Why do fans of fast paced offenses whine when defenses...

[4down20]

Here's another block with the shoulder leading, it's just like the Murray hit. Some incidental helmet contact, but he is leading with the shoulder and hitting in the shoulder area. Legal hit.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17waZsWdYQA]Best Block Ever? Kenny Bell Block, Nebraska vs Wisconsin Big 10 Championship - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Edisto_Tiger]

That hit on Murray was H2H.

 

[Olyduck]

ummm, not to get off topic but we averaged 85 plays a game last year. Oregon 82, Okie State 79, A&M 83.
The only teams that averaged more plays per game than the Tigers were Marshall with 93 and La Tech with 88. We were THE up tempo, pace pressing Offense in college football last year.

And Clemson had just 2 drives at 16 a couple at 14 and the rest all less

 

[JDM]

Yet another person who doesn't understand the real benefit of the no huddle offense. I've explained this a bunch of times and I'm getting rather tired of having to explain it.

Alabama could run the same exact pace they have now, run no huddle the entire time, and the other teams defense would have no chance to substitute. You don't have to run hurry up to run no huddle and we seen this happen over and over last year as the team gets to the line then decides it wants to change formations and so on. All an offense has to do is go to the line after a play and that prevents the defense from substituting, no hurry up is required.

Alabama has not had trouble with a hurry up offense. And that's another thing I'm sick of hearing. We lose 1 single game to A&M, while beating multiple other hurry up offenses and suddenly that has to be the reason? Even though the overwhelming majority of the points came in the 1st period, somehow Alabama wasn't in shape? Stupid, get a clue.

I don't care about any of your teams. I watch college for any good game.

I think the rules for hurry up should be left alone. I could see some logic in the concept of having a max play clock left that possibly subtracts time off the play clock when they get to the line. But they should still have at least 15-20 seconds to get ready. It is perfectly ok to put stress on the defense by forcing them to be ready for a few seconds while keeping your pace up, and to have time to make adjustments. Not giving the defense the ability to substitute is a perfectly acceptable part of the no huddle in my opinion. If they get mismatches and can keep them, or your team can't keep up, then they have you beat and have every right to take advantage of it.

 

[4down20]

That hit on Murray was H2H.

 

[4down20]

I don't care about any of your teams. I watch college for any good game.

I think the rules for hurry up should be left alone. I could see some logic in the concept of having a max play clock left that possibly subtracts time off the play clock when they get to the line. But they should still have at least 15-20 seconds to get ready. It is perfectly ok to put stress on the defense by forcing them to be ready for a few seconds while keeping your pace up, and to have time to make adjustments. Not giving the defense the ability to substitute is a perfectly acceptable part of the no huddle in my opinion. If they get mismatches and can keep them, or your team can't keep up, then they have you beat and have every right to take advantage of it.

I'd like to see the play clock go down to about 10 seconds once a team gets to the line. That wouldn't mess with actual hurry up mode if teams wanted to run it, but at the same time would prevent teams from just exploiting the no huddle part to force the defense not to substitute.

 

[JDM]

10 isn't enough. I'm not sure 15 is.

 

[4down20]

10 isn't enough. I'm not sure 15 is.

It's more than enough most of the time. I've timed teams doing actual hurry up, 5 seconds is enough much of the time for actual hurry up mode, 10 seconds is plenty. The current play clock is 25 seconds.

Many times they teams are ready before the ref even gets away from the ball. And it would only drop down to 10 seconds once a team lined up. They would still get the full 25 if they needed it.

 

[JDM]

But I think 15 would be better. They are allowed to audible still, and should have time to do so.

 

[Panthera tigris Bob]

Is there a non-Bama fan who thinks the hit on Murray was legit?

If so, speak up...

If not, 4/20 is just making an ass of himself once again...

 

[smilesid]

Most no huddle offenses actually don't run plays as quickly as one might think. Often they come to the line and do audibles or shift formations. The idea is to put pressure on the defense and make it harder for them to substitute. It's a legitimate part of the game. The offense, by controlling the ball and the snap, by definition dictate the pace of the game. Defense are allowed to substitute if the offense does, you know. But they must be ready in case the offense decides to quick snap or go no huddle.

What I'm hearing here is some fans whining. It's a strategy as old as sport. Every team tries to figure out a way to give themselves an advantage. When one plays a team with overwhelming talent like, say, Alabama, the opposing team is going to have to find another way. Speeding up or slowing down the pace, quick no huddle plays followed by long counts designed to force to opponents to hold down positions, and substitution or formation complexity are all ways to overcome a physical disadvantage.

The best football is played with the brain as well as with the brawn. What, is this a problem for some of you?

 

[Edisto_Tiger]

Most no huddle offenses actually don't run plays as quickly as one might think. Often they come to the line and do audibles or shift formations. The idea is to put pressure on the defense and make it harder for them to substitute. It's a legitimate part of the game. The offense, by controlling the ball and the snap, by definition dictate the pace of the game. Defense are allowed to substitute if the offense does, you know. But they must be ready in case the offense decides to quick snap or go no huddle.

What I'm hearing here is some fans whining. It's a strategy as old as sport. Every team tries to figure out a way to give themselves an advantage. When one plays a team with overwhelming talent like, say, Alabama, the opposing team is going to have to find another way. Speeding up or slowing down the pace, quick no huddle plays followed by long counts designed to force to opponents to hold down positions, and substitution or formation complexity are all ways to overcome a physical disadvantage.

