Who Needed Who? (Brady/Belichick/Bucs/Pats Discussion)

[Battlelyon]

All of sudden people are rescinding their Belichick is the goat coach statements.

 

[Broncoballs]

BB needs to prove himself? Think he could retire today and be considered best ever HC.

I give it to Gibbs. How many coaches won it with 2 different starting QBs, let alone 3 like Gibbs? None of which are in the Hall of Fame? Parcells did it with two.

What am I missing?

 

[molsaniceman]

All of sudden people are rescinding their Belichick is the goat coach statements.

probabbly the same ones that called brady a system QB who couldnt win without BB

 

[Clayton]

Jimmy Crappollo isn't the answer either

He is 24-7 in his career. He isn't Tom Brady by any stretch of the imagination but I think the Patriots could've worked with him.

The reality is that the Patriots need more than a QB right now. Brady was kinda bad last year with the Patriots. They need some actual top 20 talent which is something they just don't get.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

He is 24-7 in his career. He isn't Tom Brady by any stretch of the imagination but I think the Patriots could've worked with him.

The reality is that the Patriots need more than a QB right now. Brady was kinda bad last year with the Patriots. They need some actual top 20 talent which is something they just don't get.

They are positioning to improve next off season with cap space and draft picks. We'll see how that works out.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Former Patriots Star Has A Blunt Message For Bill Belichick

Former Patriots cornerback Asante Samuel has a blunt message for Bill Belichick and the way he manages the roster.

thespun.com

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I give it to Gibbs. How many coaches won it with 2 different starting QBs, let alone 3 like Gibbs? None of which are in the Hall of Fame? Parcells did it with two.

What am I missing?

Underrated from the perspective of a true leader of men in my book. But of course I am a homer. And Gibbs, part 1, did have the advantage of Jack Kent Cooke and the luxury of unlimited caps.

Still... 3 QBS... shows the importance of the trenches and our HOGS at Oline.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Underrated from the perspective of a true leader of men in my book. But of course I am a homer. And Gibbs, part 1, did have the advantage of Jack Kent Cooke and the luxury of unlimited caps.

Still... 3 QBS... shows the importance of the trenches and our HOGS at Oline.

HOGS at OLINE.....

Huge offensive guard stuff?
High obnoxious guys stiffing?
Hmmm Oh God Sackers?

...

Eh I'm going nowhere with this.....

WAIT!

HITTING ORDEAL GOLF SHOTS!

OMG. Ya know at this point I'm just going to retire my account, because I feel it makes everyone on the Internet feel better.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Huge offensive guard stuff?

This actually fits! LOL

Oh...and unlike many of the fitting names mentioned in the Hall of Fame of Coaches...Gibbs went on to a second dominant career in NASCAR and is still at it, winning championships.

Just proves the point. Leader of men.

 

[sonnyblack65]

This actually fits! LOL

Oh...and unlike many of the fitting names mentioned in the Hall of Fame of Coaches...Gibbs went on to a second dominant career in NASCAR and is still at it, winning championships.

Just proves the point. Leader of men.

I concur and that why I have him and Belichick as #6 and #7

 

[dtgold88]

They traded for Cooks in 2017, but outside of that, they've had a lot of draft capital but just haven't made very good selections. They lost their 2016 1st rounder because of cheating, and then traded back this past year out of the first round. They've had 9 1st round selections since 2010, it's not like they completely mortgaged their future by trying to "win now".

Exactly...this isn't the NBA where almost a must to have a high 1st rounder to succeed in draft (yes, I realize you can hit in teens or later). NFL teams often hit in rounds 2-4 or even later.

 

[Dude]

Wrong thread delete and I'll delete

Thanks Sonny. Done. It was meant for game thread

 

[Dude]

It is looking like Brady was the true field leader, although they did make a great duo for 20 years. Easier said than done.

 

[returnofjakedog]

My take is that a good QB and personal can pull out games despite poor coaching more consistently than a good coach can win with a poor QB.
Just because NE is struggling now doesn't take away from the years of winning that Bellicheck brought NE with his coaching system and winning culture he established.
That being said, NE and BB will be hard pressed to reach the top again unless he can find a good QB. Newton is far to inconsistent to be the answer.

 

[TP76]

Team needs a massive rebuild... look for a fire sale before Tuesday's trade deadine

 

[Broncoballs]

Underrated from the perspective of a true leader of men in my book. But of course I am a homer. And Gibbs, part 1, did have the advantage of Jack Kent Cooke and the luxury of unlimited caps.

Still... 3 QBS... shows the importance of the trenches and our HOGS at Oline.

I know many like the HARD cap, but I don't. I have come to despise it. With the hard cap, it is literally a fallacy to "rebuild" a team. If you have a successful draft where 4 out of 7 drafted turn out to be productive, need to get rid of 2 of them in 3 years.

Doesn't make sense. Even if you have a "franchise QB," what does it mean? Let's review shall we?

Aaron Rodgers hasn't been to a SB let alone win it since 2010. Happens to be they had the 2nd rated defense (PPG) that year giving up 15 ppg. They had to pay Rodgers huge money, their defense has not been in the top 10 since. Have not been back to the SB.

Drew Brees had 3 consecutive seasons where he passed for 5000 yards and they went 7 and 9 in each of those seasons. Had some of the worst defenses ever, but his salary broke their bank.

There have been 13 times where a QB passed over 5000 yards, and none of them won the SB that year.

No QB has ever had 600 pass attempts and the won the SB that year.

Let me give a list of WRs who have been the most productive over the last 20 years or so in this HARD CAP era.

Terrell Owens
Randy Moss
Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Firzgerald
Deandre Hopkins
Odell Beckham
Antonio Brown
Michael Thomas


Not one of them have a ring.


All of that is to say Tom Brady went 10 years from 2004 to 2014 without a ring. It was during tbat time he put his best stats. He probably had his best weapons with Moss etc.

In his first 4 seasons he was 10 and 0 in the playoffs with 3 rings. None of the years he WON IT did he pass for 4000 yards or 30 Tds. In those next 10 years he was 8 and 8 in the playoffs, no rings.

All of a sudden he gets paid big, the Pats get rid of a plethora of defensive guys, starting with Milloy, Ty Law, Richard Seymour, among others. During that span from 2004 to 2014 were there worst statistical defenses.

All of a sudden Brady structures his contract where he was the 17th highest paid QB. They go out in 2014 and sign defensive guys like Revis etc. Have their first top 10 ranked defense in years. They win it on a defensive play and his last SB they win 13 to 3.


There is my short little book. Those are some facts. Make of it what you will..

 

[gohusk]

 

[Dude]

Great R&R band for the era. Who doesn’t love some AC DC

 

[Dude]

This probably will be, and should not, an ever ending discussion. They were the magic Duo for 20 years. As we all know, stability in QB position is paramount for success in those Coach-QB relationships.

 

[Broncoballs]

How in the world did Foles lead the Eagles to a SB win?