Free Agency Thread

[Cincyfan78]

Are we ruling out the option of potentially trading up a little bit in round 1 and using our first, Williams and a 3rd to get in position for Mayer?

Is Williams worth that? Not sure

Biggest obstacle for Williams trade, IMO, is a team willing to either pay him 12.6 coming off a really bad year and an injury or willing to re-negotiate upon the trade coming off a bad year and an injury.

His overall grades since coming into the league are middling at best....while a team in need may pay him this year the 12.6, I doubt the worth of that would allow the Bengals to move up any significant margin.

And, if we are being honest - Mayer is a bit of a ??? - Yeah, he's got skill - but he's also had a list of some injuries as well...if he fell to the Bengals at 28, sure...but losing a draft pick to go get him....not so much. Not when there's enough depth at TE to get some really good guys who, may not have the ceiling of Mayer, but certainly have a higher floor than just being a low end #2 TE on an NFL roster.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I don't see them trading up. I think Duke was reluctant to do it last year as it cost him draft picks..... The Brown signing just took the 3rd round comp pick for Bates off the table. The Bengals are going to need to start developing some draft picks to fill in the gaps when the big contracts start hitting. For a team that has been very hit-or-miss in the draft, the more picks we have the better chances we'll have to hit on them.

If anything, I could see them trading down and getting a later 3rd or earlier 4th round pick.

Let's say they can trade Williams for a 5th...and then trade down for another 4th. That allows them some real wiggle room in the 2nd and 3rd to maybe slightly reach for a guy they really like knowing that they will find some real solid value in the 4th or 5th.

Also means they could package those picks and move up in the 2nd/3rd without actually losing any base picks...

 

[jbuck]

Burrow gets TE's paid. we did well with mediocre TEs

 

[Cincyfan78]

Burrow gets TE's paid. we did well with mediocre TEs

Agreed. Still think they end up with a guy like Moreau...the market isn't exactly on fire - and playing with Burrow for a year can bump you up the list for the next year...ask Uzomah and then Hurst...

It also likely means the Bengals will be patient at TE in the draft.....there are all kinds of guys that will be available from rounds 1-5....though I think the 1st rounders likely won't make it to 28, LaPorta is the only one I'd likely grab in round 2, and then everyone else is late 3rd or 4-5th rounds IMO...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Agreed. Still think they end up with a guy like Moreau...the market isn't exactly on fire - and playing with Burrow for a year can bump you up the list for the next year...ask Uzomah and then Hurst...

It also likely means the Bengals will be patient at TE in the draft.....there are all kinds of guys that will be available from rounds 1-5....though I think the 1st rounders likely won't make it to 28, LaPorta is the only one I'd likely grab in round 2, and then everyone else is late 3rd or 4-5th rounds IMO...

I thought you were really down on LaPorta? Before It seemed like you were hesitant on taking him with a 3rd rounder, but now you think 2nd may be okay. May I ask what further information you gathered that changed your mind on the guy? I am just curious because it seems like most posts you make about LaPorta are positive now or at least willing to see Bengals draft him.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

If we get Moreau, I am perfectly comfortable seeing the Bengals go another direction. I am still not opposed to seeing us take Jones for RT for a year behind Ford if need be, but at least make the position a good competition. Then of course we could always go best available player too to build depth.

I would not be opposed to taking RB Bijan Robinson with our 1st pick if he falls to the 28th pick. I think re-signing of Pratt and the free agent signings Orlando Brown Jr., Nick Scott, Cody Ford, and if we sign Moreau...it gives the Bengals the benefit of going best available player with our pick.

 

[DanBengalfan]

looking more and more like we plan to address both TE and RB in the draft.

I think we sorta addressed Safety in the last draft, addressed the OL in free agency the past 2 years

would like to see us improve pass rush, maybe some depth at CB, and improve the DL, we hardly touched ol' sir patrick

 

[Cincyfan78]

I thought you were really down on LaPorta? Before It seemed like you were hesitant on taking him with a 3rd rounder, but now you think 2nd may be okay. May I ask what further information you gathered that changed your mind on the guy? I am just curious because it seems like most posts you make about LaPorta are positive now or at least willing to see Bengals draft him.

My big worry is making the contested catch, which he struggled to do in college. Is that something he can work on? I don't know, but how many balls a game do you actually need to make contested catches? If we are talking less than 1, then it's probably something that may not be a huge deal...but it still is a concern. In crunch time, we can't have Burrow checking it down to him, only to have him miss making the tough catch in a close game. However, reality is - I think everyone has concern, and in the 2nd round...I'd guess he'll be a fine pick considering I don't think any of the other top TE's are going to be available at 28 and the next tier is fine...but also have more questions. It's less about whether I think he's a 2nd or a 3rd, and more about where the value lays in consideration of the rest of the draft.