The best football is played with the brain as well as with the brawn. What, is this a problem for some of you?

rep.

 

[Ballboy534]

It has almost nothing to do with conditioning. If you think Alabama isn't conditioned, then you are nuts. It's about being able to substitute for the situation at best. I'm so sick of hearing about conditioning as if that is the problem. Alabama vs A&M got scored on early, not late when conditioning becomes an issue.

And yeah, it's not 2008. Alabama is WAY better now if you haven't noticed.

You missed my point; Clemson is much better than '08. I was referencing the opening game in the GA Dome, not slighting your team.

They are, but that doesn't mean you can't have ideal players in for the situation.

When we played A&M it was outside adjustments that got made to stop them. Namely, what I call the "Tebow rule" got put in place. I was shocked it took that damn long for it to happen, but that's the way it went.

The offense has the same exact problem in the HUNH. Really, it's about having the initiative; Saban and Bielema are pissed because OC's have found a way to undermine the defense's ability to take the initiative and they want rules changed to stymie these new found abilities.

Can any of you fans from up tempo offenses understand? It is about the game and how it is played! Officials should not have to speed up their game just because they have up tempo teams on the field. They should have a swift routine of getting the ball in play and teams abide by that. It gives everyone equality that way like I mentioned the NFL does it. Is has nothing to do with conditioning. Refs should not officiate one week one way (with pro style time control offenses) and up temp offenses the next. However, you see the officials changing their game totally and running to get the ball in play when up tempo teams are on the field. That is why there are discussions when a big game has both styles on opposite sides. It almost becomes where the officials are from. If they had one standard that was fast but allowed defenses to substitute, but they needed to be ready to substitute, this would not be an issue and it would be more equitable.

As for Alabama needing more versatile conditioned athletes, they seem to be doing just fine the way they are. 3 out 5 is it? Now this is where some idiot says than why are you complaining?

You see the right answer, yet are either not intelligent enough to reach it or too arrogant to admit you're scared of change.

 

[trojanfan12]

Everyone else is trying to give me shit saying I don't like it because A&M beat us. You on the other hand come in from left field and say that A&M doesn't even count as an up tempo team.

Meanwhile, my complaint isn't even about the tempo to begin with.

You haters are funny.

Uh, no they aren't!! Everyone just disagrees with you that rules should be changed because you don't like a particular style that a team plays!! You keep bringing up 'Bama!!

Of course, it is only 'Bama fans crying about it!!

 

[BamaTee1]

You can defend it anyway you want, but that was a cheap shot and H2H. You know it, I know it, the college football lovin world knows it.

And I love it! When football was football before all the PC world got it's hand wrapped all around it. Watch it change friends, watch it change! In fact Edisto, I bet there was a day you would have said hell yea, QB should be looking. He threw the pick and now he's a defender trying to make the tackle. If the guy cuts back Murray can make the tackle. FTR, it was not H2H! However, it should have been a personal foul based on protecting the QB rules. But the point is wham and football!

 

[BamaTee1]

it only takes 1 play to have an injury. the problem with the high hits and targeting is that these are not fundamentally safe tackles. remember peewee? head up wrap up keep your feet moving? not lower your head hit with the top of your helmet aim at their head/chest and launch yourself at them like a missile

Pretty sure more plays automatically (not debatable) leads to more injuries! You know the old A>B, B>C so A>C formula Not hard to figure!

 

[trojanfan12]

And I love it! When football was football before all the PC world got it's hand wrapped all around it. Watch it change friends, watch it change! In fact Edisto, I bet there was a day you would have said hell yea, QB should be looking. He threw the pick and now he's a defender trying to make the tackle. If the guy cuts back Murray can make the tackle. FTR, it was not H2H! However, it should have been a personal foul based on protecting the QB rules. But the point is wham and football!

 

[BamaTee1]

Uh, no they aren't!! Everyone just disagrees with you that rules should be changed because you don't like a particular style that a team plays!! You keep bringing up 'Bama!!

Of course, it is only 'Bama fans crying about it!!

We have to discuss something during the off season. Don't really think, if absolutely nothing is done, any Bama fan is going to lose any sleep over it, including me. I still think it is unfair and there is a better more consistent approach to this issue but if they don't do anything Bama will be just fine. I already said, you will see Alabama hurry to the line to keep the other team from substituting and just stand there and that's ridiculous but if they're going to allow it you can't let the other teams have the upper hand.

 

[Edisto_Tiger]

And I love it! When football was football before all the PC world got it's hand wrapped all around it. Watch it change friends, watch it change! In fact Edisto, I bet there was a day you would have said hell yea, QB should be looking. He threw the pick and now he's a defender trying to make the tackle. If the guy cuts back Murray can make the tackle. FTR, it was not H2H! However, it should have been a personal foul based on protecting the QB rules. But the point is wham and football!

This I can handle (the truth) and you may be right about me liking it. When you're on the field of play, you better have your head on a swivel. But if we are talking about the rules that exist today, it was a penalty. And it was H2H. You guys kill me with that "he led with his shoulder" stuff.

 

[24seven]

I see the OP's point. Hike!