Game Thread: Wk 6: Seattle Seahawks @ Pittsburgh Steelers

[Anointed One]

Well, as I predicted, winnable - but we just had to do it (and we didn't)

Better defensive performance than I had hoped for, so that's at least a positive.

I see what you’re saying but the Steelers have a pretty bad offense

 

[Anointed One]

…

 

[blstoker]

I see what you’re saying but the Steelers have a pretty bad offense

And we have a pretty bad defense. Hell, they survived being on the field 20 minutes in the first half, which I didn't think they would be able to do.

 

[WizardHawk]

Was he making plays, yes but in a different way. He was constantly on the in the backfield, Rushing Burger. Hell he almost had 2 picks. But....

So, almost 2 picks in a game they lost tells you he's worth all of those draft picks and all of that money.

What are his season totals so far?
ZERO picks. ZERO sacks. ZERO forced fumbles.
OK, here's a non-zero one for you, he has 1 total pass defense THIS SEASON. ONE. The whole year.
So maybe TFL? Nope, he's not at zero there either. He is at 2y total for the year.

He hasn't been doing shit in pass coverage, no sacks at all, not disrupting the run game in the backfield, but he's worth 15M this year right sport?

Get a grip. He's been a huge factor in the losses so far.

One last bonus stat: He's given up 9 receptions so far. That's tied for 25th in the league.

Wake up man. We wasted a shit load on this guy and will pay a big price in missing out on a draft pick next year as well for a team that will desperately need help all over the lineup.

It's a complete and total nightmare.

 

[returnofjakedog]

<Sigh>

Not only did Adams play a very good game today, he has been solid all year.

Despite the constant complaining about his coverage (or lack of therefore), his numbers have been very solid.

Before today's game Adams had allowed 9 catches on 16 targets for 77 yards and 1 TD for an 89.8 passer rating.......and I believe he had better numbers today.
Those numbers are far better than league average, let alone for the Seahawks.

At this point, people that keep on complaining about his pass defense this year are just plain fucking wrong.

The sacks numbers (or lack of) are bad but they were (before tonight) blitzing him less than 40% of the time they did last year. Admittedly he hasn't been overly effective when he has but the lack of aggression from the D as a whole is an issue, not just from Adams

Lastly, on his contract: It isn't a 5 year, $74 million deal. It is a 3 year, $33.2 million deal. It is extremely unlikely he sees the last 2 years of the base salary, as he will be given a reworked deal, traded, or cut after 3 years.
I don't know why I have to keep going over this. People know how NFL contracts work, and the numbers are not reality.
So just over $11 million a year for 3 years. Is he worth it? Highly questionable at this point but certainly not the huge overpay people stupidly keep saying it is.

So far he hasn't lived up to his contract numbers this year but he has been better than people say. Everyone keeps repeating the same dogma bullshit but no one ever bothers actually acknowledging his pass defense numbers or contract details when I point them out. Just pretend those details don't exist I guess.

But fuck that and fuck tonights' game. They were given several chances and just couldn't put it away. A good effort though.

More importantly, I hope Taylor will be ok. It could be a career ender, which is a crying shame for an up and coming force at DE.

 

[WizardHawk]

I gave real season stats. They don't lie. Go look at his PFF grade and how he compares to the rest of the safeties in the league. He is not having a good season by any measure.

Having said that, he also isn't close to the only problem on that defense. It is just frustrating how much they spent and how little they have to show for it. Those draft picks were too much price for what he is giving them this year.

 

[WizardHawk]

But everything is fine right?

 

[returnofjakedog]

I gave real season stats. They don't lie. Go look at his PFF grade and how he compares to the rest of the safeties in the league. He is not having a good season by any measure.

Having said that, he also isn't close to the only problem on that defense. It is just frustrating how much they spent and how little they have to show for it. Those draft picks were too much price for what he is giving them this year.

You are right. The stats don't lie. I also gave real season stats. Address what I listed. That is my issue. No one wants to address the actual stats.

The only stat you listed is that he allowed 9 receptions.
I will state AGAIN that he (before tonights game) had allowed 9 receptions on 16 targets for 77 yards and 1 TD against an 89.8 passer rating, which is above average.
Now please explain how that is horrible (because it isn't). Go look at the CBs numbers if you want to find the actual, real problem with the pass defense.

He also grades out high as a tackler.

*Is he worth the picks and salary? At this point, no. He has made some mistakes, and the coaches haven't schemed to use him correctly imo.
*Is he playing as bad as some people claim and as overpaid as they state? Also no.

Adams played well tonight. I agree that he isn't living up to his contract thus far. But he isn't the problem people here seem to think.
The much bigger issue is that we drafted a #3 WR who has been injured all year when we barely had an NFL level quality CB on the roster. It was a well known and obvious issue but, as we have too often seen, they didn't seemed too concerned about addressing actual big weaknesses.

