2020 Rosterbation

[LHG]

I like Pence but I don't like to see this team continuing to get older.

Source: Pence, Giants discussing reunion in San Francisco

 

[pachyderm]

If we're crap at least we will be crap with people I love...

 

[LHG]

If we're crap at least we will be crap with people I love...

But how do the people you love help with the re-build (re-load)? If the Giants weren't already stocked full of older players and didn't focus their few signings on older guys as well, I'd be more comfortable with this. However, consider the likely 26 man roster:
Rotation - Cueto (34), Samardzija (35), Gausman (29), Smyly (29), Rodriguez (27)
Bullpen - Beede (26), Blevins (36), Coonrod (27), Gott (27), Gustave (27), Peralta (28), Rogers (29), Watson (34)
Catchers - Posey (33), Garcia (27)
Infielders - Belt (31), Crawford (33), Dubon (25), Flores (27), Longoria (34), Solano (32)
Outfielders - Dickerson (29), Guyer (34), Pence (37), Slater (27), Yastrzemski (29)

That puts the average age of the roster on OP at 30.23. That is one freaking old MLB team.
But for argument's sake, let's replace one of the older NRI on this roster (Duggar, who will be 26 for Guyer, 34). That reduces the average age only to 29.92. Still pretty old for MLB roster standards. And T. Anderson (30) could well replace Rodriguez in the rotation. Rodriguez could then become a bullpen piece and replace Beede.

I hear a lot of "this team is going to suck, let's at least bring in short term trade pieces/fun guys to watch". The problem with that is that the younger guys don't play. Then comes the "there will be injuries, guys traded, guys who suck will get cut", yada, yada, yada. Except, what is to keep the team from grabbing more older guys to replace them because, the guys on the farm aren't good enough? So? If this team is going to suck, at least let it suck with farm produced guys who get a chance to rise or fall in the big leagues. It sets a org culture to build from within so that when the guys who are good enough to play are ready, the team is less reticent to play them. They haven't relied on aging veterans to get to that point so they won't have a hard time moving from that place.

 

[pachyderm]

But how do the people you love help with the re-build (re-load)? If the Giants weren't already stocked full of older players and didn't focus their few signings on older guys as well, I'd be more comfortable with this. However, consider the likely 26 man roster:
Rotation - Cueto (34), Samardzija (35), Gausman (29), Smyly (29), Rodriguez (27)
Bullpen - Beede (26), Blevins (36), Coonrod (27), Gott (27), Gustave (27), Peralta (28), Rogers (29), Watson (34)
Catchers - Posey (33), Garcia (27)
Infielders - Belt (31), Crawford (33), Dubon (25), Flores (27), Longoria (34), Solano (32)
Outfielders - Dickerson (29), Guyer (34), Pence (37), Slater (27), Yastrzemski (29)

That puts the average age of the roster on OP at 30.23. That is one freaking old MLB team.
But for argument's sake, let's replace one of the older NRI on this roster (Duggar, who will be 26 for Guyer, 34). That reduces the average age only to 29.92. Still pretty old for MLB roster standards. And T. Anderson (30) could well replace Rodriguez in the rotation. Rodriguez could then become a bullpen piece and replace Beede.

I hear a lot of "this team is going to suck, let's at least bring in short term trade pieces/fun guys to watch". The problem with that is that the younger guys don't play. Then comes the "there will be injuries, guys traded, guys who suck will get cut", yada, yada, yada. Except, what is to keep the team from grabbing more older guys to replace them because, the guys on the farm aren't good enough? So? If this team is going to suck, at least let it suck with farm produced guys who get a chance to rise or fall in the big leagues. It sets a org culture to build from within so that when the guys who are good enough to play are ready, the team is less reticent to play them. They haven't relied on aging veterans to get to that point so they won't have a hard time moving from that place.

 

[LHG]

Is that better?

 

[pachyderm]

Is that better?

No.
We're going to suck.

 

[calsnowskier]

@pachyderm

I literally snorted reading that exchange. Well done, sir...

 

[filosofy29]

I like Pence but I don't like to see this team continuing to get older.

Source: Pence, Giants discussing reunion in San Francisco

I have a hard time thinking that Hunter is looking at this as a “value resurgence” landing spot. I think he loves it here and wants to live here. This is his ride off into the sunset. In the meantime, he’s an excellent leader/clubhouse guy for the other OF’s like Jaylen, Dick and Yaz.

