Who Needed Who? (Brady/Belichick/Bucs/Pats Discussion)

[Yo Tee]

From the start of the season, there was always going to be comparisons between the Patriots and the Buccaneers just because of TB12 Version 2. Does the Bucs success and the Patriots lack thereof show that it was Belichick who needed Brady all along and not Brady who needed Belichick? Or is this struggle from New England chalked up to poor QB play or lack of roster depth or something else?

Interested to hear what you guys and gals think!

 

[ericd7633]

I think you have to reserve judgement for this season because of everything that's going on. Nobody was hit harder by players opting out than the Pats were. And outside of the Titans they've been hit the hardest during the season, even having to play without their starting QB for a week.

With that said, the Pats roster has a lot of holes in it because of poor drafting. Brady made the right decision to leave.

 

[Debbie Does]

The Patriots sold out last year to maybe win one more championship. It was not to be. Sure, they won the division easily, but couldn't get past the first round of the playoffs. Brady couldn't carry an aging, injured team alone.

Ariens is a good coach, too, and Tampa has a better overall team. Brady doesn't have to do it all. With Covid, he doesn't even have to sell hot dogs in the stands or beer at half time.

Belichick doesn't have a quarterback. Newton is and always has been a clown, a joke and an injury waiting to happen.

 

[Yo Tee]

The Patriots sold out last year to maybe win one more championship. It was not to be. Sure, they won the division easily, but couldn't get past the first round of the playoffs. Brady couldn't carry an aging, injured team alone.

Ariens is a good coach, too, and Tampa has a better overall team. Brady doesn't have to do it all. With Covid, he doesn't even have to sell hot dogs in the stands or beer at half time.

Belichick doesn't have a quarterback. Newton is and always has been a clown, a joke and an injury waiting to happen.

I've always said that 2015 was a fluke year and not just for the Panthers but for Cam as well. He's never been accurate and he's always been injury prone. With that said, however, I don't think the Patriots would be better right now if they went with Stidham. I think they would be worse off with Stidham as the QB right now. I think they went with what they thought was their best option to stay competitive which I can't fault them for but nothing was going to replace Brady and I think they knew that, but they wanted to preserve the dynasty talk for another year before they burn it all down and start a new.

Which begs this question, how long before Belichick retires?

 

[Yo Tee]

I think you have to reserve judgement for this season because of everything that's going on. Nobody was hit harder by players opting out than the Pats were. And outside of the Titans they've been hit the hardest during the season, even having to play without their starting QB for a week.

With that said, the Pats roster has a lot of holes in it because of poor drafting. Brady made the right decision to leave.

Poor drafting because they've been winning all these titles and trading their draft picks away to win now instead of in the future. Now that future has come and the Patriots are getting fucked by it lol. Brady and the Carolina Panthers are the smartest two entities in this situation right now.

 

[Clayton]

I think you have to reserve judgement for this season because of everything that's going on. Nobody was hit harder by players opting out than the Pats were. And outside of the Titans they've been hit the hardest during the season, even having to play without their starting QB for a week.

With that said, the Pats roster has a lot of holes in it because of poor drafting. Brady made the right decision to leave.

I don't know if I blame the Patriots too much for poor drafting. They just didn't draft well enough based around the idea that Brady would still be playing. The 'Patriots way' would've been going with Jimmy Garoppolo and they sacrificed what they normally do to try and duct tape together a couple of Super Bowl runs.

I do think Sony Michel getting drafted right ahead of Lamar Jackson, Nick Chubb, Courtland Sutton and Darius Leonard was something that sets you back a few years. I also don't think Michel was viewed as better as some of those guys going into the draft imo.

N'keal Harry busting is just the nature of WRs. More than any other position you're throwing darts there. I feel like most teams would've drafted him and many analysts thought the Patriots made a fantastic pick.

The opting out thing hurt the Patriots a lot, though. At the end of the day its just football so I kinda get it. The Chiefs oline could certainly use its player that opted out, too. This was a good year for the Patriots to pack it in. They just should've done so from the start so they could tank for a QB.

 

[ericd7633]

I don't know if I blame the Patriots too much for poor drafting. They just didn't draft well enough based around the idea that Brady would still be playing. The 'Patriots way' would've been going with Jimmy Garoppolo and they sacrificed what they normally do to try and duct tape together a couple of Super Bowl runs.

I do think Sony Michel getting drafted right ahead of Lamar Jackson, Nick Chubb, Courtland Sutton and Darius Leonard was something that sets you back a few years. I also don't think Michel was viewed as better as some of those guys going into the draft imo.

N'keal Harry busting is just the nature of WRs. More than any other position you're throwing darts there. I feel like most teams would've drafted him and many analysts thought the Patriots made a fantastic pick.

