2020 Rosterbation

[calsnowskier]

Yet....

Well, um...

That was exactly my point...

 

[LHG]

This is a rebuild year. It doesn't matter yet. I would guess 2022 is when they could expect to try for the playoffs, at the earliest.

More like 2023, but then we didn't think they were ready in 2010 either

Doesn’t matter what year it is. The Giants have massive contracts tied to older, non-producing players. Further, their “young” players are too young for the majors. You don’t just pull random players and put them in the bigs and poof, they become prospects. They have to be players. And the upper minors of this org just doesn’t have that kind of talent.

I wasn't asked, but since Filo is one of my alts --

I see this as accumulation of tradable assets. Cueto, Shark, Gausman, Smyly, Panda, etc....Any/all could be flipped at the deadline if we are 20 games out. We aren't contending this year. The kids are (mostly) a year or more away. Why not "Pomerantz" the roster and get deeper?

Remember, FZ inherited a bunch of bloated contracts given for past performance (I'm look at YOU, Brandons). Give him time to shed these and make smart moves. I think he's doing so..

I'm not trying to argue that the guys in the upper minors are top prospects. @msgkings322 why does playing younger players have to start when the team is ready to contend? Most teams that rebuild well start playing the younger guys before the team is ready to contend. And most play younger guys that aren't top prospect material to get the culture reset to a younger roster.
My point is that if the team is going to suck with all the veterans it already has, why fill up on a bunch more veterans to round out the roster? How about sucking with the guys you already have and see if one or two of the younger guys (not talking 22 year olds here, more like 25 or 26 year olds) surprise you and actually play decently. There really isn't room for that. And I'm also concerned that this leaning on older retreads will create a pattern that will be hard to break.

 

[Mays-Fan]

All -

I agree with you all's basic premise of "if we're going to suck, just play the young guys" thinking. From a short-term, "do what's best for the team on the field" perspective, you are spot on.

But this is not fantasy baseball. The FO has to sell tickets, or the the whole thing is going to crater in the long run because we won't have the money to properly run a baseball team.

The FO is striking the best balance between those two objectives that they can given what they have.

Go Giants,
Mays-Fan

 

[tzill]

All -

I agree with you all's basic premise of "if we're going to suck, just play the young guys" thinking. From a short-term, "do what's best for the team on the field" perspective, you are spot on.

But this is not fantasy baseball. The FO has to sell tickets, or the the whole thing is going to crater in the long run because we won't have the money to properly run a baseball team.

The FO is striking the best balance between those two objectives that they can given what they have.

Go Giants,
Mays-Fan

I agree, and would add that just playing kids for the sake of playing them can actually derail careers. It all depends upon which vets you bring in, but with guys like Herk and Panda you know you're going to have a positive clubhouse. That, IMO is pretty valuable.

 

[LHG]

All -

I agree with you all's basic premise of "if we're going to suck, just play the young guys" thinking. From a short-term, "do what's best for the team on the field" perspective, you are spot on.

But this is not fantasy baseball. The FO has to sell tickets, or the the whole thing is going to crater in the long run because we won't have the money to properly run a baseball team.

The FO is striking the best balance between those two objectives that they can given what they have.

Go Giants,
Mays-Fan

I agree, and would add that just playing kids for the sake of playing them can actually derail careers. It all depends upon which vets you bring in, but with guys like Herk and Panda you know you're going to have a positive clubhouse. That, IMO is pretty valuable.

That makes sense if we are talking about 22 year old prospects just getting a taste of AA and with a roster full of younger players. Neither is the case.
And will the org really be able to sell that many more tickets because Herk and, in June, Sandoval are on the team if the team still stinks? Did they help in 2017 and 2018?

 

[tzill]

That makes sense if we are talking about 22 year old prospects just getting a taste of AA and with a roster full of younger players. Neither is the case.
And will the org really be able to sell that many more tickets because Herk and, in June, Sandoval are on the team if the team still stinks? Did they help in 2017 and 2018?

I think there will be plenty of kids playing in SF this year, and Herk and Panda are the type of vets you want in that clubhouse. I don't know about the ticket sales.

 

[SFGRTB]

All -

I agree with you all's basic premise of "if we're going to suck, just play the young guys" thinking. From a short-term, "do what's best for the team on the field" perspective, you are spot on.

But this is not fantasy baseball. The FO has to sell tickets, or the the whole thing is going to crater in the long run because we won't have the money to properly run a baseball team.

The FO is striking the best balance between those two objectives that they can given what they have.

Go Giants,
Mays-Fan

I'd add to this that the roster and lineup on game 1 will be vastly different on game 162, and in between the kids will have PLENTY of time to play. Guys will be traded, guys will get hurt, guys will stink up the joint and be released (or legacy DL'd).

The team has to sell a product for day 1. Much easier to do that with proven commodities (our old pals Hunter and Pablo, and look this guy Flores had a great year last year against us! etc.). From there thing inevitably change.

 

[LHG]

I'd add to this that the roster and lineup on game 1 will be vastly different on game 162, and in between the kids will have PLENTY of time to play. Guys will be traded, guys will get hurt, guys will stink up the joint and be released (or legacy DL'd).

The team has to sell a product for day 1. Much easier to do that with proven commodities (our old pals Hunter and Pablo, and look this guy Flores had a great year last year against us! etc.). From there thing inevitably change.

