Belichick and Coaching Records

[BigKen]

I have to withdraw my choice of Leonard after watching him against Notre Dame. Duke played well and lost 24-21 but He looked like a deer in the headlights on a lot of the plays.

Not really sure who or what will be available come April 2024.

Tom Curran was joking and mentioned Garapollo. No thank you. I'd prefer a QB who could play 17 games. Tom Giles thinks that Justin Fields will be available. I'm not convinced there either.

 

[nefansince75]

Cleveland was a decent team and was going to the playoffs recently. They had a shit team the year before but he failed. I'm sorry but don't think he is a good coach and a worst GM. He is a narcissst who relies on his shitty friends too much, and they are all jerkoffs. Show me your friends and I'll show you you

I wasn't questioning your opinion of BB. I've said it before and say it again: It's a valid opinion even if I don't share it. My reply was just stating using Gibbs IN YOUR EXAMPLE wasn't proper since the QB didn't have the same value as for other times and almost all teams now.

 

[Southieinnc]

Let's be honest with ourselves.

1. Bill Belichick values players differently than other GMs. (Please notice I said GMs)
2. BB's value system places defensive players higher than offensive players. His teams have always been top rated defensively.
3. BB's value system for defense has generally allowed him to select good to outstanding offensive linemen.
4. BB has been very good at selecting unknown, very good RBs. (He tends to lean toward Georgia)
5. With the exception of one Tom Brady, his selection of QBs has sucked
6. He's selected a very few rare Good WRs.

That brings us to the present day. The Patriots have a decent defense even with the injuries of late.

BB's value system does not work for the offense and because of it, the offensive line has gone from serviceable to putrid.
The WRs which have always been mediocre are now the worst in the NFL.

The starting QB was good in year one. He had an OC that could talk to him and explain his faults without making him feel like a dunce and make him confident that he could succeed. Year two gave him a complete nightmare which can only be directed to the GM/HC who for some God forsaken reason placed two people who'd never even seen an offensive playbook, full charge of the Patriots' offense. Mac Jones weaknesses were slammed in his face like he'd never seen or felt in his entire life. That and the HC sided with the rectal orfices he put in charge. Year three the GM/HC brings in another old friend who tries to build a comfort zone around a fractured phsychy and ego. The brain damage is unrepairable and the fact that he doesn't have the mechanical tools to overcome his frail ego, has now placed the QB in the crosshairs of every opponent.

Was this the plan? Was Bill pissed because Josh was able to get the kid to perform above all expectations and make the playoffs in his first year?
Was bringing in Patricia and Judge to do what they did part of the BB plan to destroy the kid? Was totally screwing up a functioning team part of some incredible plan that BB actually thought would somehow do a complete 180 when BOB took over the offense?

The BIGGEST PROBLEM with the Patriots' is Bill Belichick GM. I believe that the man is the greatest defensive mind ever to step foot on a football field. I believe that he was a great head coach when he an extraordinary QB running the offense so he could put 85% of his effort into the defense. That time has gone. The incredible number of problems on both sides of the ball has completely overwhelmed the man. Instead of telling Kraft that he can't keep up with all of the player personnel problems and the coaching problems, he smart mouths the media and acts like he has everything under control.

Bill Belichick has failed to recognize that the toilet has been flushed and that he and the New England Patriots are beginning that swirl that will eventually become a complete flush to the sewer.

Can you repeat that?

 

[cheerupcharlie]

That's fair enough. Few questions:

1) How did we get here?
2) Did BB simply undervalue the position during the draft and FA?
3) Would Dante be able to fix it?

I really can’t explain why our o-line can’t get the job done. Belichick does not draft many Big Boys to play up front. Since 2000 he’s drafted 10 O-lineman in the first 3 rounds. That’s less than 1 every 2 years.(or close too).
For him to be so knowledgeable about football, everyone knows games are won in the trenches, yet he just doesn’t address it like he does defensive players.

Dante was fantastic. But this group of sub par players would be quite a challenge.

 

[Dude]

Let's be honest with ourselves.

1. Bill Belichick values players differently than other GMs. (Please notice I said GMs)
2. BB's value system places defensive players higher than offensive players. His teams have always been top rated defensively.
3. BB's value system for defense has generally allowed him to select good to outstanding offensive linemen.
4. BB has been very good at selecting unknown, very good RBs. (He tends to lean toward Georgia)
5. With the exception of one Tom Brady, his selection of QBs has sucked
6. He's selected a very few rare Good WRs.