Personally - I really like Whyle from UC. He's got size, a willing blocker, and has enough speed to be a threat. Size, solid hands. I think the offense kind of limited his potential last year, but he quietly still had some really good numbers despite the change in QB and offensive focus. He was also asked to block a lot more, likely limiting the number of routes he ran by comparison to the previous year(s). I think you could get him in the 4th - that means you could use the 2nd in a variety of different ways...but if you pass on LaPorta at 60, and let's say Whyle is a target (or any other 4th or 5th round guy) and they go sooner than you expect....then what? There's depth at the position, but that only assumes that you take advantage of it at the right time....

 

[Cincyfan78]

If we get Moreau, I am perfectly comfortable seeing the Bengals go another direction. I am still not opposed to seeing us take Jones for RT for a year behind Ford if need be, but at least make the position a good competition. Then of course we could always go best available player too to build depth.

I would not be opposed to taking RB Bijan Robinson with our 1st pick if he falls to the 28th pick. I think re-signing of Pratt and the free agent signings Orlando Brown Jr., Nick Scott, Cody Ford, and if we sign Moreau...it gives the Bengals the benefit of going best available player with our pick.

Even if they get Moreau, I think they still hit on TE sometime in the draft...currently, I think they have 1 TE under contract?? The room needs bodies, and at some point they either need to find someone they feel they can pay for 3-4 years, or draft someone...I think they look for Moreau on a 1 year, or 2 year deal, and still look to hit on TE in the draft at some point.

 

[Cincyfan78]

 

[CrashDavisSports]

They also had a trade idea for the Bengals with Williams on ESPN.

They suggested trading Williams straight up to the Jets for Mekhi Becton, where if he passed a physical would move to the RT position for the Bengals. High risk, high reward if healthy they said.

I am not sure thay really helps the Bengals cap wise though, but those would be two big fn men on the outside edges.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Even if they get Moreau, I think they still hit on TE sometime in the draft...currently, I think they have 1 TE under contract?? The room needs bodies, and at some point they either need to find someone they feel they can pay for 3-4 years, or draft someone...I think they look for Moreau on a 1 year, or 2 year deal, and still look to hit on TE in the draft at some point.

Oh I know they would still select a TE in the draft, but having Moreau definitely lets them focus on it in later rounds versus having to go early.

I still think Washington with his size, speed and downright nastiness blocking on the line would help Burrow in a couple ways. That is one big ass dude with a mean streak. He wasn't used in the passing game much because of Brock Bowers. I can see him being a real stud, and if not, we have one hell of a blocking TE and we go after the pass catching TE next year.

So many directions we could go in and I would be perfectly fine with any of them.

 

[Cincyfan78]

They also had a trade idea for the Bengals with Williams on ESPN.

They suggested trading Williams straight up to the Jets for Mekhi Becton, where if he passed a physical would move to the RT position for the Bengals. High risk, high reward if healthy they said.

I am not sure thay really helps the Bengals cap wise though, but those would be two big fn men on the outside edges.

If I'm the Bengals - I'm not interested in a player swap...

Give me the cap money and draft pick. If it takes 2-3M to secure a 3rd rounder, I'd be god with that. 9M in cap space, and an extra 3rd rounder...yes please.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Oh I know they would still select a TE in the draft, but having Moreau definitely lets them focus on it in later rounds versus having to go early.

I still think Washington with his size, speed and downright nastiness blocking on the line would help Burrow in a couple ways. That is one big ass dude with a mean streak. He wasn't used in the passing game much because of Brock Bowers. I can see him being a real stud, and if not, we have one hell of a blocking TE and we go after the pass catching TE next year.

So many directions we could go in and I would be perfectly fine with any of them.

Problem is - if you spend a 2nd round pick on him...and he turns out to be just a blocking TE...that's a wasted pick. That's a really high boom/bust reward for that pick.

I think he'd be fine, personally, but if you are drafting someone in the first few rounds, I need to see some production. Then again - if the Bengals landed an extra pick via the Williams trade...you can risk a pick like this because while it may cost you a 2nd rounder...you still have 2 thirds coming up....

 

[CrashDavisSports]

If I'm the Bengals - I'm not interested in a player swap...

Give me the cap money and draft pick. If it takes 2-3M to secure a 3rd rounder, I'd be god with that. 9M in cap space, and an extra 3rd rounder...yes please.

We are never getting a 3rd rounder man. 5-7 is best we are going to do with the cap hit the trading team is taking on with Williams.

But I am with you. I think at this point I want a pick and less money being used as well.

 

[Cincyfan78]

We are never getting a 3rd rounder man. 5-7 is best we are going to do with the cap hit the trading team is taking on with Williams.

But I am with you. I think at this point I want a pick and less money being used as well.

I've seen a few articles, one by a Jax writer, saying the first option would be to trade for Williams straight up with a 3rd rounder.