 

[WizardHawk]

You are right. The stats don't lie. I also gave real season stats. Address what I listed. That is my issue. No one wants to address the actual stats.

The only stat you listed is that he allowed 9 receptions.
I will state AGAIN that he (before tonights game) had allowed 9 receptions on 16 targets for 77 yards and 1 TD against an 89.8 passer rating, which is above average.
Now please explain how that is horrible (because it isn't). Go look at the CBs numbers if you want to find the actual, real problem with the pass defense.

He also grades out high as a tackler.

*Is he worth the picks and salary? At this point, no. He has made some mistakes, and the coaches haven't schemed to use him correctly imo.
*Is he playing as bad as some people claim and as overpaid as they state? Also no.

Adams played well tonight. I agree that he isn't living up to his contract thus far. But he isn't the problem people here seem to think.
The much bigger issue is that we drafted a #3 WR who has been injured all year when we barely had an NFL level quality CB on the roster. It was a well known and obvious issue but, as we have too often seen, they didn't seemed too concerned about addressing actual big weaknesses.

I already addressed yours before you ever posted it. 9 passes ties him for 25th. Why do you demand I cover it more than once?

And your 'much bigger issue' does nothing to address that the defense first hawks are basically dead last in defense.

At least they broke the streak of consecutive games giving up 450+ yards which was one of the worst starts by a NFL defense since the merger.

This is a historically bad defense, but for some reason, some of you are stuck on blaming most of these losses on anything happening on offense to deflect from just how terrible this defense really is.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Defense played respectable, good news, we didn’t sit in zones all night, actually watched DB’s play up on the receivers, not 15 yards back… Overall I thought we battled, showed some heart … DK was almost an absolute horses azz not getting out of bounds!! I couldn’t even believe how stupid that was … He’s dam lucky we got the field goal attempt or it would be front page news …

 

[Mariners_44]

Defense played respectable, good news, we didn’t sit in zones all night, actually watched DB’s play up on the receivers, not 15 yards back… Overall I thought we battled, showed some heart … DK was almost an absolute horses azz not getting out of bounds!! I couldn’t even believe how stupid that was … He’s dam lucky we got the field goal attempt or it would be front page news …

I sat there baffled as I watched him turn up field wondering what the hell I was watching. If he goes out there we still have around :10 left on the clock which offers up the option for one more play to the end zone before a FG. That play didn't cost us thankfully, but it did take away one more throw to the end zone which may very well have won us the game. He really does some dumb shit at the wrong time.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Yah DKs not the first bonehead to make that mistake, but it's still a boneheaded move.

 

[returnofjakedog]

I already addressed yours before you ever posted it. 9 passes ties him for 25th. Why do you demand I cover it more than once?

And your 'much bigger issue' does nothing to address that the defense first hawks are basically dead last in defense.

At least they broke the streak of consecutive games giving up 450+ yards which was one of the worst starts by a NFL defense since the merger.

This is a historically bad defense, but for some reason, some of you are stuck on blaming most of these losses on anything happening on offense to deflect from just how terrible this defense really is.

You did not address it. You addressed one single stat: receptions allowed.

"I will state AGAIN that he (before tonights game) had allowed 9 receptions on 16 targets for 77 yards and 1 TD against an 89.8 passer rating, which is above average."
Can you acknowledge anything beyond receptions?
Note: you keep stating "25th". 25th in what? By what criteria?
There are 64 starting safeties, so 25th puts him at above average. As I stated, that doesn't play up to his contract numbers but it does seem to contradict your "he is horrible" theory (and he should grade up some after last night).

-My "much bigger issue" has everything to do with yardage allowed. The CB play has been far, far worse than the safety play.

Also using yardage allowed is a poor indicator of defense, much like using QB passing yards.
Have they been bad? Yes. Very bad.
But after last night they are 20th in the league in points allowed at 24.8 ppg. Nearly a TD better than Washington. Better than 12 other teams so far. Hardly historially bad from that perspective.

Do I want to defend this shitty D? No. But calling it "historically bad" is misleading and highly questionable.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Note: you keep stating "25th". 25th in what? By what criteria?
There are 64 starting safeties, so 25th puts him at above average. As I stated, that doesn't play up to his contract numbers but it does seem to contradict

PFF said he was 25th ranked in receptions allowed at 9. He's at 11 now and I think PFF said it was 22. PFFs ranking on that category is actually kind of weird... the LESS receptions allowed the LOWER your rank. Like Micah Hyde (who is the #2 rated safety on their site, although they take a lot into account, they're not the be all end all of ranking) is rated 52nd and has allowed only 6 receptions. Tracy Walker is ranked 80th and only allowed 3. So technically he's below average.

