Top 10 poll: #3 player ever

[MilkSpiller22]

I would say Aaron was consistently great but never an all time great. Like he has a lot of top 10s but rarely was the best in a season.

He is an all time great entirely because of longevity. But he would have been a HOF no matter what.

damn that was a bad post.

 

[Wamu]

I'm going to say Musial should get consideration. I cannot remember if it was @MilkSpiller22 , @Wamu or someone else who argued for his inclusion as the best of his era but looking at Musial's career after that post has me thinking he deserves serious Top 5 consideration, starting with this place.

Must have been milkspiller. I haven't had any conversations about Musial. But he's without a doubt an all time great.

 

[Clayton]

Must have been milkspiller. I haven't had any conversations about Musial. But he's without a doubt an all time great.

I think PolarVortex is the highest on Musial. Although I guess I might be the 2nd highest.

 

[Cedrique]

i like schmidt for similar reasons to why you like Mays... the offense/defense combo... now of course schmidt does not have the military nor being a black legend player...

But i also like how Schmidt is the best at his position, a non steroid user, and after expansion... Him and Bench and are the only 2 players that check that box

the clear cut best at their postition, post expansion, and are free of any cheating conspiracies... Pujols is the other possible player to check those boxes... but he has more competition at his position...

I don't have Schmidt listed in my top 3 this round either, but I'm with you on the position scarcity. I think he might get top 10. Full disclosure, he is my all time favorite player so I don't want to sound like I'm lobbying, but If the question was "who do you want to start a franchise with" I think he'd be close to the top. Mays also gets some points there too for being a top defender at a position that is not a corner outfielder. If you've ever followed a team with a bad third baseman or a bad centerfielder, you know what I mean.

 

[calsnowskier]

I would say Aaron was consistently great but never an all time great. Like he has a lot of top 10s but rarely was the best in a season.

He is an all time great entirely because of longevity. But he would have been a HOF no matter what.

Oh, I agree. Someone who plays that solid for that long absolutely belongs in these discussions.

but without the epic peak, for me, it hard to include someone like that THIS high. I probably won’t start give Aaron my vote until about 10ish. After Robinson. After Henderson. After Schmidt. After Hornsby. After Cobb.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don't have Schmidt listed in my top 3 this round either, but I'm with you on the position scarcity. I think he might get top 10. Full disclosure, he is my all time favorite player so I don't want to sound like I'm lobbying, but If the question was "who do you want to start a franchise with" I think he'd be close to the top. Mays also gets some points there too for being a top defender at a position that is not a corner outfielder. If you've ever followed a team with a bad third baseman or a bad centerfielder, you know what I mean.

It’s not just the position scarcity. Although i prefer best player at a position over 2nd or third best. Generally.

It’s more about the time the player played. Statistically speaking, pre expansion stats are inflated. Pre color barrier stats are even worse.

Schmidt gets dinged because he played in the 70s and 80s where stats were all down. That’s just not fair. And clearly wrong.

Most all time lists love pre color barrier players.

 

[LHG]

I think PolarVortex is the highest on Musial. Although I guess I might be the 2nd highest.

Thank you. That was the poster.

 

[Clayton]

Im not really sure how much positional scarcity matters in a discussion like this. You're playing baseball and you want the MVPs and #1 Aces. Yeah, you dont want liabilities at important positions but you can at least find servicable dudes when building a team. You can't find unicorns.

 

[calsnowskier]

Im not really sure how much positional scarcity matters in a discussion like this. You're playing baseball and you want the MVPs and #1 Aces. Yeah, you dont want liabilities at important positions but you can at least find servicable dudes when building a team. You can't find unicorns.

When you have positions that are important to the game (C, SS, 3B, CF) that don’t attract the BIG hitters, when a BIG hitter does end up playing those positions, they are that much more valuable. A stud hitting DH will NEVER compete with a good hitting SS. The SS just brings soooooo much more to ball park every day.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Im not really sure how much positional scarcity matters in a discussion like this. You're playing baseball and you want the MVPs and #1 Aces. Yeah, you dont want liabilities at important positions but you can at least find servicable dudes when building a team. You can't find unicorns.

It matters defensively. And for catchers. But offensively it has little factor in this.

But when you have Willie Mays at 2 you set the precedent that defense matters.

 

[calsnowskier]

It matters defensively. And for catchers. But offensively it has little factor in this.

But when you have Willie Mays at 2 you set the precedent that defense matters.

