2014 Offseason Plans Thread

[RevSader]

well unlimited funds would fix everything lol....but that is not what we have to work with and we are going to need to find some way to get extra cash to sign a couple guys. Trading Kinsler makes the most sense since we have a viable replacement. Over a full season at 2B and continued growth, I definitely see Profar at least producing what Kinsler did this past season and it would be worth it to give the kid a shot given his potential. Then if we can use the extra funds to pull off both Mccann and Granderson (I think his bat and speed would probably be a better fit) while also getting a few specs to replenish our farm system then I would call that a good trade and successful offseason.

What other moves would you do? I dont see a big bat being available for trade, we are going to have to fill the holes with free agency, and again, if we dont have the right trade in place to move Profar then we need to create a permanent spot for him or else it is just a waste of talent. So again, trading Kinsler makes the most sense.

Yeah I dont see them spending on a bunch of guys, as I mentioned, I think Mccann and Granderson make the most sense and I think Mccann is a must. If we cant get Mccann then I would want to get Napoli back.

They have to be absolutely sure that Profar can do that going forward. I trust their judgment of his future ability.

One would think Granderson should hit well in RBiA, but after last season's power outage I am not totally sure. The reason I liked the Profar to St. Louis trade was the possibility of getting Adams and Miller both. It would make the rotation even stronger, and would be a cost effective replacement for Moreland. Might even be able to throw Moreland in on that deal, I don't know.

Grandy is considering taking the QO from the Yankees, so he might be crossed off the list very shortly.

I would be all aboard moving Kins if I was sure that Profar would be able to step in and product right away given a full season.

 

[scotsman1948]

I just explained how trading Kinsler would provide AT LEAST an extra $7 mil this year on top of about $25 mil that we have to spend if we keep the payroll the same. How does $32 mil not fill our holes? Will we be able to get all the top free agents at the holes we need? no, probably not but Mccann and Morales would fill holes and provide power and would be affordable for us. If not Morales then I could see them getting Granderson to fit financially as well, so why does that not seem realistic and feasible?

so we save 7M and get crap back not a good deal.

 

[slugger82685]

They have to be absolutely sure that Profar can do that going forward. I trust their judgment of his future ability.

One would think Granderson should hit well in RBiA, but after last season's power outage I am not totally sure. The reason I liked the Profar to St. Louis trade was the possibility of getting Adams and Miller both. It would make the rotation even stronger, and would be a cost effective replacement for Moreland. Might even be able to throw Moreland in on that deal, I don't know.

Grandy is considering taking the QO from the Yankees, so he might be crossed off the list very shortly.

I would be all aboard moving Kins if I was sure that Profar would be able to step in and product right away given a full season.

why are you so afraid of giving Profar the opportunity to replace Kinsler? Lets be honest here, Kinsler hasnt been anything special for the last couple years and if we can get Profar more experience given his high ceiling along with saving money and gaining some specs how is that not a win for us?

I do like your offer of Miller and Adams for Profar+ but I just dont think the Cards go for that. They know pitching wins championships and Miller is showing signs of being a TORP. They do need a SS but I just dont think they would be that desperate.

If we cant go after Grandy then I think Morales makes a good fit as well, possibly Beltran as well if his contract demands arent too high because of his age.

 

[slugger82685]

so we save 7M and get crap back not a good deal.

who says we would get crap back? If we have to eat that much we better be getting at least a top 5 spec of theirs.

 

[RevSader]

why are you so afraid of giving Profar the opportunity to replace Kinsler? Lets be honest here, Kinsler hasnt been anything special for the last couple years and if we can get Profar more experience given his high ceiling along with saving money and gaining some specs how is that not a win for us?

I do like your offer of Miller and Adams for Profar+ but I just dont think the Cards go for that. They know pitching wins championships and Miller is showing signs of being a TORP. They do need a SS but I just dont think they would be that desperate.

If we cant go after Grandy then I think Morales makes a good fit as well, possibly Beltran as well if his contract demands arent too high because of his age.

