Will A-Roid "OuT" LeRoids in Biogenisis scandal

[b_lake]

This is the problem with most Heat fans and Lebroniacs when it comes to the Kobe/Lebron debate. You assume that just because someone is a Lakers fan, they are also a Kobe fan.

For many (maybe even most) Lakers fans, this is simply not the case. For example, I was a Lakers fan before Kobe was born. I root for Kobe because he is a Laker and I am a Lakers fan. However, Kobe is not only NOT my favorite all-time Laker, he's not even my favorite current Laker (that would be Pau).

I appreciate how hard Kobe plays and the great times and 5 titles that he has helped bring to the Lakers. But as far as being a "Kobe fan", far from it!!

As for Lebron, if he were to become a Laker, I'd be glad to have him on the team because he is the best player in the game, but I would not suddenly become a "Lebron fan" just because he became a Laker. Basically, I'd look at him the same way that I do Kobe!!

That was my bad jumping to that conclusion..But the guy didn't prove me wrong about his opinion....To criticize LeBron based on the way he uses twitter to the way he chose to use his choice as a FA by a Kobe nut-hugger (only went there due to your use of Lebroniacs) screams hypocrisy to me...

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

This is the problem with most Heat fans and Lebroniacs when it comes to the Kobe/Lebron debate. You assume that just because someone is a Lakers fan, they are also a Kobe fan.

For many (maybe even most) Lakers fans, this is simply not the case. For example, I was a Lakers fan before Kobe was born. I root for Kobe because he is a Laker and I am a Lakers fan. However, Kobe is not only NOT my favorite all-time Laker, he's not even my favorite current Laker (that would be Pau).

I appreciate how hard Kobe plays and the great times and 5 titles that he has helped bring to the Lakers. But as far as being a "Kobe fan", far from it!!

As for Lebron, if he were to become a Laker, I'd be glad to have him on the team because he is the best player in the game, but I would not suddenly become a "Lebron fan" just because he became a Laker. Basically, I'd look at him the same way that I do Kobe!!

If you have a player on your roster and you are hoping they succeed, then how does that not make you a fan of them?

You can only have one favorite player. If you root for a team though, you are a fan of every player on the roster.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Doors,

What the fuck does a corked bat have to do with steroids? All of his bats were inspected after the incident and it turned out he only had one that was corked. In 2003, he bounced back from an injury and suspension-riddled first half to hit 30 homers in the 2nd half to help us win the division. Without him, we're not in the Playoffs in either 1998 or 2003. I'm not going to deny Sammy was juiced, but so were a lot of baseball stars in that era, as is LeBron. Again, who the fuck can guard a 270-pound wingman?

 

[trojanfan12]

[/B]If you have a player on your roster and you are hoping they succeed, then how does that not make you a fan of them?

You can only have one favorite player. If you root for a team though, you are a fan of every player on the roster.

That's splitting hairs and completely pointless to the topic. I am a Lakers fan, I always have been and barring something completely unforeseen, I always will be. I can be a fan of a team and NOT a fan of a particular player on that team.

I want Kobe to do well because his doing well benefits the team that I am a fan of, but that does not make me a Kobe fan. If Kobe were to leave the Lakers to go to another team, I would no longer care if he did well.

 

[trojanfan12]

That was my bad jumping to that conclusion..But the guy didn't prove me wrong about his opinion....To criticize LeBron based on the way he uses twitter to the way he chose to use his choice as a FA by a Kobe nut-hugger (only went there due to your use of Lebroniacs) screams hypocrisy to me...

I disagree re: the way Lebron uses twitter and I think that, like many, you misunderstand the objection that many of us have re: Lebron's use of free agency.

Twitter: Personally, I think all athletes should avoid twitter, etc. like the plague!! It seems to just create more controversy than anything else. One tweet sent in anger or even intended as a joke can blow up in someone's face and once it's out there, it's out there forever, no matter how quickly they delete it.

Free Agency: I have no issue with Lebron leaving Cleveland as a free agent. He had fulfilled his contact with the Cavs and was free to go where he wanted. What I do have an issue with is the way in which he went about it. People can say all they want about charity, etc. But I'm not buying it.

