deal with Crawford, and, if so, how it will impact what free agents they pursue?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants try to sign a MadBum-type deal : slow increases, lock him up thru arb or arb+1, and then an option year or two. ( ? $5M, $6M, $7.5M, option(s) at $9M & $10M )

If they can get a contract like that, it would affect this off-season much at all. And since there are almost no players signed past 2017 (except option years for some players) they have the long-term flexibility.

Arroyo doesn't *have* to be a full-time ML player until 2020 (2016 last no-option year, then added to 40-man & three option years) so he shouldn't be 'blocked' at all, even if he sticks at SS (so long as Craw gets a max of 5 years on his contract).

 

[Hangman]

Giants Want To Extend Brandon Crawfords Contract - RealGM Wiretap

 

[calsnowskier]

Damn you autocorrect !!

LOL

I hadnt noticed that one. They are funny sometimes, though

 

[LHG]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants try to sign a MadBum-type deal : slow increases, lock him up thru arb or arb+1, and then an option year or two. ( ? $5M, $6M, $7.5M, option(s) at $9M & $10M )

If they can get a contract like that, it would affect this off-season much at all. And since there are almost no players signed past 2017 (except option years for some players) they have the long-term flexibility.

Arroyo doesn't *have* to be a full-time ML player until 2020 (2016 last no-option year, then added to 40-man & three option years) so he shouldn't be 'blocked' at all, even if he sticks at SS (so long as Craw gets a max of 5 years on his contract).

I would love to see Crawford signed to a deal like Bumgarner's. However, I think the difference on when Bumgarner signed his extension versus where Crawford is at in his career would probably prohibit that from happening. Bumgarner was 21 years old and just coming off his first full season in the big leagues when he signed his 6 year contract. Crawford, however, is almost 29 and completed his 4th full big league season.

It made sense for Bumgarner is sign the deal. While he performed well, there was the unknown that he would stay healthy and productive (and by that, I mean as a general rule for any young player just starting out his big league career, regardless of talent level) by the front office. On his end, his contract would pay him a typical salary for a 3rd year big leaguer and then begin to escalate the next three years.

Why I don't think it makes sense for Crawford is that he already saw a significant raise through the arbitration process (meaning, he got a significant bump to avoid arbitration) and considering his great 2015 season, he is in line for another large bump in pay. I would think an extension would have to start at $6 million for 2016 ($7 million more likely) and then moving up toward $12 million per year at the end (or as high as $15 million). While our numbers aren't that different, I think an extension isn't going to be as team friendly as you suggest for 2016 because I get the feeling my numbers for an extension would be low.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I would love to see Crawford signed to a deal like Bumgarner's. However, I think the difference on when Bumgarner signed his extension versus where Crawford is at in his career would probably prohibit that from happening. Bumgarner was 21 years old and just coming off his first full season in the big leagues when he signed his 6 year contract. Crawford, however, is almost 29 and completed his 4th full big league season.

It made sense for Bumgarner is sign the deal. While he performed well, there was the unknown that he would stay healthy and productive (and by that, I mean as a general rule for any young player just starting out his big league career, regardless of talent level) by the front office. On his end, his contract would pay him a typical salary for a 3rd year big leaguer and then begin to escalate the next three years.

Why I don't think it makes sense for Crawford is that he already saw a significant raise through the arbitration process (meaning, he got a significant bump to avoid arbitration) and considering his great 2015 season, he is in line for another large bump in pay. I would think an extension would have to start at $6 million for 2016 ($7 million more likely) and then moving up toward $12 million per year at the end (or as high as $15 million). While our numbers aren't that different, I think an extension isn't going to be as team friendly as you suggest for 2016 because I get the feeling my numbers for an extension would be low.

I can see the logic, but if Craw is going to basically get the same amount he'd get in arb, why would the Giants guarantee him money? It's a give/give situation : Craw gets a guaranteed (say) 18M over 3 years, but he gives up a little per year that he might get in arb for that guarantee.

The real issue is whether 2015 Craw is the one we'll see moving forward, or is it the best offensive season of his career? (He hit 21 HRs in 2015 - that's just 2 less than the total HRs in the previous 3 seasons added together!) So that's the issue for both the team and Crawford - what is in the future? Do the Giants think Craw has peaked? Does Craw think he can continue to improve and get more and more money each year? Every year he waits, every season that Arroyo puts up a great performance, lessens the odds that Craw will be here after 2017.

 

[SFGRTB]

The Giants, like me, DID feel they needed to look at someone to back up 1st. He doubles as a power threat. Parker and Blanks coming off the bench is some serious pop!