I don’t think he’s going to block anybody. He’ll be a reserve OF, that can spell whoever is hurting (Dickerson) and go out on his terms in a city he loves to play. I wouldn’t read too much into it LHG.

 

[filosofy29]

Ok, never mind, wtf is going on? Pence AND Hamilton?
Nvm, just saw it’s a minor league deal with camp invite. Phew.

 

[LHG]

I have a hard time thinking that Hunter is looking at this as a “value resurgence” landing spot. I think he loves it here and wants to live here. This is his ride off into the sunset. In the meantime, he’s an excellent leader/clubhouse guy for the other OF’s like Jaylen, Dick and Yaz.

I don’t think he’s going to block anybody. He’ll be a reserve OF, that can spell whoever is hurting (Dickerson) and go out on his terms in a city he loves to play. I wouldn’t read too much into it LHG.

filo, did you see my estimated average age for this roster come OP? This will be the oldest re-build in the history of baseball (okay, maybe a slight over-exaggeration). If I'm going to watch my favorite team suck this year, I want to see them do so with young guys that should at least get a chance at regular big league playing time. Not a bunch of older guys.

 

[LHG]

Ok, never mind, wtf is going on? Pence AND Hamilton?
Nvm, just saw it’s a minor league deal with camp invite. Phew.

Hamilton has been on this team's radar for quite some time. Wouldn't be surprised to see him break camp, along with Pence, Dickerson and Yasztremski as the 4 outfielders (along with Dubon playing outfield).

 

[filosofy29]

filo, did you see my estimated average age for this roster come OP? This will be the oldest re-build in the history of baseball (okay, maybe a slight over-exaggeration). If I'm going to watch my favorite team suck this year, I want to see them do so with young guys that should at least get a chance at regular big league playing time. Not a bunch of older guys.

I’m talking about youth at the MLB level, not spring chickens. I’d obviously love to have talented 22 year olds with big league futures getting their cups of coffee.

My point is, you have to start a rebuild somewhere. This team has been trending badly since the second half of 2016. A lot of dead weigh, bloated contracts and not a lot of youthful blue chippers that are MLB ready. You don’t just say “we’re rebuilding” and then instantly call up every young shmuck who isn’t ready and get a bunch of young prospects who are waiting to take over. This is a transition year. If Pence can help guys like Jaylen and Yaz stick around and get better for the next 3-4 years, I’m happy.

You’ve seen Chris Shaw play baseball right? His bat, on multiple occasion in the games I’ve watched.....have missed baseballs by 18”. I think he’d struggle to bad .200 and hit 20 HRs if he was given ample playing time. He is not a MLB’er and he’s not exactly a yute either. Austin Slater May have found something, but he strikes me at best as a 4th OF’er/awesome PH guy. Now if Hunter Bishop and Heliot Ramos are getting blocked by Pence, I totally get it.

Imhumbleo, this is the awkward transition year. Year 1 of rebuild starts next year.

 

[filosofy29]

Hamilton has been on this team's radar for quite some time. Wouldn't be surprised to see him break camp, along with Pence, Dickerson and Yasztremski as the 4 outfielders (along with Dubon playing outfield).

Hamilton has been on this team's radar for quite some time. Wouldn't be surprised to see him break camp, along with Pence, Dickerson and Yasztremski as the 4 outfielders (along with Dubon playing outfield).

Hamilton sucks. I can’t see anybody paying anything for him at a trade deadline. I know the old regime liked him, wasn’t aware of the new one. I can’t see him making this roster.....as weak as it is.

 

[calsnowskier]

I’m talking about youth at the MLB level, not spring chickens. I’d obviously love to have talented 22 year olds with big league futures getting their cups of coffee.

My point is, you have to start a rebuild somewhere. This team has been trending badly since the second half of 2016. A lot of dead weigh, bloated contracts and not a lot of youthful blue chippers that are MLB ready. You don’t just say “we’re rebuilding” and then instantly call up every young shmuck who isn’t ready and get a bunch of young prospects who are waiting to take over. This is a transition year. If Pence can help guys like Jaylen and Yaz stick around and get better for the next 3-4 years, I’m happy.

