I think Palmer just took the lead for MVP

[Jakology]

The panthers have played the saints twice,the falcons twice, About to play the Buccs again,Jacksonville,Hoiuston.Indy,Tennessee,Phill,NYG,Dallas,Washington.......... And to say Cam doesn't have more to work with is a fallacy aside from Stewart he's had high production out of Olson who has been A beast and Ginn. The piece that really stands out is the higher level of pass protection he has played with.

When Newton is given a clean pocket, his passer rating is 114.9 – 16.1 points ABOVE the NFL average

When Newton is pressured, his passer rating is 57.9 – 13.7 points BELOW the NFL average.

Palmer is under pressure on 42.2 percent of snaps (Newton is pressured on just 34.2 percent of snaps), the third-worst figure in the league

View attachment 71078


If you flipped the scripts with what was shown by both this season and what they had to work with. It paints A very clear picture of who was more valuable to their team. Cam had A lot more to work with then we are led to believe. While Palmer was extremely productive with less to work with. Cam does have a more valuable O line tho

I've conceded that the Panthers have one of the best O lines. They have for years now. But I think it's pretty clear that the Cardinals weapons > Panthers weapons. Isn't that the main reason think the Cardinals are better, because they are more complete offense? And I don't know where that 30th rating came from for the Cardinals RBs? They have the deepest backfield in the league by a country mile. If it wasn't for Chris Johnson's injury, they'd have a epic 3 headed monster back there. I'm a big Palmer fan, and I'm happy for him, but I just think Cam has been more impressive overall.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

I've conceded that the Panthers have one of the best O lines. They have for years now. But I think it's pretty clear that the Cardinals weapons > Panthers weapons. Isn't that the main reason think the Cardinals are better, because they are more complete offense? And I don't know where that 30th rating came from for the Cardinals RBs? They have the deepest backfield in the league by a country mile. If it wasn't for Chris Johnson's injury, they'd have a epic 3 headed monster back there. I'm a big Palmer fan, and I'm happy for him, but I just think Cam has been more impressive overall.

While it may appear that way if you look at the stats. Stewart had a more productive season than Johnson. In fact the Panthers were 2nd in rushing to Arizona being 6th. Newton isn't minus weapons either Olson and Ginn are prime examples. The major difference is in the O Line. For Palmer to achieve what he did with the pressure he received and the O Line he had to work with. And Newtons stats being subpar in comparison with the O Line he had to work with. Is very telling. Newton is getting A lot more credit than he deserves. Its most valuable player not team. Am I supposed to Accentuate the P ?

 

[Tainthappening]

And again that would be Rodgers with his $22,000,000 he's worth this season. And deflecting from the fact that Cam wouldnt have had success without leaning on stewart,Olson and Ginn. If cam was as valuable as you would like to believe. His stats would be much more productive vs weak competition. And he wouldnt struggle without Stewart

Brees has the highest salary cap hit this year at $23.8m, Rodgers is #7 at $18.2M. Rodgers never even hits $22M a year... his extension was $22M/year but he still had one year on prior contract and pushed $33M up as signing bonus.

Cam played without Stewart vs Giants... he threw for 340 yards and 5 TDs and rushed for over 100 yards

I would take the top 3 WRs on Arizona for the Packers before I would take Tedd Ginn Jr.

 

[Jakology]

While it may appear that way if you look at the stats. Stewart had a more productive season than Johnson. In fact the Panthers were 2nd in rushing to Arizona being 6th. Newton isn't minus weapons either Olson and Ginn are prime examples. The major difference is in the O Line. For Palmer to achieve what he did with the pressure he received and the O Line he had to work with. And Newtons stats being subpar in comparison with the O Line he had to work with. Is very telling. Newton is getting A lot more credit than he deserves. Its most valuable player not team. Am I supposed to Accentuate the P ?

Agree to disagree. Big Palmer fan though and if the Panthers lose, I'll probably root for the Cardinals. Everybody deserves a Lombardi in their trophy case.

 

[Tainthappening]

While it may appear that way if you look at the stats. Stewart had a more productive season than Johnson. In fact the Panthers were 2nd in rushing to Arizona being 6th. Newton isn't minus weapons either Olson and Ginn are prime examples. The major difference is in the O Line. For Palmer to achieve what he did with the pressure he received and the O Line he had to work with. And Newtons stats being subpar in comparison with the O Line he had to work with. Is very telling. Newton is getting A lot more credit than he deserves. Its most valuable player not team. Am I supposed to Accentuate the P ?