They left Miller out of their post season plans largely. They have a LOGJAM in their rotation. Leaving Miller in the pen or the minors wouldn't help them. Profar potentially really could help.

I would welcome Beltran to a two year deal.

I have also seen some trade ideas that have Holland going to Toronto for EE and the Rangers posting for Tanaka. Ultimately I have no clue which route they will go.

 

[PDay8810]

"I liked the Profar to St. Louis trade was the possibility of getting Adams and Miller both"

I love the upside of Profar in Texas but I could do this deal if the Cards were actually willing.

 

[scotsman1948]

who says we would get crap back? If we have to eat that much we better be getting at least a top 5 spec of theirs.

it would have to be more. a trade makes the team better don't see that as animprovement

 

[slugger82685]

They left Miller out of their post season plans largely. They have a LOGJAM in their rotation. Leaving Miller in the pen or the minors wouldn't help them. Profar potentially really could help.

I would welcome Beltran to a two year deal.

I have also seen some trade ideas that have Holland going to Toronto for EE and the Rangers posting for Tanaka. Ultimately I have no clue which route they will go.

I dont know how I feel about this, I think EE would be a great fit, but we are finally at a position of strength with pitching. Something we havent seen in a long time and who knows how Tanaka will be, from what I read he does not have the same kind of stuff as Darvish yet he will cost more than Darvish.

 

[slugger82685]

it would have to be more. a trade makes the team better don't see that as animprovement

I dont really know what you are trying to say with this statement.....when I said at least a top 5 spec, I meant as the top player included in the trade. If we eat half the salary I would expect a top 5 spec and 2 mid level specs.....Kinsler would greatly improve 2B for them especially in offense.

 

[RevSader]

I dont know how I feel about this, I think EE would be a great fit, but we are finally at a position of strength with pitching. Something we havent seen in a long time and who knows how Tanaka will be, from what I read he does not have the same kind of stuff as Darvish yet he will cost more than Darvish.

If Darvish were just now coming to America, I can see him being A LOT more expensive than he was just two years ago. Also to be fair, I don't know many pitchers with the same kind of stuff as Darvish. I hear that Tanaka has better control over his stuff though, so it's worth taking a peek. I doubt he ends up a Ranger though.

 

[scotsman1948]

I dont really know what you are trying to say with this statement.....when I said at least a top 5 spec, I meant as the top player included in the trade. If we eat half the salary I would expect a top 5 spec and 2 mid level specs.....Kinsler would greatly improve 2B for them especially in offense.

my thought is how would it make us better. our offense already stinks and losing Kinsler would make it worse. if we're going with Soto at C, the bottom of our batting order is already going to be weak and moving Profar into the order in place of Kinsler makes it even weaker

 

[slugger82685]

my thought is how would it make us better. our offense already stinks and losing Kinsler would make it worse. if we're going with Soto at C, the bottom of our batting order is already going to be weak and moving Profar into the order in place of Kinsler makes it even weaker

you are not seeing the big picture with the trade and im not typing it again so see my previous posts.....I highly doubt we are going with Soto as our full time starting C, I think they will make a big push for Mccann but that will also take a huge chunk of what we have financially to spend so that is where trading Kinsler comes in for more flexibility. Trading Kinsler would not NEED to bring back someone else to fill a whole, we could gain specs to replenish the farm a little bit and use the money saved to get another bat in free agency.

I firmly believe that Profar will succeed given a full time spot and not moving from position to position and only getting 300 or so ABs. I think you see him adjust and have a productive season.

 

[lainey12]

lolol
It never ends. I doubt anyone has even taken the time to compare Kinslers line with the rest of the regulars.
Go ahead folks, do some homework....let's pay Kinsler to play for someone else while he's still one of our best producers?
If it's about a salary dump, might as well throw EA in there too. Profar is projected to have more power, and possibly the elite skills that EA has. THAT'S why he's a top prospect...it's his value at SS.