His output isn't great, but the big seller would be his experience and he's a LT...good or not, that's a premium on a market that doesn't have a lot of experience at LT available without Tunstill and Brown now that both are signed.

If that meant kicking in an addition 2-3M to secure the 3rd rounder...I'm good with that. That means whatever team gets him is paying 9M, which isn't terrible for a 3+ year starting LT - which they could negotiate and help with the numbers - and the 3rd rounder isn't going to bring that kind of value for the trade...so it could work out.

But, again - if I am the Bengals - I'm looking at this more like a 9-12M cap savings for this year - in which I can start an additional extension talk (Wilson? Reader? Awuzie?) with designs of absorbing a good chunk of money this year against the cap suddenly freeing up cap in next years' market - or adding a veteran guy, or two, to really bring the bottom of a few groups up in talent...WR room could use a guy, as could CB.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I've seen a few articles, one by a Jax writer, saying the first option would be to trade for Williams straight up with a 3rd rounder.

His output isn't great, but the big seller would be his experience and he's a LT...good or not, that's a premium on a market that doesn't have a lot of experience at LT available without Tunstill and Brown now that both are signed.

If that meant kicking in an addition 2-3M to secure the 3rd rounder...I'm good with that. That means whatever team gets him is paying 9M, which isn't terrible for a 3+ year starting LT - which they could negotiate and help with the numbers - and the 3rd rounder isn't going to bring that kind of value for the trade...so it could work out.

But, again - if I am the Bengals - I'm looking at this more like a 9-12M cap savings for this year - in which I can start an additional extension talk (Wilson? Reader? Awuzie?) with designs of absorbing a good chunk of money this year against the cap suddenly freeing up cap in next years' market - or adding a veteran guy, or two, to really bring the bottom of a few groups up in talent...WR room could use a guy, as could CB.

I see what you are saying, but I say we start with Burrow and Higgins before we move on to Wilson, Reader and Awuzie.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I see what you are saying, but I say we start with Burrow and Higgins before we move on to Wilson, Reader and Awuzie.

Agreed.

Though, Duke said recently they have the outline on Burrow...so that isn't hindering anything moving forward. They may be waiting to see how much is left over for this year to see how much additional they can add towards this years' cap to remove some of the burden off future years...dunno on that, just a guess...but he did say that Burrow's contract isn't preventing anything else contractually.

I've not heard anything on Higgins...so, anyone's guess...but, if they went into this off-season with designs on trying to land both guys in extensions this year - I'd have to say that suddenly coming up with 9-12M is cap unexpectedly wouldn't likely be specifically needed towards that goal. Williams cap hit was already factored in since they picked up the 5th year option. So, currently - that is cap money allocated against the team, but would suddenly come open if he's traded.

I mean - if you really wanted to go down the rabbit hole of creating some serious cash flow this year:

Cut Mixon - 6M
Cut Collins - 5M
Trade Williams - 9-12 M.

Suddenly - you have an additional 20M in cap space....and that's not including maybe looking to restructure Boyd...So, the money is there to get extensions done for Burrow, Higgins, and start to maybe focus on a few key guys for '24 to get ahead of the game....but with Burrow and Higgins (IMO, especially Higgins) it will come down to what they are looking for in terms of extensions.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Agreed.

Though, Duke said recently they have the outline on Burrow...so that isn't hindering anything moving forward. They may be waiting to see how much is left over for this year to see how much additional they can add towards this years' cap to remove some of the burden off future years...dunno on that, just a guess...but he did say that Burrow's contract isn't preventing anything else contractually.

I've not heard anything on Higgins...so, anyone's guess...but, if they went into this off-season with designs on trying to land both guys in extensions this year - I'd have to say that suddenly coming up with 9-12M is cap unexpectedly wouldn't likely be specifically needed towards that goal. Williams cap hit was already factored in since they picked up the 5th year option. So, currently - that is cap money allocated against the team, but would suddenly come open if he's traded.

I mean - if you really wanted to go down the rabbit hole of creating some serious cash flow this year:

Cut Mixon - 6M
Cut Collins - 5M
Trade Williams - 9-12 M.

Suddenly - you have an additional 20M in cap space....and that's not including maybe looking to restructure Boyd...So, the money is there to get extensions done for Burrow, Higgins, and start to maybe focus on a few key guys for '24 to get ahead of the game....but with Burrow and Higgins (IMO, especially Higgins) it will come down to what they are looking for in terms of extensions.

You cut Mixon after June 1st you save over $10 million on the cap this year.

 

[Cincyfan78]

You cut Mixon after June 1st you save over $10 million on the cap this year.

That is true, but you add to the dead money for next year....I was looking to maybe avoid that, as the Bengals typically do...but you are right...you do that and suddenly you have additional money to add up front....

The ways forward to getting just about anything, and everything, done right now are there...it's a matter of the contracts themselves and making the moves to correlate.