That said, receptions allowed is subjective... because 1) how many times have you been targeted? Jamal has been targeted more than ANY of those guys (over double the amount Hyde is targeted), and 2) how good is your pass rush or plays getting extended? We all know coverage breaks down. 3) how good of offenses are you playing? SHOCKER both the Buffalo safeties are high... yes they're very good, but so is that entire fuckin' defense.

PFF has Jamal rated really low this year... 90 passer rating when targeted isn't exactly great, but one interception can change that stat real quick (he should've had one last night, ball hit him right off the chest... was like he was AI in Madden lol. Didn't even react to it.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure how PFF comes up with their calculations (nobody really is) but Jamal has been pretty lackluster this year. I blame a lot of that on a) his supporting cast, b) Mostly Norton, and c) how they're utilizing Jamal in the schemes he's good at (which has been mostly non-existent).

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Adams season as a whole has been lack luster but I blame that on the scheme that Norton comes up with. Yesterday he was back to doing what he normally does and that was a good sign and hopefully Norton continues that trend.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Adams season as a whole has been lack luster but I blame that on the scheme that Norton comes up with. Yesterday he was back to doing what he normally does and that was a good sign and hopefully Norton continues that trend.

Yeah man, let Adams be Adams, recognize his skill set and use him to his strengths ….

 

[returnofjakedog]

PFF said he was 25th ranked in receptions allowed at 9. He's at 11 now and I think PFF said it was 22. PFFs ranking on that category is actually kind of weird... the LESS receptions allowed the LOWER your rank. Like Micah Hyde (who is the #2 rated safety on their site, although they take a lot into account, they're not the be all end all of ranking) is rated 52nd and has allowed only 6 receptions. Tracy Walker is ranked 80th and only allowed 3. So technically he's below average.

That said, receptions allowed is subjective... because 1) how many times have you been targeted? Jamal has been targeted more than ANY of those guys (over double the amount Hyde is targeted), and 2) how good is your pass rush or plays getting extended? We all know coverage breaks down. 3) how good of offenses are you playing? SHOCKER both the Buffalo safeties are high... yes they're very good, but so is that entire fuckin' defense.

PFF has Jamal rated really low this year... 90 passer rating when targeted isn't exactly great, but one interception can change that stat real quick (he should've had one last night, ball hit him right off the chest... was like he was AI in Madden lol. Didn't even react to it.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure how PFF comes up with their calculations (nobody really is) but Jamal has been pretty lackluster this year. I blame a lot of that on a) his supporting cast, b) Mostly Norton, and c) how they're utilizing Jamal in the schemes he's good at (which has been mostly non-existent).

All fair enough. Thank you for actually addressing some of my points.

I agree that Adams hasn't been great. I do think he has been better than most here believe, but he I do agree he isn't worth the 3 year, $11.1 million a year that his contract actually is.

As far as passer rating allowed, games by opposing QBs this year:
*Wentz- 102.0
*Tannehill- 94.5
*Cousins- 128.4
*Jimmy G./Lance- 95.8
*Stafford- 97.3
*Ben R.- 94.7
Overall Seahawks' D passer rating: 100.62

(Note: I found this passer rating calculator if anyone is interested-
NFL Passer Rating Calculator | Pro-Football-Reference.com )

Adams rating is the equivalent of the 20th rated passer in the league, and ~11 points higher than the team as a whole. Not great but, again, slightly above average for the league as an overall DB and certainly better than our CBs this year (hopefully this will change with Flowers gone, and Jones hopefully improving).

More than anything, I just hope Taylor is going to be ok.

 

[Judge Fudge]

Yeah man, let Adams be Adams, recognize his skill set and use him to his strengths ….

Which is a been screaming to move him to OLB

 

[Anointed One]

It was hard watching TJ Watt, the Steelers defensive superstar making plays all over the field last night... Huge plays in critical situations... Yet our defensive superstars aren't even making much of an impression, let alone their presence known... Adams/Wagner... Sad that Tre Brown was the star of the show in his first ever NFL game...

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

It was hard watching TJ Watt, the Steelers defensive superstar making plays all over the field last night... Huge plays in critical situations... Yet our defensive superstars aren't even making much of an impression, let alone their presence known... Adams/Wagner... Sad that Tre Brown was the star of the show in his first ever NFL game...

Wagner isn't having a GREAT year, but he's still there... can only do so much.

What's frustrating is watching an elite talent like Adams used 100% incorrectly. That's not to say Adams is not to blame, he had two GIMME interceptions that he should've had... and we likely if not assuredly win the game with them.