Don’t let previous votes, or the opinions of others influence your votes. Your opinion on the order matters, and is the purpose of the poll. Everyone’s individual opinions will say much more once we hit 5 and different weight systems REALLY start to conflict. Like I said, I think the first 4 are pretty easy. But 5+ is where we will start to see fireworks.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Don’t let previous votes, or the opinions of others influence your votes. Your opinion on the order matters, and is the purpose of the poll. Everyone’s individual opinions will say much more once we hit 5 and different weight systems REALLY start to conflict. Like I said, I think the first 4 are pretty easy. But 5+ is where we will start to see fireworks.

Sure. But how else can I give shade for you people picking mays at 2.

 

[calsnowskier]

Sure. But how else can I give shade for you people picking mays at 2.

Make an argument that makes sense…

 

[Clayton]

When you have positions that are important to the game (C, SS, 3B, CF) that don’t attract the BIG hitters, when a BIG hitter does end up playing those positions, they are that much more valuable. A stud hitting DH will NEVER compete with a good hitting SS. The SS just brings soooooo much more to ball park every day.

Id imagine the general idea with great hitters is to have them play as long as possible. If they have the range for CF then thats probably ideal and certainly if they can do 3B. A lot of great players get downgraded a bit as they age

So um...where is ARod in this whole discussion?

 

[Cedrique]

Id imagine the general idea with great hitters is to have them play as long as possible. If they have the range for CF then thats probably ideal and certainly if they can do 3B. A lot of great players get downgraded a bit as they age

So um...where is ARod in this whole discussion?

Yeah, I was thinking about him when talking about starting a team. If you can get a shortstop that's gonna hit around 700 home runs, that's not a bad place to start.

 

[calsnowskier]

Id imagine the general idea with great hitters is to have them play as long as possible. If they have the range for CF then thats probably ideal and certainly if they can do 3B. A lot of great players get downgraded a bit as they age

So um...where is ARod in this whole discussion?

He is a GREAT argument. And I don’t really want to rehash it AGAIN, but it is part of the fabric of the discussion, so you can’t NOT talk about it…

He is a caught cheater. And he broke the RULE while it was the ENTIRE focus of the game.

Twice.

But, he was absolutely, without question an absolute stud. Just looking at numbers, ignoring “noise”, I think he belongs in the discussion coming in the 5 neighborhood (at least that is when he should start being seriously discussed).

I dont know how to place him in this list. He is ACTUALLY a cheater. He broke the #2 rule of the game, while the room was buzzing about said room.

Does that nullify him?

I think it has to. But I am hardly even willing to argue on that hill, let along die on it. I think I will just not vote for him, and make that the extent of my “boycott” on him.

 

[LHG]

He is a GREAT argument. And I don’t really want to rehash it AGAIN, but it is part of the fabric of the discussion, so you can’t NOT talk about it…

He is a caught cheater. And he broke the RULE while it was the ENTIRE focus of the game.

Twice.

But, he was absolutely, without question an absolute stud. Just looking at numbers, ignoring “noise”, I think he belongs in the discussion coming in the 5 neighborhood (at least that is when he should start being seriously discussed).

I dont know how to place him in this list. He is ACTUALLY a cheater. He broke the #2 rule of the game, while the room was buzzing about said room.

Does that nullify him?

I think it has to. But I am hardly even willing to argue on that hill, let along die on it. I think I will just not vote for him, and make that the extent of my “boycott” on him.

I caught a game in Tacoma when he was playing there and had to deal with some screaming teenage girls calling his name behind us the whole game (or seemed the whole game). Almost ruined watching baseball that day. That alone means he doesn’t deserve a Top 25 spot. Then there is the cheating (but I have to ask, does that really erode the value of his play on the field?).

 

[Janus]

Bonds is still on the board, you know…

Fuck him

 

[calsnowskier]

I caught a game in Tacoma when he was playing there and had to deal with some screaming teenage girls calling his name behind us the whole game (or seemed the whole game). Almost ruined watching baseball that day. That alone means he doesn’t deserve a Top 25 spot. Then there is the cheating (but I have to ask, does that really erode the value of his play on the field?).

He wasn’t playing the game as it was legally meant to be played.

I understand how ignorant people won’t understand the nuance of my argument here, but it really is all about the details.

Bonds = non cheater
ARod = cheater

 

[Cedrique]

He wasn’t playing the game as it was legally meant to be played.

I understand how ignorant people won’t understand the nuance of my argument here, but it really is all about the details.

Bonds = non cheater
ARod = cheater

He still had a great career before he started cheating