That brings us to the present day. The Patriots have a decent defense even with the injuries of late.

BB's value system does not work for the offense and because of it, the offensive line has gone from serviceable to putrid.
The WRs which have always been mediocre are now the worst in the NFL.

The starting QB was good in year one. He had an OC that could talk to him and explain his faults without making him feel like a dunce and make him confident that he could succeed. Year two gave him a complete nightmare which can only be directed to the GM/HC who for some God forsaken reason placed two people who'd never even seen an offensive playbook, full charge of the Patriots' offense. Mac Jones weaknesses were slammed in his face like he'd never seen or felt in his entire life. That and the HC sided with the rectal orfices he put in charge. Year three the GM/HC brings in another old friend who tries to build a comfort zone around a fractured phsychy and ego. The brain damage is unrepairable and the fact that he doesn't have the mechanical tools to overcome his frail ego, has now placed the QB in the crosshairs of every opponent.

Was this the plan? Was Bill pissed because Josh was able to get the kid to perform above all expectations and make the playoffs in his first year?
Was bringing in Patricia and Judge to do what they did part of the BB plan to destroy the kid? Was totally screwing up a functioning team part of some incredible plan that BB actually thought would somehow do a complete 180 when BOB took over the offense?

The BIGGEST PROBLEM with the Patriots' is Bill Belichick GM. I believe that the man is the greatest defensive mind ever to step foot on a football field. I believe that he was a great head coach when he an extraordinary QB running the offense so he could put 85% of his effort into the defense. That time has gone. The incredible number of problems on both sides of the ball has completely overwhelmed the man. Instead of telling Kraft that he can't keep up with all of the player personnel problems and the coaching problems, he smart mouths the media and acts like he has everything under control.

Bill Belichick has failed to recognize that the toilet has been flushed and that he and the New England Patriots are beginning that swirl that will eventually become a complete flush to the sewer.

Interesting. I’ll say one thing, many need to get over all the drama. Many will say Brady was the savior of the Pats and ignore the chemistry that existed between HC & QB. Generational, maybe 5 teams can say they had that. Add great coaches, etc. That does not happen very often. Glad I was around to watch it.

And many ignore the fact that Kraft, hiring Parcells a long time ago with BB as D coordinator to turn the team around and point it in the right direction. That’s all insignificant I suppose from some comments in here.

 

[nefansince75]

Interesting. I’ll say one thing, many need to get over all the drama. Many will say Brady was the savior of the Pats and ignore the chemistry that existed between HC & QB. Generational, maybe 5 teams can say they had that. Add great coaches, etc. That does not happen very often. Glad I was around to watch it.

And many ignore the fact that Kraft, hiring Parcells a long time ago with BB as D coordinator to turn the team around and point it in the right direction. That’s all insignificant I suppose from some comments in here.

BB was coaching in Cleveland when BP was hired. BB joined the staff for 1 year before BP protested for not being allowed to buy the groceries. The BB and BP left for the Jets.

 

[redseat]

If we had the #1 pick it's hard to imagine NOT picking a QB with it. To pull a page out of BK's playbook, Kraft would fuck BB in the ass with that pick if it wasn't a QB.

Well he hasn't really done that lately so who knows what Kraft would do... But I really think BB would trade the # 1 pick

 

[Dude]

BB was coaching in Cleveland when BP was hired. BB joined the staff for 1 year before BP protested for not being allowed to buy the groceries. The BB and BP left for the Jets.

Thanks for the detail but you missed the point. Which coach righted the ship? Who drafted Brady?

 

[Yankee Traveler]

1. Bill Belichick values players differently than other GMs. (Please notice I said GMs)

I don't 100% buy this, but there may be some truth to it. I think he inherited a team put together by Pete Carrol and Bill Parcells that allowed him to draft best available rather than drafting for need. He has also made some really shrewd trades that I believe other GM's are less willing to work with him as he came out on top so often early in his career.

2. BB's value system places defensive players higher than offensive players. His teams have always been top rated defensively.

Pats vs Eagles 2 and Pats vs Rams 2. Most yards/points and least...Offensives vs defenses, You can win with two field goals if you can keep you opponent from scoring more than one. Or you need to score 45 points if you can't keep your opponent from scoring 44.

3. BB's value system for defense has generally allowed him to select good to outstanding offensive linemen.

Scar's input?