 

[LHG]

I can see the logic, but if Craw is going to basically get the same amount he'd get in arb, why would the Giants guarantee him money? It's a give/give situation : Craw gets a guaranteed (say) 18M over 3 years, but he gives up a little per year that he might get in arb for that guarantee.

The real issue is whether 2015 Craw is the one we'll see moving forward, or is it the best offensive season of his career? (He hit 21 HRs in 2015 - that's just 2 less than the total HRs in the previous 3 seasons added together!) So that's the issue for both the team and Crawford - what is in the future? Do the Giants think Craw has peaked? Does Craw think he can continue to improve and get more and more money each year? Every year he waits, every season that Arroyo puts up a great performance, lessens the odds that Craw will be here after 2017.

And those are questions that the front office will mull over when they consider how serious they are to sign him to an extension. My main point in bringing this up was to consider this extension as part of the possible dealings of the off season and that it may impact who else they sign.

 

[LHG]

The Giants, like me, DID feel they needed to look at someone to back up 1st. He doubles as a power threat. Parker and Blanks coming off the bench is some serious pop!

I've always liked Kyle Blanks and he brings some versatility to the bench, just not sure how good he is defensively anywhere. His main problem is health. I'm not sure he's had a professional season where he hasn't missed a good chunk of time due to injuries (probably 2007 and 2008). The Giants will need insurance for this insurance.

Still not sure, though, why they need a back up 1st baseman unless Belt will be gone and Posey slides over to 1st.

 

[calsnowskier]

The Giants, like me, DID feel they needed to look at someone to back up 1st. He doubles as a power threat. Parker and Blanks coming off the bench is some serious pop!

Blanks is a big boy, and he CAN hit the ball a long way. The prob is, he is super injury prone.

I realize this is a no-risk, big reward signing, but we need sure thing producers, not the latest version of Hicks or Maxwell. Blanks is a risk in that he offers a safety net in case we don't get a REAL bat option.

 

[SFGRTB]

I've always liked Kyle Blanks and he brings some versatility to the bench, just not sure how good he is defensively anywhere. His main problem is health. I'm not sure he's had a professional season where he hasn't missed a good chunk of time due to injuries (probably 2007 and 2008). The Giants will need insurance for this insurance.

Still not sure, though, why they need a back up 1st baseman unless Belt will be gone and Posey slides over to 1st.

He's actually okay in the field in that he's not going to kill you. Maybe this is the Giants backup plan if other deals fall through, or the Giants go all in on 2 top of the line SPs and don't leave room in the budget for a LFer.

I too liked Blanks a lot but am scared of his injuries. Wouldn't feel all that comfortable if he's the starting guy in LF going into April.

He's probably Byrd's replacement, and Parker/Williamson are his insurance, and Belt's backup.

 

[LHG]

He's actually okay in the field in that he's not going to kill you. Maybe this is the Giants backup plan if other deals fall through, or the Giants go all in on 2 top of the line SPs and don't leave room in the budget for a LFer.

I too liked Blanks a lot but am scared of his injuries. Wouldn't feel all that comfortable if he's the starting guy in LF going into April.

He's probably Byrd's replacement, and Parker/Williamson are his insurance, and Belt's backup.

It is that last point that makes me confused. If that is indeed the Giants' view on one of Blank's benefits, then why keep Belt? I say that because the Giants played Posey quite a bit, before Belt went down at the end of the season, at 1st base. Where do they play him on his off days from catcher - third base?!?!?

 

[Stokes1931]

It is that last point that makes me confused. If that is indeed the Giants' view on one of Blank's benefits, then why keep Belt? I say that because the Giants played Posey quite a bit, before Belt went down at the end of the season, at 1st base. Where do they play him on his off days from catcher - third base?!?!?

Dude, don't get Mays-Fan started.....

 

[filosofy29]

Not really for or against the Blanks signing. Could be good, but most likely will be Justin Maxwell 2.0. That said, I'm getting antsy on the pitching situation, .

Every day that Leake hasn't signed makes me think he may not be coming back. If I'm the Dodgers, I tell Greinke to go fish for the best offer and then "we'll beat it".

We'll see, but I have a feeling it's gonna be something like a Parra, Leake/Shark, Fister offseason. (Unless trades are explored)

Alright, I think thats out of my system now.

 

[tzill]

Not really for or against the Blanks signing. Could be good, but most likely will be Justin Maxwell 2.0. That said, I'm getting antsy on the pitching situation, .

Every day that Leake hasn't signed makes me think he may not be coming back. If I'm the Dodgers, I tell Greinke to go fish for the best offer and then "we'll beat it".

We'll see, but I have a feeling it's gonna be something like a Parra, Leake/Shark, Fister offseason. (Unless trades are explored)

Alright, I think thats out of my system now.