The problem with this argument, from my perspective, is that the team did this last year and didn't get all that much younger during the season and is now going back to that even harder this year. Maybe it was just because the team suddenly got hot at the most inconvenient point of the season last year but there is starting to be a trend. It may go as you say, but if the team continues to pick up older cast offs during the 2020 season, then I'm going to be very skeptical. I really do hope you are right.

 

[LHG]

Trevor Cahill just signed with a spring training invite. There are now 40 pitchers and 72 total players who will report to big league camp with the Giants.

 

[SFGRTB]

The problem with this argument, from my perspective, is that the team did this last year and didn't get all that much younger during the season and is now going back to that even harder this year. Maybe it was just because the team suddenly got hot at the most inconvenient point of the season last year but there is starting to be a trend. It may go as you say, but if the team continues to pick up older cast offs during the 2020 season, then I'm going to be very skeptical. I really do hope you are right.

I think you kinda answered your own question. Boch was still around, and when they got hot they owed it to him to go as 'all-in' as reasonably possible. I agree if that trend continues this year, then raise all the flags.

I have a good feeling it won't because of the staff they've brought in. It's a very young staff, from all accounts they're going to be about development at the big league level. If you have your best teachers in the ML, lets get the younger guys up here to work with them. We'll see if that's still all just media talk or if they follow through with it.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I think there will be plenty of kids playing in SF this year, and Herk and Panda are the type of vets you want in that clubhouse. I don't know about the ticket sales.

It'll be like going to an upcoming Journey concert. No Steve Perry, you're not there for the new stuff, but it will be entertaining, and you'll have a connection to relive the glory days a little bit.

And you'll pay way too much.

 

[SF11704]

Just to throw in my own 2 cents ... I have a friend that works in the marketing area of a professional sports team here in NY. Not baseball though ... but he had some pretty interesting insights about what 'ownership' thinks about rebuilds, reloads etc. He said that you have to remember that the prime objective of ownership is to generate revenue. They want to have a profitable venture. According to him some of the most important revenue streams are ticket sales (and all the other attacked things like concessions and parking), team merchandise and TV/Recording rights. If you look closely at all of these revenue streams you will find that they are funded by some sort of a fan base. Directly or indirectly. In many cases it is the fan who purchases a 'sports' TV package via some media company. That media company usually pays the ownership some amount of money to have the rights to broadcast the games.

According to him .... ownership tries very hard to market 'a sense hope' to the fan base. It will be this 'hope' that drives a fan to purchase some tickets, buy a team jersey and pay to watch them on TV. How you 'structure' this sense of hope can be very different depending on what the strategy of the ownership is. It can range from 'hoping' to win the division or WS (this is where the Doyers are) or something along the lines of .... building for the future. I think this is where we are.

He also said .... from the perspective of a Marketing team .... the fan base is always somewhat fragmented ... the rabid fan, the engaged fan and the casual fan and the corporate fan (some companies buy season tickets just because they are headquartered in that city). I'd say this board ranges from rabid to engaged.

On a rebuild or reload he feels that quite a bit of the fan base will 'pull away'. You will usually keep the rabid fans, some engaged fans as well as the corporate ticket holders. You will also see the same fall off in the merchandise arena as well. Probably even more so. The corporate fan doesn't typically purchase Merchandise. The real difficult areas are in the TV/Recording arena. You have to be somewhat successful to make this a profitable avenue.

Just thought I would pass this along .... I found his comments and insights interesting ... he's not in the MLB arena but I still think it carries some relevance ...

 

[pachyderm]

So let's not buy anything until they show us they are improving.

 

[calsnowskier]

So let's not buy anything until they show us they are improving.

Meh.

the big off season acquisition was Wilson. And he was a solid add. I wasn’t expecting them to contend, and I have no desire to watch an 82-80 team.

I am not a fan of the roster-churn strategy, but not because I don’t think it will work, but rather because I like getting attached to the players on my team. If the churn strategy works, I will give it a solid try to see if I can like it.

 

[pachyderm]

Meh.

the big off season acquisition was Wilson. And he was a solid add. I wasn’t expecting them to contend, and I have no desire to watch an 82-80 team.

I am not a fan of the roster-churn strategy, but not because I don’t think it will work, but rather because I like getting attached to the players on my team. If the churn strategy works, I will give it a solid try to see if I can like it.

Sooooo....

You wanna watch what level team?

I'd be tickled pink if we 82-80.

I fear we are going to end up 62-100... you'll be happy with that?

 

[pachyderm]

Meh.

the big off season acquisition was Wilson. And he was a solid add. I wasn’t expecting them to contend, and I have no desire to watch an 82-80 team.

I am not a fan of the roster-churn strategy, but not because I don’t think it will work, but rather because I like getting attached to the players on my team. If the churn strategy works, I will give it a solid try to see if I can like it.

It was a joke.

 

[calsnowskier]

Sooooo....

You wanna watch what level team?

I'd be tickled pink if we 82-80.

I fear we are going to end up 62-100... you'll be happy with that?

“Happy”?

No.

But when I am sick, I know that icky medicine is needed in order to feel better. Right now, we are taking medicine.

 

[LHG]

It was a joke.

Are the 2020 San Francisco Giants really a 94-loss team?

 

[calsnowskier]

The longer this stoppage goes, the better the Cozart/Wilson acquisition looks. The less the season plays, the less the Giants need to pay him.

 

[LHG]

The longer this stoppage goes, the better the Cozart/Wilson acquisition looks. The less the season plays, the less the Giants need to pay him.

I thought players are still getting paid if they have MLB contracts.