POLL Top 10 poll: #17 player ever

[calsnowskier]

1) