Zeke Elliott Reportedly Holding Out of Training Camp

[PhillyGreen]

The going rate for a Franchise QB.

The term "Franchise" can mean many things. A franchise QB IMO is Good or better QB. Someone capable of leading but necessarily having to carry a team on their back. Being in the 12-15 range could be considered a franchise QB in my opinion. Not every franchise QB deserves $35 mil a year.

 

[jarntt]

Here is the thing. If Dak is wanting $30-35 million a year then he overvalued himself and his not getting new contract is on him and not the Cowboys. I have not seen many articles that suggest that Dak even deserves that kind of money outside of Cowboy media outlets. Almost every sports channel I see has Dak at the $25 mil a year range.

I don't know what you are looking at but I don't know of any reasonable source that has projected him to get (not what they think he should get but what he will get) less than $30M since Wentz signed. It would be awesome as a Cowboy fan if he only got $25M per year but there is zero chance of that. You are still valueing him against QBs that didn't sign this offseason. It just doesn't work like that. Timing is probably as big or bigger than talent when it comes to contracts. Do you think Trent Brown is the best OL in the NFL? I don't think he is in the top 10 but he is the highest paid on an average annual basis because he just signed.

 

[PhillyGreen]

I don't know what you are looking at but I don't know of any reasonable source that has projected him to get (not what they think he should get but what he will get) less than $30M since Wentz signed. It would be awesome as a Cowboy fan if he only got $25M per year but there is zero chance of that. You are still valueing him against QBs that didn't sign this offseason. It just doesn't work like that. Timing is probably as big or bigger than talent when it comes to contracts. Do you think Trent Brown is the best OL in the NFL? I don't think he is in the top 10 but he is the highest paid on an average annual basis because he just signed.

While looking at those salaries I understood that not all of them were recent signings. That is why I said that Dak is in the $25-$28 mil range and the $60 - $70 mil in guaranteed money. I think he is worth $25 mil. That means that he will probably be overpaid some if trends are correct. He is probably going to demand the same contract that Wentz got. I am not going to blame him for trying to get his money. I think $30 mil is definitely too much but that does not mean he will not get it.

 

[Manster7588]

The term "Franchise" can mean many things. A franchise QB IMO is Good or better QB. Someone capable of leading but necessarily having to carry a team on their back. Being in the 12-15 range could be considered a franchise QB in my opinion. Not every franchise QB deserves $35 mil a year.

Franchise QBs deserve the going rate of QBs.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Franchise QBs deserve the going rate of QBs.

Do you know what the going rate is?

 

[Myles]

The going rate for a Franchise QB.

Franchise QB isn't a definable price.
Bortles was a "franchise" QB for Jax. Did he also deserve top level money?
I think Dak deserves top 10-15 QB in the league money.

 

[jarntt]

While looking at those salaries I understood that not all of them were recent signings. That is why I said that Dak is in the $25-$28 mil range and the $60 - $70 mil in guaranteed money. I think he is worth $25 mil. That means that he will probably be overpaid some if trends are correct. He is probably going to demand the same contract that Wentz got. I am not going to blame him for trying to get his money. I think $30 mil is definitely too much but that does not mean he will not get it.

Since you mentioned Wentz, I suspect it is very easy for Dak to make the case he deserves at least as much as Wentz. Now did Wentz "deserve" $33M or whatever he got? Of course not, but that's what QBs get when they sign.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Since you mentioned Wentz, I suspect it is very easy for Dak to make the case he deserves at least as much as Wentz. Now did Wentz "deserve" $33M or whatever he got? Of course not, but that's what QBs get when they sign.

I can understand and accept that argument whether I agree with it or not. On it's face Wentz probably did not deserve top 5 QB money either but I hold the opinion that Wentz is the better QB and has the higher upside. The argument on the other side of the coin is that Dak is more available. There a so many different ways this argument could go.

$25 to $28 mil is where I think the market for is for Dak. I don't know if there is truth to this but supposedly Dak asked for $35 mil a year. If that is the case he is asking to be the highest paid QB in the NFL and there is no way he is worth that money. In the end I think he settles for between $28-$30 mil.

