Who wins NL MVP??

[navamind]

And nobody mentions matt carpenter either... He had an amazing season... but again many are too fixated on the HRs...

I just did. .318/.392/.481 (143 OPS+) is very good, especially coming from 2nd base.

He's not gonna hit a lot of home runs, but he'll hit for average, draw walks and hit plenty of doubles and triples.

 

[navamind]

And I think Bruce and Phillips both had over 100 RBI so its not like the Reds struggled to score runs.

How is Votto going to knock them in? And they had 100+ RBI partly because Votto and Choo (who had two of the highest OBPs in the NL) were constantly on base for them.

Phillips had one of the worst offensive years of his career. Lowest BA, OBP, and SLG%. 2nd lowest OPS+ (88 in 2006). Though it's still not bad coming from 2B.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

What should hurt goldy is the 25 GIDP and 7 CS, that is 32 extra outs that could have been runs... And that is a huge reason i dont have him winning the MVP...

 

[The Derski]

How is Votto going to knock them in? And they had 100+ RBI partly because Votto and Choo (who had two of the highest OBPs in the NL) were constantly on base for them.

Phillips had one of the worst offensive years of his career. Lowest BA, OBP, and SLG%. 2nd lowest OPS+ (88 in 2006). Though it's still not bad coming from 2B.

Votto wasn't pitched around as much as you think. He has a very good eye at the plate and took borderline pitches for balls that he probably could have crushed. He earns his walks more than pitchers give it to him.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I just did. .318/.392/.481 (143 OPS+) is very good, especially coming from 2nd base.

He's not gonna hit a lot of home runs, but he'll hit for average, draw walks and hit plenty of doubles and triples.

But unfortunately the lack of HRs are going to take away his shot to win the MVP... Its funny Baseball still loves the long ball, but the people who hit too mant are constantly accused of steroids... If you want to stop Steroid use then stop rewarding the HR hitters... And give the non HR hitters a shot to win the MVP...

 

[navamind]

Votto wasn't pitched around as much as you think. He has a very good eye at the plate and took borderline pitches for balls that he probably could have crushed. He earns his walks more than pitchers give it to him.

He does have a very good eye. But 19 of his 51 walks with RISP were intentional.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

He does have a very good eye. But 19 of his 51 walks with RISP were intentional.

GOldy also had 19 intentional so not sure if you can mention that point as a negative or a positive...

 

[navamind]

But unfortunately the lack of HRs are going to take away his shot to win the MVP... Its funny Baseball still loves the long ball, but the people who hit too mant are constantly accused of steroids... If you want to stop Steroid use then stop rewarding the HR hitters... And give the non HR hitters a shot to win the MVP...

Thing is, the best players in baseball are usually good HR hitters. I do agree you don't have to hit for power to be elite (look at Wade Boggs and Joe Mauer).

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Thing is, the best players in baseball are usually good HR hitters. I do agree you don't have to hit for power to be elite (look at Wade Boggs and Joe Mauer).

But even you have been using OPS+ to make your argument... OPS by definition is a power stat...

 

[navamind]

GOldy also had 19 intentional so not sure if you can mention that point as a negative or a positive...

This is true. I admit I didn't really look at Goldy's RISP stats until now. They're certainly beastly.

But some unintentional walks are intentional

 

[The Derski]

This is true. I admit I didn't really look at Goldy's RISP stats until now. They're certainly beastly.

Can you give a link? For some reason I cant find it on ESPN or baseball reference?

 

[navamind]

Can you give a link? For some reason I cant find it on ESPN or baseball reference?

Paul Goldschmidt 2013 Batting Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

Scroll down to the "Bases Occupied" section

 

[The Derski]

Paul Goldschmidt 2013 Batting Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

Scroll down to the "Bases Occupied" section

Dang those are insane even with 2 outs. Thanks

 

[DragonfromTO]

And I think Bruce and Phillips both had over 100 RBI so its not like the Reds struggled to score runs.

Don't you think that Votto was a big part of why Phillips knocked in 100 runs? Not just directly knocking Votto in but also not making outs with other men on base and giving Phillips his opportunities.

 

[The Derski]

Don't you think that Votto was a big part of why Phillips knocked in 100 runs? Not just directly knocking Votto in but also not making outs with other men on base and giving Phillips his opportunities.

Yes I do. The point I was making is the reds don't struggle to score even without Votto driving in all the runs.

 

[Wazmankg]

McCutchen. Unless you're head and shoulders above the competition you have to have played on a contender.... unless you disagree with that criteria. But that's generally the way this shakes out. And what's with this argument about 1B being more difficult/important fielding position than CF ? Come on folks.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

McCutchen. Unless you're head and shoulders above the competition you have to have played on a contender.... unless you disagree with that criteria. But that's generally the way this shakes out. And what's with this argument about 1B being more difficult/important fielding position than CF ? Come on folks.

Well, votto and carpenter made the playoffs too...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Just to throw in a curve ball... based on espn numbers-

taking RC27, WAR, and Runs+RBIs-HRs

Votto- 8.07,6.4,150
Goldy- 7.40,7.0,192
McCutchen-7.54,8.2,160

Each player leads in one category...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

The top 3 NL MVP players are clearly Goldshmidt, McCutchen and Votto...

Quick analysis of the 3 players to why they should win vs why they should not win

Paul Goldshmidt:
Reasons for:
1.lead the NL in HRs
2. Lead in (Runs+ RBIs- HRs)
3. lead in OPS and Slugging
Reasons against:
1. Did not make the playoffs
2. had 25 GIDP and 7 CS= 32 extra outs that could have been runs

Joey Votto: Reasons for

1. 162 games
2. Made the playoffs
3. 137 walks- Lead NL in OBP
4. Lead the NL in RC27
Reasons against
1. Very low (R+RBI-HR)
2. Down season compared to previous seasons

Andrew McCutchen: Reasons for

1. Made the playoffs- Best player for Pittsburgh(media darlings of 2013)
2. Lead the NL in WAR
3. Played a good CF(reason his WAR is so high)

Reasons against:
1. He did not lead the NL in any non sabremetric stat(only WAR)
2. Played only 157 games(less than the other 2 players)

 

[da55bums]

2. Played only 157 games(less than the other 2 players)

that was a little funny