Arizona Oline is not all that bad either... they have given up less sacks (25) than Carolina (29) with nearly 50 more passing attempts. Teams are also averaging nearly same yards/rush attempt.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Brees has the highest salary cap hit this year at $23.8m, Rodgers is #7 at $18.2M. Rodgers never even hits $22M a year... his extension was $22M/year but he still had one year on prior contract and pushed $33M up as signing bonus.

Cam played without Stewart vs Giants... he threw for 340 yards and 5 TDs and rushed for over 100 yards

I would take the top 3 WRs on Arizona for the Packers before I would take Tedd Ginn Jr.

I was being a wise ass but ok Bree's gets most valuable player Give Palmer Olson Ginn and the Carolina O Line and he breaks 400 yards and 5 TDs. Weapons are only what you make of them when you're pressured at the rate Palmer was. That's what separates a most valuable player from a most valuable team. Or are we still pretending Newton had nothing to work with? Stewart is 6th in rushing even after missing games. And still ahead of Johnson. Olson and Ginn have been money. The O line is the key tho put Palmer behind the panthers line his numbers go up. Put Newton behind the Arizona line we are t even talking about him

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Arizona Oline is not all that bad either... they have given up less sacks (25) than Carolina (29) with nearly 50 more passing attempts. Teams are also averaging nearly same yards/rush attempt.

I already posted the most significant stat. And provided stats that related it to how it has over inflated cams value. You may want to reasses that statement

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Arizona Oline is not all that bad either... they have given up less sacks (25) than Carolina (29) with nearly 50 more passing attempts. Teams are also averaging nearly same yards/rush attempt.

Here i'll get you caught up. Its not MVO


When Newton is given a clean pocket, his passer rating is 114.9 – 16.1 points ABOVE the NFL average

When Newton is pressured, his passer rating is 57.9 – 13.7 points BELOW the NFL average.

Palmer is under pressure on 42.2 percent of snaps (Newton is pressured on just 34.2 percent of snaps), the third-worst figure in the league

View attachment 71078


If you flipped the scripts with what was shown by both this season and what they had to work with. It paints A very clear picture of who was more valuable to their team. Cam had A lot more to work with then we are led to believe. While Palmer was extremely productive with less to work with. Cam does have a more valuable O line tho

 

[Tainthappening]

I was being a wise ass but ok Bree's gets most valuable player Give Palmer Olson Ginn and the Carolina O Line and he breaks 400 yards and 5 TDs. Weapons are only what you make of them when you're pressured at the rate Palmer was. That's what separates a most valuable player from a most valuable team. Or are we still pretending Newton had nothing to work with? Stewart is 6th in rushing even after missing games. And still ahead of Johnson. Olson and Ginn have been money. The O line is the key tho put Palmer behind the panthers line his numbers go up. Put Newton behind the Arizona line we are t even talking about him

You are underrating the Arizona Oline.. Palmer has been sacked 25 times thus far, that is #4 in the NFL behind Ravens, Jets and Rams.

Maybe you are confused watching last weeks game... Rodgers had not time and was sacked 8 times... he plays for the Packers, not the Cardinals who dismantled the Packers. Rodgers has been sacked 42 times this year... wish it was only 25 times.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

You are underrating the Arizona Oline.. Palmer has been sacked 25 times thus far, that is #4 in the NFL behind Ravens, Jets and Rams.

Maybe you are confused watching last weeks game... Rodgers had not time and was sacked 8 times... he plays for the Packers, not the Cardinals who dismantled the Packers. Rodgers has been sacked 42 times this year... wish it was only 25 times.

You're over rating the significance of the carolina O Line and the significance they have had on Carolinas season. And under rating what Palmer has done under A ton of pressure. I'll give you some time to ponder that while I get some work done

 

[Tainthappening]

Here i'll get you caught up. Its not MVO


When Newton is given a clean pocket, his passer rating is 114.9 – 16.1 points ABOVE the NFL average

When Newton is pressured, his passer rating is 57.9 – 13.7 points BELOW the NFL average.

Palmer is under pressure on 42.2 percent of snaps (Newton is pressured on just 34.2 percent of snaps), the third-worst figure in the league

View attachment 71078


If you flipped the scripts with what was shown by both this season and what they had to work with. It paints A very clear picture of who was more valuable to their team. Cam had A lot more to work with then we are led to believe. While Palmer was extremely productive with less to work with. Cam does have a more valuable O line tho

Cards have given up 25 sacks, there are 12 teams that have given up 40+ sacks and a few that have given up 2x as many the Cards. I can tell you from watching the Packers.. their OL is vastly worse than Cards... they had better be at the #32 spot in your stats.