You’ve seen Chris Shaw play baseball right? His bat, on multiple occasion in the games I’ve watched.....have missed baseballs by 18”. I think he’d struggle to bad .200 and hit 20 HRs if he was given ample playing time. He is not a MLB’er and he’s not exactly a yute either. Austin Slater May have found something, but he strikes me at best as a 4th OF’er/awesome PH guy. Now if Hunter Bishop and Heliot Ramos are getting blocked by Pence, I totally get it.

Imhumbleo, this is the awkward transition year. Year 1 of rebuild starts next year.

Yeah... Um...


What he said...

 

[LHG]

I’m talking about youth at the MLB level, not spring chickens. I’d obviously love to have talented 22 year olds with big league futures getting their cups of coffee.

My point is, you have to start a rebuild somewhere. This team has been trending badly since the second half of 2016. A lot of dead weigh, bloated contracts and not a lot of youthful blue chippers that are MLB ready. You don’t just say “we’re rebuilding” and then instantly call up every young shmuck who isn’t ready and get a bunch of young prospects who are waiting to take over. This is a transition year. If Pence can help guys like Jaylen and Yaz stick around and get better for the next 3-4 years, I’m happy.

You’ve seen Chris Shaw play baseball right? His bat, on multiple occasion in the games I’ve watched.....have missed baseballs by 18”. I think he’d struggle to bad .200 and hit 20 HRs if he was given ample playing time. He is not a MLB’er and he’s not exactly a yute either. Austin Slater May have found something, but he strikes me at best as a 4th OF’er/awesome PH guy. Now if Hunter Bishop and Heliot Ramos are getting blocked by Pence, I totally get it.

Imhumbleo, this is the awkward transition year. Year 1 of rebuild starts next year.

Yeah... Um...


What he said...

If this year is Year 1 of rebuild, what was last year? Oh wait, it looked just like this year, a bunch of older players. If I remember correctly, the Giants started the year with the oldest roster in MLB. It looks like the same.
And, yes, I'd rather see Shaw/Slater/Davis play and hit .198 with 20 home runs then a collection of Guyer/Hamilton/Pence do the same.

 

[msgkings322]

I like Pence but I don't like to see this team continuing to get older.

Source: Pence, Giants discussing reunion in San Francisco

This is a rebuild year. It doesn't matter yet. I would guess 2022 is when they could expect to try for the playoffs, at the earliest.

More like 2023, but then we didn't think they were ready in 2010 either

 

[calsnowskier]

If this year is Year 1 of rebuild, what was last year? Oh wait, it looked just like this year, a bunch of older players. If I remember correctly, the Giants started the year with the oldest roster in MLB. It looks like the same.
And, yes, I'd rather see Shaw/Slater/Davis play and hit .198 with 20 home runs then a collection of Guyer/Hamilton/Pence do the same.

Doesn’t matter what year it is. The Giants have massive contracts tied to older, non-producing players. Further, their “young” players are too young for the majors. You don’t just pull random players and put them in the bigs and poof, they become prospects. They have to be players. And the upper minors of this org just doesn’t have that kind of talent.

 

[tzill]

filo, did you see my estimated average age for this roster come OP? This will be the oldest re-build in the history of baseball (okay, maybe a slight over-exaggeration). If I'm going to watch my favorite team suck this year, I want to see them do so with young guys that should at least get a chance at regular big league playing time. Not a bunch of older guys.

I wasn't asked, but since Filo is one of my alts --

I see this as accumulation of tradable assets. Cueto, Shark, Gausman, Smyly, Panda, etc....Any/all could be flipped at the deadline if we are 20 games out. We aren't contending this year. The kids are (mostly) a year or more away. Why not "Pomerantz" the roster and get deeper?

 

[tzill]

If this year is Year 1 of rebuild, what was last year? Oh wait, it looked just like this year, a bunch of older players. If I remember correctly, the Giants started the year with the oldest roster in MLB. It looks like the same.
And, yes, I'd rather see Shaw/Slater/Davis play and hit .198 with 20 home runs then a collection of Guyer/Hamilton/Pence do the same.

Remember, FZ inherited a bunch of bloated contracts given for past performance (I'm look at YOU, Brandons). Give him time to shed these and make smart moves. I think he's doing so..

 

[tzill]

Doesn’t matter what year it is. The Giants have massive contracts tied to older, non-producing players. Further, their “young” players are too young for the majors. You don’t just pull random players and put them in the bigs and poof, they become prospects. They have to be players. And the upper minors of this org just doesn’t have that kind of talent.

Yet....