The way the whole thing was produced made the charity aspect of it look like an afterthought. To me, it looked like someone may have figured out at the last minute that Lebron could end up looking bad and came up with the charity angle to make it more palatable. I'm not saying that is what happened, just that it's how it looked. If they had actually spent some time talking about the charity, why Lebron supports it and what he has done for the charity previously, it would have come off a lot better, imo.

Instead, it looked like it was all about Lebron making himself bigger than the game and then "Oh, by the way, we're donating money to a charity"!!

 

[Jims_Doors]

Dij, what part of LeBron's game has severely increased over the years to suggest he's using PED's?

As far as Sosa goes, you say he never tested positive (but you admitted he was) but people said he was juicing. If he wasn't juicing then how many of those HRs from when they started increasing in totals were from using a corked bat.? The facts show he could have been using PED's AND a corked bat over those 5 or so years.

 

[Jims_Doors]

yep, he put pressure on the Lakers FO to get him better players to win 'ships. so what? he didn't LEAVE, did he...?:rollseyes:

He didn't OK the trade because Luol Deng was going to be a part of it:


Hoopsworld: Kobe vetoes trade to Bulls - Laker Nation

A source close to the situation says Bryant used his no-trade clause this week to veto a trade to the Bulls.

Chicago had been adamant they would not tear apart their core and bid against themselves to land Bryant. While Ben Gordon had always been available, the key piece the Lakers coveted was Luol Deng.

Chicago initially would not budge on Deng, but things changed late when extension talks with the Bulls’ forward did not progress as hoped. Briefly the door opened for the Lakers to make a Bryant for Deng and Gordon swap (along with other players to make contracts match).

Multiples sources say Bryant vetoed the deal, preferring to play alongside Deng in Chicago.

 

[Black Adam]

The regular season is an indicator, but doesn't really mean shit once the playoffs start, you can win a crapload of games but playoff basketball is almost a different game (see the Nuggets from last year for an example along with Boston taking the Heat to seven games as a 7 seed I believe from the year before last)...

Yes, I'm a fan of Lebron James...I have no issue admitting that and my posting should make it obvious...I'm a fan of his game and I've also become a fan of the person...Dude's pretty humble if you ask me..Is he a dick? Yes..He's been the chosen one since High School...I'm not going to blame him for acting as such...

Your last sentence sums up everything about your feelings for him though...Having that sort of judgement about a 17 year old kid and holding on to that says a lot about you..

Nice debating with you...

LOL, ok if you say so. sorry, but he put it out there. i do believe HE'S accountable for that, yes...?

what it "says about me" is i have a high aversion to arrogance(LOL @ "humble"). guess that's a GOOD thing...

 

[Black Adam]

He didn't OK the trade because Luol Deng was going to be a part of it:


Hoopsworld: Kobe vetoes trade to Bulls - Laker Nation

A source close to the situation says Bryant used his no-trade clause this week to veto a trade to the Bulls.

Chicago had been adamant they would not tear apart their core and bid against themselves to land Bryant. While Ben Gordon had always been available, the key piece the Lakers coveted was Luol Deng.

Chicago initially would not budge on Deng, but things changed late when extension talks with the Bulls’ forward did not progress as hoped. Briefly the door opened for the Lakers to make a Bryant for Deng and Gordon swap (along with other players to make contracts match).

Multiples sources say Bryant vetoed the deal, preferring to play alongside Deng in Chicago.

this is all well and good, problem is you're missing the point. which was the promise that Dr. Buss said that he'd get better players on the team to help him get championships. and on this Kobe obviously saw that promise wasn't being carried out. now don't get me wrong. like TF12 i'm certainly not a fan of the guy's personality. but i can't fault him for putting the pressure on the FO. hell, you could hear it in his responses to the media that he really didn't want to go. so pull up whatever you like, the FACT is he did what he had to do...

 

[Jims_Doors]

If the Lakers felt the pressure to put players around Kobe and didn't want to lose him, then they wouldn't have even been engaged in trade talks with other teams to begin with.

If you're a player who truly wants to stay with a team, then you don't go to the media and say you want traded. You keep that in house and talk with management about it.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

this is all well and good, problem is you're missing the point. which was the promise that Dr. Buss said that he'd get better players on the team to help him get championships. and on this Kobe obviously saw that promise wasn't being carried out. now don't get me wrong. like TF12 i'm certainly not a fan of the guy's personality. but i can't fault him for putting the pressure on the FO. hell, you could hear it in his responses to the media that he really didn't want to go. so pull up whatever you like




,

the FACT is he did what he had to do...