 

[Manster7588]

I can understand and accept that argument whether I agree with it or not. On it's face Wentz probably did not deserve top 5 QB money either but I hold the opinion that Wentz is the better QB and has the higher upside. The argument on the other side of the coin is that Dak is more available. There a so many different ways this argument could go.

$25 to $28 mil is where I think the market for is for Dak. I don't know if there is truth to this but supposedly Dak asked for $35 mil a year. If that is the case he is asking to be the highest paid QB in the NFL and there is no way he is worth that money. In the end I think he settles for between $28-$30 mil.

In two years Wentz will no longer be top 5. If Dak signs now he won't be top 5 in two years either.

 

[Manster7588]

Do you know what the going rate is?

By the sound of it around 32 to 35M.

 

[Manster7588]

I can understand and accept that argument whether I agree with it or not. On it's face Wentz probably did not deserve top 5 QB money either but I hold the opinion that Wentz is the better QB and has the higher upside. The argument on the other side of the coin is that Dak is more available. There a so many different ways this argument could go.

$25 to $28 mil is where I think the market for is for Dak. I don't know if there is truth to this but supposedly Dak asked for $35 mil a year. If that is the case he is asking to be the highest paid QB in the NFL and there is no way he is worth that money. In the end I think he settles for between $28-$30 mil.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sp...-than-carson-wentz/1fvaeiaz9s6t4130z8m8mcrgyr

 

[jarntt]

"but it wasn't really Zeke being out"

Wow.


So what you're saying is the Cowboys didn't really miss Zeke. It was everything else & not missing one of the best RB's in the league. Alrighty then.

Without Zeke the Cowboys are a .500 team. With him they're a playoff team.

So much wrong with your post that it's hard to know how to respond to it and I'm not sure you even know what you are saying at this point. The team was 3-3 when Zeke was out no doubt, but as someone who watches every game at least once and followed the whole season I laid out (assuming it was the post about how Dak played and not whether they won or lost) what the issues were during those 3 games in response to a question about Dak's stats. No you swing to record which is a different discussion.

To where you now seem to be moving the goal posts, no, Zeke being out had no impact on their record at all. Here is where you provide facts to back up your argument.

You seem to be alluding to them being a .500 team because they were 3-3 over that stretch. So, If you want to just discuss record (which isn't even what was being discussed) and think they would have been better than 3-3 with Zeke, start by letting me know which of those 3 losses would have been a win if Zeke was playing because they went 3-3 without him and would have been 3-3 with him. In order to have won one of those 3 games they needed to overcome the issues that I brought up plus now if talking wins we could look at what was happening on the defensive side too.

Regardless the team was 6-4 with him and 3-3 without him. 9-7 for the season as is and 9-7 if Zeke hadn't missed a game.

 

[jarntt]

I can understand and accept that argument whether I agree with it or not. On it's face Wentz probably did not deserve top 5 QB money either but I hold the opinion that Wentz is the better QB and has the higher upside. The argument on the other side of the coin is that Dak is more available. There a so many different ways this argument could go.

$25 to $28 mil is where I think the market for is for Dak. I don't know if there is truth to this but supposedly Dak asked for $35 mil a year. If that is the case he is asking to be the highest paid QB in the NFL and there is no way he is worth that money. In the end I think he settles for between $28-$30 mil.

I think you are just off on what the QB market is in July of 2019. The calendar is what matters most because the contracts go up by the day. Look at the flow they go through here. It isn't an order based on talent, just timing

Quarterback Contracts Rocket Upward, With Wentz The Latest Mega-Bucks Passer

 

[Wamu]

So much wrong with your post that it's hard to know how to respond to it and I'm not sure you even know what you are saying at this point. The team was 3-3 when Zeke was out no doubt, but as someone who watches every game at least once and followed the whole season I laid out (assuming it was the post about how Dak played and not whether they won or lost) what the issues were during those 3 games in response to a question about Dak's stats. No you swing to record which is a different discussion.