The opting out thing hurt the Patriots a lot, though. At the end of the day its just football so I kinda get it. The Chiefs oline could certainly use its player that opted out, too. This was a good year for the Patriots to pack it in. They just should've done so from the start so they could tank for a QB.

I'm not blaming them for who they have picked, but those picks haven't translated into much, especially their 1st round selections over the last 5/6 years. And they've had a ton of draft capital over those season, with the exception of 2017. There just isn't much depth there, especially with all the opt outs they had.

 

[ericd7633]

Poor drafting because they've been winning all these titles and trading their draft picks away to win now instead of in the future. Now that future has come and the Patriots are getting fucked by it lol. Brady and the Carolina Panthers are the smartest two entities in this situation right now.

They traded for Cooks in 2017, but outside of that, they've had a lot of draft capital but just haven't made very good selections. They lost their 2016 1st rounder because of cheating, and then traded back this past year out of the first round. They've had 9 1st round selections since 2010, it's not like they completely mortgaged their future by trying to "win now".

 

[sonnyblack65]

Tom Brady winning vs. Bill Belichick in a lot more ways than 'Buccaneers better than Patriots'

No one expected Belichick's mojo to go out the door with Brady like this, but it has, along with Brady still being much better than what Belichick is left with at quarterback.

www.sportingnews.com

 

[DJ]

From the start of the season, there was always going to be comparisons between the Patriots and the Buccaneers just because of TB12 Version 2. Does the Bucs success and the Patriots lack thereof show that it was Belichick who needed Brady all along and not Brady who needed Belichick? Or is this struggle from New England chalked up to poor QB play or lack of roster depth or something else?

Interested to hear what you guys and gals think!

Bellicheat needed Brady.

 

[DJ]

In fairness, the Pats have had 8 or so players sit out this season......I think most of them would have an impact on the success of the team.

 

[Janus]

The coach can diagram all he wants and have all the answers but if the player doesn't execute what good is it? Brady was more important and Belicheck needed him more.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

If you have as many opt outs, injuries & Scam Newton on your team... It would happen to any of the best coaches in the history of the NFL.

This has very little to do with Brady.

 

[sonnyblack65]

If you have as many opt outs, injuries & Scam Newton on your team... It would happen to any of the best coaches in the history of the NFL.

This has very little to do with Brady.

Did Pitt's record last year, have very little to do with Ben being out?

 

[CaptainStubing]

Belichick has won 43% of his games in the NFL when someone other than Brady starts.

I still think he's a great coach but maybe the combo raised his status

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Sure

 

[GNG]

From the start of the season, there was always going to be comparisons between the Patriots and the Buccaneers just because of TB12 Version 2. Does the Bucs success and the Patriots lack thereof show that it was Belichick who needed Brady all along and not Brady who needed Belichick? Or is this struggle from New England chalked up to poor QB play or lack of roster depth or something else?

Interested to hear what you guys and gals think!

Brady was fine with the Patriots until the talent dwindled.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Belichick has won 43% of his games in the NFL when someone other than Brady starts.

I still think he's a great coach but maybe the combo raised his statu

and 73% with TB. In 26 years as HC BB is 31-12 in playoffs and 30-11 with TB

Edit Actually higher than 73% in NE, that is his combined record in NE and he is below .500 in NE w/o Tom

 

[YankeeRebel]

From the start of the season, there was always going to be comparisons between the Patriots and the Buccaneers just because of TB12 Version 2. Does the Bucs success and the Patriots lack thereof show that it was Belichick who needed Brady all along and not Brady who needed Belichick? Or is this struggle from New England chalked up to poor QB play or lack of roster depth or something else?

Interested to hear what you guys and gals think!

Well I likely won't do a whole lot of responding to this thread primarily because you just gave every troll and E- erection.

TB12 went to the Bucs because he could not survive another rebuild in NE and that Bucs team has a great defense and is loaded at the skill position. He went to where he could win now.

The Pats were cap locked with limited talent at the skill position and for this I do blame BB he cannot draft WRs he needs to stop acting like he can. The secondary is decent but out D line sucks, again that is on BB.

So who needs who more, they were a tandem for 20 years made the playoffs what 19 of those years and won 6 SB. BB put some great teams together and had some great game plans. But again the Pats are in rebuild mode and Gilmore will be gone real soon, I expect some other fire sale options too. So I don't anyone can say one needed more than the other. Let's see how the rebuild goes.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Did Pitt's record last year, have very little to do with Ben being out?

Yes, but they still managed 8-8 with 2 QBs that are vastly worse than Scam Newton. That says a lot about the Steelers roster. If they had lost as many players as NE has this year, they wouldn't have gotten close to 8 wins sans Roethlisberger.