You mean like James did?

 

[Black Adam]

You mean like James did?

as it turns out, not at ALL like "James did"...

 

[trojanfan12]

If the Lakers felt the pressure to put players around Kobe and didn't want to lose him, then they wouldn't have even been engaged in trade talks with other teams to begin with.

Disagree!! Being involved in/listening to trade talks, regardless of how badly you may want to keep a player is just sound business. If the Lakers didn't listen to trade offers and just decided to let Kobe play out his contract, they would have been faced with either losing him in FA and getting nothing back or doing what was done with Shaq and trading him away without getting anything close to fair value.


If you're a player who truly wants to stay with a team, then you don't go to the media and say you want traded. You keep that in house and talk with management about it.

You'd think so, but that just isn't how it's done these days!! For better or worse and whether we like it or not, just about every player in every sport that wants an improved roster, goes to the media with it!! You act like Kobe is the only player to ever do this!!

 

[Black Adam]

If the Lakers felt the pressure to put players around Kobe and didn't want to lose him, then they wouldn't have even been engaged in trade talks with other teams to begin with.

do tell me how you KNOW that? you have relations in the Lakers FO or what...?

If you're a player who truly wants to stay with a team, then you don't go to the media and say you want traded. You keep that in house and talk with management about it.

UNLESS he had already done that and didn't get the response he wanted. once again, who knows? FACT is he ended up getting Gasol AND Ariza because management responded. bottom line he got what he wanted...

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

as it turns out, not at ALL like "James did"...

Exactly like James did. Both made sure they would be in a situation where it would be possible to succeed.

 

[Black Adam]

Exactly like James did. Both made sure they would be in a situation where it would be possible to succeed.

last week of FA, TV special? quitting in a playoff game? try again...

 

[Jims_Doors]

Disagree!! Being involved in/listening to trade talks, regardless of how badly
you may want to keep a player is just sound business. If the Lakers didn't
listen to trade offers and just decided to let Kobe play out his contract, they
would have been faced with either losing him in FA and getting nothing back or
doing what was done with Shaq and trading him away without getting anything
close to fair value.

But we're talking 2007 here. Kobe was under contract / didn't sign another deal until after the 2009 season. It's not like he was a UFA after the 2008 season and LA had to make a decision.

You'd think so, but that just isn't how it's done these days!! For better or worse and whether we like it or not, just about every player in every sport that wants an improved roster, goes to the media with it!! You act like Kobe is the only player to ever do this!![/QUOTE]

But when people say how dedicated, loyal and true he is to the Lakers....it's a false statement. Players who are, don't go to the media and say they want traded. It makes it looks even worse when you're only coming off a couple down seasons. It's not like he didn't win 3 titles in a row and played for a garbage team his whole career.

 

[Black Adam]

But we're talking 2007 here. Kobe was under contract / didn't sign another deal until after the 2009 season. It's not like he was a UFA after the 2008 season and LA had to make a decision.

You'd think so, but that just isn't how it's done these days!! For better or worse and whether we like it or not, just about every player in every sport that wants an improved roster, goes to the media with it!! You act like Kobe is the only player to ever do this!![/QUOTE]

But when people say how dedicated, loyal and true he is to the Lakers....it's a false statement. Players who are, don't go to the media and say they want traded. It makes it looks even worse when you're only coming off a couple down seasons. It's not like he didn't win 3 titles in a row and played for a garbage team his whole career.

problem with this statement is we don't know what was said behind closed doors(like i alluded to earlier). maybe talking to the media was the only option he had left. who knows...?

 

[Jims_Doors]

last week of FA, TV special? quitting in a playoff game? try again...

??? When's the last week of free agency?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

But we're talking 2007 here. Kobe was under contract / didn't sign another deal until after the 2009 season. It's not like he was a UFA after the 2008 season and LA had to make a decision.







problem with this statement is we don't know what was said behind closed doors(like i alluded to earlier). maybe talking to the media was the only option he had left. who knows...?

But you know what James said to the Cavs behind closed doors?

As far as your last week of FA bullshit, what are you talking about?

F.A. period always starts July 1, and James started meeting with all the teams at that point.
He also told them all exactly when he would announce his decision.