To where you now seem to be moving the goal posts, no, Zeke being out had no impact on their record at all. Here is where you provide facts to back up your argument.

You seem to be alluding to them being a .500 team because they were 3-3 over that stretch. So, If you want to just discuss record (which isn't even what was being discussed) and think they would have been better than 3-3 with Zeke, start by letting me know which of those 3 losses would have been a win if Zeke was playing because they went 3-3 without him and would have been 3-3 with him. In order to have won one of those 3 games they needed to overcome the issues that I brought up plus now if talking wins we could look at what was happening on the defensive side too.

Regardless the team was 6-4 with him and 3-3 without him. 9-7 for the season as is and 9-7 if Zeke hadn't missed a game.

So I was wrong by saying without Zeke the Cowboys are a .500 team. With him they're a playoff team? Interesting. Yet your said last year they were 3-3 without him & 6-4 with him. You proved my point by saying that.

You don't seem to think Zeke is as important as I think he is to the Cowboys. Let's just agree to disagree on this topic.

 

[Manster7588]

So I was wrong by saying without Zeke the Cowboys are a .500 team. With him they're a playoff team? Interesting. Yet your said last year they were 3-3 without him & 6-4 with him. You proved my point by saying that.

You don't seem to think Zeke is as important as I think he is to the Cowboys. Let's just agree to disagree on this topic.

I won't say your wrong, but I will disagree with you. Yes the team was 3-3 without Zeke, but the team was missing more than just Zeke in a few of those games. In addition the 2019 team looks better as a whole vs the 2017 team.
The Cowboys are better with Zeke but without him they are still a playoff team.

 

[jarntt]

So I was wrong by saying without Zeke the Cowboys are a .500 team. With him they're a playoff team? Interesting. Yet your said last year they were 3-3 without him & 6-4 with him. You proved my point by saying that.

You don't seem to think Zeke is as important as I think he is to the Cowboys. Let's just agree to disagree on this topic.

No, you are totally wrong and nothing was proven. Tell me which of the games that they lost when they went 3-3 that they would have won with Zeke to be better than that.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Aside from yards on the field, which apparently can be garnered by any number of backs, Elliott has never appeared to me as a guy who you want to spend huge on long term.

Seems like a 40 watt bulb at best. With very questionable judgement.

Great talent. No doubt about it.

Great long term investment? In doubt.

 

[PDay8810]

Great long term investment? In doubt.

that is the rub.

I think Dallas has every right to wait another year and then draft a back by round 3 next season. I think three years at 45M/50M is about as high and long as I would go with Elliott

 

[Shane_O_Mac812]

I've literally laid out every major statistic for QBs across the board and he's average in almost every single one of them. It's hilarious you pissy Cowboys' fans keep saying I'm "cherry-picking" when I'm showing every relevant QB stat and then several in-depth qualitative ones. Sorry you didn't see the results you want. If anything, you guys are the ones cherry-picking by using team metrics to say it's all Dak (4th quarter comebacks, for example) to show how great he is.

No, Dak is not the main reason. That's absolutely ridiculous. Zeke and the OL have propped him up and he's going to cash in big time on it. Is he a good QB? Yep. Is he a $30M+ level QB in this day and age? Absolutely not, but that's what you're gonna make him, even if he comes out with another year of average-level stats compared to other QBs. Then we'll just hear more excuses about how bad his cast has been or how his offense holds him back or some other idiotic excuses you haven't thought up yet. Rinse and repeat.

I love these current Cowboy fans. They are convinced in their minds that Dak is a top 15 qb and he barely makes top 20. These are the same fans that booed the best qb they ever had until he retired.

 

[Shane_O_Mac812]

I don't think it does. The roster as a whole looks pretty damn good. I don't think Zeek not playing isca death sentence.
Now lose one of Dak, T. Smith or Martin could derail the season.

Dallas was never in Super Bowl contention. They may get the 6th seed tops.