4. BB has been very good at selecting unknown, very good RBs. (He tends to lean toward Georgia)

Yup

5. With the exception of one Tom Brady, his selection of QBs has sucked

Whoa....Slow your roll big fella.
Kliff Kingsbury - Better coach than gunslinger but proven smart. Like Fuckin Smaht.
Matt Cassell - 2008 plus 4 year starter for the Chiefs, plus Vikings, Bills Cowboys
Brian Hoyer - Undrafted but starter for how many teams? Still in the league.
Ryan Mallett - Starter.
Jimmy G - Took teams to SB...
Jacoby Brissett - Multi Team Starter

All these guy were signed WHILE NOT NEEDING a QB in the second third fourth fifth sixth seventh rounds and even after the draft party was done.

Jones is in a different category because he was drafted when Bill absolutely needed a QB but was behind the 8 ball with 5 other teams needing a QB badly as well. I think Jones is just one of those that his decision making in College was great against college defenders when he had time behind a great college line allowed him to perform at his absolute best. His weaker arm cannot make up for a ok line and ok receivers when defenses know he has a weaker arm and stack the box and rush him. He gets flustered and his decision making plummets quickly.

6. He's selected a very few rare Good WRs.

Yes, we know, for every Branch, Edelman, Douglas (?!!) there is a Harry. But how many Diva WR's actually make a difference in a Super Bowl?
We had randy Moss. Julien Edelman won a SB MVP.
Cooper Cupp, another SB MVP, third round pick.
Hines Ward, 3rd rd.

That brings us to the present day. The Patriots have a decent defense even with the injuries of late.

BB's value system does not work for the offense and because of it, the offensive line has gone from serviceable to putrid.

Injuries too...

The WRs which have always been mediocre are now the worst in the NFL.

Made worse by horrible QB play. Defenses do not fear anything deep. At all. It turns every down into a red zone play.

The starting QB was good in year one. He had an OC that could talk to him and explain his faults without making him feel like a dunce and make him confident that he could succeed. Year two gave him a complete nightmare which can only be directed to the GM/HC who for some God forsaken reason placed two people who'd never even seen an offensive playbook, full charge of the Patriots' offense. Mac Jones weaknesses were slammed in his face like he'd never seen or felt in his entire life. That and the HC sided with the rectal orfices he put in charge. Year three the GM/HC brings in another old friend who tries to build a comfort zone around a fractured phsychy and ego. The brain damage is unrepairable and the fact that he doesn't have the mechanical tools to overcome his frail ego, has now placed the QB in the crosshairs of every opponent.

The worst trait a professional athlete can have.

Was this the plan? Was Bill pissed because Josh was able to get the kid to perform above all expectations and make the playoffs in his first year?
Was bringing in Patricia and Judge to do what they did part of the BB plan to destroy the kid? Was totally screwing up a functioning team part of some incredible plan that BB actually thought would somehow do a complete 180 when BOB took over the offense?

The BIGGEST PROBLEM with the Patriots' is Bill Belichick GM. I believe that the man is the greatest defensive mind ever to step foot on a football field. I believe that he was a great head coach when he an extraordinary QB running the offense so he could put 85% of his effort into the defense. That time has gone. The incredible number of problems on both sides of the ball has completely overwhelmed the man. Instead of telling Kraft that he can't keep up with all of the player personnel problems and the coaching problems, he smart mouths the media and acts like he has everything under control.

Bill Belichick has failed to recognize that the toilet has been flushed and that he and the New England Patriots are beginning that swirl that will eventually become a complete flush to the sewer.

Bill made himself a shit sandwich with bacon when he played the cap space odds and built teams on borrowed money to win the SB. Again and again.
Man, that bacon tasted GOOD. MMmmm Mm!!
That after bite of shit tastes like shit though.

We get past jones and get a QB that can throw a ball and keep defenses honest, I believe all the good of this team will come out.

 

[nefansince75]

Thanks for the detail but you missed the point. Which coach righted the ship? Who drafted Brady?

I didn't miss your point at all. I just filled in some details.

 

[BigKen]

It's an argument that neither side can win. You have those that believe BB will somehow wave his magic wand and bring back the Glory Years. You have others, myself included, that see him look frustrated, upset and defeated on the sidelines and know that it's time to move on.