Not surprised if Palmer receives some more pressure, Cards throw downfield more than most as evidenced by their league leading 13.7 yards/reception, they are asking the OL to block longer.

Flipped scripts Palmer would not be happy with who he had to throw to other than his TE.

 

[PDay8810]

pretty close call and I wouldn't have a problem with either as this years MVP.

I'll stick with Newton as who I think gets the nod

 

[johnson]

As an AZ fan, I think Cam is more than worthy of being the other guy in the MVP conversation with MVPalmer. Once you lead your team to 13-15 wins in a season, it's no joke. The idea that some guy who looked great for a patch of the year on a 9 win team is in the conversation is laughable (unless the team surrounding him is terrible or something).

My vote is for MVPalmer, but I wouldn't be offended if you voted for Cam.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Cards have given up 25 sacks, there are 12 teams that have given up 40+ sacks and a few that have given up 2x as many the Cards. I can tell you from watching the Packers.. their OL is vastly worse than Cards... they had better be at the #32 spot in your stats.

Not surprised if Palmer receives some more pressure, Cards throw downfield more than most as evidenced by their league leading 13.7 yards/reception, they are asking the OL to block longer.

Flipped scripts Palmer would not be happy with who he had to throw to other than his TE.

Im going to need more than that until you provide a more substantial argument based in facts and stats. Common sense the panthers are just as equipped with Olson Ginn and Stewart. Add a prow bowl O line palmer pics teams apart with time.Give newton the cards O line and Newton crumbles under pressure as he normally does when he receives it. Weapons are worthless without time.Palmer has been a miracle worker under pressure Thats supported in the stats provided.Im going to have to take away your stapler and move your office to the basement.

 

[Tainthappening]

My vote is for MVPalmer, but I wouldn't be offended if you voted for Cam.

May come down to week 17... if either plays poorly, the other most likely wins it.

It was Cam`s to lose starting last week.. with the loss and poor performance vs Falcons Palmer is back in the conversation and maybe Brady as well.

 

[Tainthappening]

Im going to need more than that until you provide a more substantial argument based in facts and stats. Common sense the panthers are just as equipped with Olson Ginn and Stewart. Add a prow bowl O line palmer pics teams apart with time.Give newton the cards O line and Newton crumbles under pressure as he normally does when he receives it. Weapons are worthless without time.Palmer has been a miracle worker under pressure Thats supported in the stats provided.Im going to have to take away your stapler and move your office to the basement.

Well no basements where I live and no stapler at home (no need) or at the office "paperless". Not buying your stats on the OLs and fact you call Ginn a weapon I at least have found some humor in this exchange.

I also like D. Johnson more than Stewart... both C. Johnson and D. Johnson average more yards per carry than Stewart (who I will say is a weapon... all 3 are weapons). I doubt you can find many Cards that do not agree regarding D. Johnson... he is great running the ball and catching it out of the backfield.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Well no basements where I live and no stapler at home (no need) or at the office "paperless". Not buying your stats on the OLs and fact you call Ginn a weapon I at least have found some humor in this exchange.

I also like D. Johnson more than Stewart... both C. Johnson and D. Johnson average more yards per carry than Stewart (who I will say is a weapon... all 3 are weapons). I doubt you can find many Cards that do not agree regarding D. Johnson... he is great running the ball and catching it out of the backfield.

I'll be waiting for something concrete to back up your arguement. Opinions don't hold weight without supportive stats. And the stats negate your arguement

 

[Uhsplit]

It's just as frustrating because what he says is false. Carolina does not have a bad O-line. They also have plenty of weapons.


Just speaking of Resume in 2015. That's it. Years past are totally irrelevant for 2015 MVP.

If there was an award for who played for the team that won the most playoff games in the past few years, RW wins hands down.

My mistake and apologies as I assumed you were talking career.
FWIW, I agree, Palmer gets my vote.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I just can't see them giving it to Palmer because of Cams rushing stats. If the Panthers lose next week and Cam plays poorly, while the Cards win and Palmer plays well, I could see it. However if the vote was today, they give it to Cam.

 

[futballiscool]

I'm a Bengals fan who used to defend Palmer as a top flight franchise QB for years. He's probably my favorite player of alltime. He's having an MVP caliber year, but Cam is the MVP. There's no other player in the league who can do what Cam is doing with the Panthers offense