Fans are comparing two different animals.

 

[lainey12]

my thought is how would it make us better. our offense already stinks and losing Kinsler would make it worse. if we're going with Soto at C, the bottom of our batting order is already going to be weak and moving Profar into the order in place of Kinsler makes it even weaker

How do people not understand this?
rhetorical

 

[slugger82685]

lolol
It never ends. I doubt anyone has even taken the time to compare Kinslers line with the rest of the regulars.
Go ahead folks, do some homework....let's pay Kinsler to play for someone else while he's still one of our best producers?
If it's about a salary dump, might as well throw EA in there too. Profar is projected to have more power, and possibly the elite skills that EA has. THAT'S why he's a top prospect...it's his value at SS.

Fans are comparing two different animals.

going off of fangraphs....

for 2013 Kinsler was 14th for 2B in the majors in terms of WAR, 13th defensively, 12th wRC+, 10th ISO

for 2012 he was 9th in WAR, 16th defensively, 12th wRC+, 5th ISO (only good ranking),


and we are paying him $62 mil for the next 4 years, please tell me how he is still one of our best producers?

 

[lainey12]

I think this website moved their clocks forward 1 hour instead of back.

I noticed that too..

 

[scotsman1948]

going off of fangraphs....

for 2013 Kinsler was 14th for 2B in the majors in terms of WAR, 13th defensively, 12th wRC+, 10th ISO

for 2012 he was 9th in WAR, 16th defensively, 12th wRC+, 5th ISO (only good ranking),


and we are paying him $62 mil for the next 4 years, please tell me how he is still one of our best producers?

this from one site:

League-wide, the second base position is lacking in impact offensive players, and it's fair to say that the 31-year-old Kinsler is firmly in the top 10 at his position, and pushing the top five when he's healthy. The 2009 and 2011 seasons both saw Kinsler put up a 30/30 campaign.

On top of his offensive production, Kinsler is also an above-average defender. His range is somewhat limited, and he's probably not going to win a Gold Glove anytime soon, but his 11 Defensive Runs Saved ranked second to Dustin Pedroia among AL second basemen.

 

[lainey12]

going off of fangraphs....

for 2013 Kinsler was 14th for 2B in the majors in terms of WAR, 13th defensively, 12th wRC+, 10th ISO

for 2012 he was 9th in WAR, 16th defensively, 12th wRC+, 5th ISO (only good ranking),


and we are paying him $62 mil for the next 4 years, please tell me how he is still one of our best producers?

Go back to fangraphs, and look at our other regulars, like I suggested

check out who was a better hitter with RISP...Kinsler or Beltre? (just for fun)

 

[lainey12]

this from one site:

League-wide, the second base position is lacking in impact offensive players, and it's fair to say that the 31-year-old Kinsler is firmly in the top 10 at his position, and pushing the top five when he's healthy. The 2009 and 2011 seasons both saw Kinsler put up a 30/30 campaign.

On top of his offensive production, Kinsler is also an above-average defender. His range is somewhat limited, and he's probably not going to win a Gold Glove anytime soon, but his 11 Defensive Runs Saved ranked second to Dustin Pedroia among AL second basemen.

My guess is that fangraphs will still put Kinsler in either the top or second tier 2nds, even after this season....at worst, 3rd tier....and much of that will be because of defensive play.
Here's the problem, even fangraphs admits their advanced defensive metrics can have a 40% chance of not being accurate.
And Kudos to to fangraphs for making that clear

 

[RevSader]

going off of fangraphs....

for 2013 Kinsler was 14th for 2B in the majors in terms of WAR, 13th defensively, 12th wRC+, 10th ISO

for 2012 he was 9th in WAR, 16th defensively, 12th wRC+, 5th ISO (only good ranking),


and we are paying him $62 mil for the next 4 years, please tell me how he is still one of our best producers?

Because he ranked 2nd in OBP and wRC+ amongst the 5 with more than 500 PAs despite only playing 136 games.