I was hearing on the radio yesterday that Greinke has told the doyers that he won't be coming back. Haven't confirmed it yet.

 

[filosofy29]

I was hearing on the radio yesterday that Greinke has told the doyers that he won't be coming back. Haven't confirmed it yet.

While that is music to my ears. I have to think that's false unless it was a slip of the tongue by his wife or sinething of that magnitude. Even if Greinke feels that way in his heart, why would he rule out his biggest, richest suitor and lose all that leverage?

Believe me, I hope you're right, but that doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[dredinis21]

I was hearing on the radio yesterday that Greinke has told the doyers that he won't be coming back. Haven't confirmed it yet.

Tzill, perhaps I can shed some insight on how that actually may be plausible. I live in LA so I listen to a lot local circle jerk sports talk and here are a couple of stories as to how awkward Greinke is and how straight forward he can be. Take this for what it is, but what I have learned about him during my time in LA listening to every angle on Los Doyers, he doesn't sugar coat or mince words. If he sucks or a teammate sucks, he will typically not hold back his feelings. Here are the three stories I heard from a Dodger beat writer (David Vassey) on the radio MONTHS AGO (so it doesn't seem like sour grapes after the fact):

1. Dodger catcher AJ Ellis was trying to get to know Greinke when Greinke first signed his contract with the Dodgers and they were sitting down chopping it up for about 10 minutes when Ellis asked Greinke what Greinke would do to improve the Dodgers if he were GM of the Dodgers. Greinke's response was classic asshole but he truly meant it:
(paraphrasing)
Greinke: Your (AJ Ellis) value has never been higher so I would trade you, then sign Brian McCann for far better offensive productivity.

2. Last season, the Dodgers told Greinke he had to say 4 nice things about his teammates before leaving the locker room to go home each day, whether it be practice or a game, home or away, they kept track of the nice things he would say because he was so blunt and at times brutally honest, he was often construed as a dick by his teammates.

3. Last season, he got so sick of Puig's shit, that Greinke got off the bus during a road trip, and threw all of Puig's shit off the bus.

Maybe the locker room in LA was toxic and he hated it. I could see a scenario given his prior mental midget history that he may want a more zen-like clubhouse and he wants to bolt. My question is IF the above stories are true, do we want a guy like Greinke in the Giants clubhouse? Except for story #3, he was dead on the money in what he did.

 

[SFGRTB]

Tzill, perhaps I can shed some insight on how that actually may be plausible. I live in LA so I listen to a lot local circle jerk sports talk and here are a couple of stories as to how awkward Greinke is and how straight forward he can be. Take this for what it is, but what I have learned about him during my time in LA listening to every angle on Los Doyers, he doesn't sugar coat or mince words. If he sucks or a teammate sucks, he will typically not hold back his feelings. Here are the three stories I heard from a Dodger beat writer (David Vassey) on the radio MONTHS AGO (so it doesn't seem like sour grapes after the fact):

1. Dodger catcher AJ Ellis was trying to get to know Greinke when Greinke first signed his contract with the Dodgers and they were sitting down chopping it up for about 10 minutes when Ellis asked Greinke what Greinke would do to improve the Dodgers if he were GM of the Dodgers. Greinke's response was classic asshole but he truly meant it:
(paraphrasing)
Greinke: Your (AJ Ellis) value has never been higher so I would trade you, then sign Brian McCann for far better offensive productivity.

2. Last season, the Dodgers told Greinke he had to say 4 nice things about his teammates before leaving the locker room to go home each day, whether it be practice or a game, home or away, they kept track of the nice things he would say because he was so blunt and at times brutally honest, he was often construed as a dick by his teammates.

3. Last season, he got so sick of Puig's shit, that Greinke got off the bus during a road trip, and threw all of Puig's shit off the bus.

Maybe the locker room in LA was toxic and he hated it. I could see a scenario given his prior mental midget history that he may want a more zen-like clubhouse and he wants to bolt. My question is IF the above stories are true, do we want a guy like Greinke in the Giants clubhouse? Except for story #3, he was dead on the money in what he did.

Yeah I've heard a lot about Greinke's attitude and it is definitely something the Giants need to do their homework on, and they will do their homework. The Giants are going to bring in Posey, Pence and (now) Crawford into any meetings with Greinke and get their thoughts on his situation.

FWIW, Greinke, who loves to play GM and is a prospect junkie, has said he likes a lot of the Giants players and couldn't decide whether he wanted the Royals (the team who drafted him!) or the Giants to win the World Series last year. Given the stories we've heard, Greinke wouldn't just say something like that in passing. So I guess the Giants pass his test in that aspect.