You buy a house that was built in 1953. It needs a new roof, upgraded elctrcity,upgraded plumbing. You know that it also needs new windows and better insulation. You paid $300,000 for the house and hold a $250,000 mortgage. You have $50,000. to work with in the bank. What do you take on first? $20K for the roof, $8K for the electrical, $20K for plumbing and modernization of the bathrooms. The wife wants a new kitchen. The wind is blowing through the windows. Screw the roof. I'll give the wife the new kitchen. Screw the new bathrooms, I'll put new triple pane Pellas.
Get my drift????? BB has a limited amount of money and he's let the house fall to shambles. He's throwing rubber patches on the roof, throwing plastic over the windows and trying figure out how to get rid of black iron sewer pipe to the sewer system with $5000 in the bank.

There are just too many problems that he chose to ignore (WR,OL) and now the defense has multiple injuries and there's nothing in the workshop or any money in the bank. Is the answer readily available? No. some answers might be before the trade deadline. BB is not a gambler with his draft picks. He must feel that what he is getting in return will either provide him with immediate relief or solve multiple problems in the immediate future.
Problem is that everyone else knows the problems and to get anything from them will cost more than a dollar for a dollar and that price is too painful for him.

The next fourteen weeks are going to get more and more painful as the bumps and bruises pile up. I've made a deal with myself that I'm going to try to be as level-headed as possible. This week's injury list has 13 guys with various injuries and have had limited practice. We've lost two of the best defenders for the remainder of the year. I know it's going to be plug, medicate and patch going forward, I'm trying to resign myself to the facts as they are before me and there is very little that can be done to change the path that the Patriots are on today.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

It's an argument that neither side can win. You have those that believe BB will somehow wave his magic wand and bring back the Glory Years. You have others, myself included, that see him look frustrated, upset and defeated on the sidelines and know that it's time to move on.

You buy a house that was built in 1953. It needs a new roof, upgraded elctrcity,upgraded plumbing. You know that it also needs new windows and better insulation. You paid $300,000 for the house and hold a $250,000 mortgage. You have $50,000. to work with in the bank. What do you take on first? $20K for the roof, $8K for the electrical, $20K for plumbing and modernization of the bathrooms. The wife wants a new kitchen. The wind is blowing through the windows. Screw the roof. I'll give the wife the new kitchen. Screw the new bathrooms, I'll put new triple pane Pellas.
Get my drift????? BB has a limited amount of money and he's let the house fall to shambles. He's throwing rubber patches on the roof, throwing plastic over the windows and trying figure out how to get rid of black iron sewer pipe to the sewer system with $5000 in the bank.

There are just too many problems that he chose to ignore (WR,OL) and now the defense has multiple injuries and there's nothing in the workshop or any money in the bank. Is the answer readily available? No. some answers might be before the trade deadline. BB is not a gambler with his draft picks. He must feel that what he is getting in return will either provide him with immediate relief or solve multiple problems in the immediate future.
Problem is that everyone else knows the problems and to get anything from them will cost more than a dollar for a dollar and that price is too painful for him.

The next fourteen weeks are going to get more and more painful as the bumps and bruises pile up. I've made a deal with myself that I'm going to try to be as level-headed as possible. This week's injury list has 13 guys with various injuries and have had limited practice. We've lost two of the best defenders for the remainder of the year. I know it's going to be plug, medicate and patch going forward, I'm trying to resign myself to the facts as they are before me and there is very little that can be done to change the path that the Patriots are on today.

There's no magic wand.
It's coaching judging talent and managing the cap.

First thing that will be said Bill can't judge talent, he brought in WR's that can't get separation. I give you Jonnu Smith.
Good before he got here, good after he left, but liked it here. Tells me, Bill coached good, but Mac couldn't get him the ball.

Vinyl frame windows or fiberglass? Really doesn't matter if the foundation of the house is no good.

 

[BigKen]

I heard a weird thing brought up this afternoon on a program I taped last night.

The guy said that this downward spiral started with Gronkowski leaving. The Patriots had no TEs. He said, "Bill waited too late in the draft before taking Dalton and Asiasi. They were such failures that he went all in on Henry and Jonnu, and panicked and way overpaid Agholor. Henry has been the only good thing that resulted." Then he said, "Early in his Patriots' career, Bill would take two or three years before doing anything after making such horrific mistakes, analyzing himself and why he did it. A dramatically changing league, age, and pressure from every direction makes any coach do things that he would never do." His final comment was, "Bill's biggest problem is that he can no longer treat others like a piece of toilet paper on the heel of his shoe. He's not winning games or championships and those people will not let him kick them around anymore. It also affects the owner." Note...I'm trying as best I can to quote the guy. I can't guarantee that it's exactly the words he said.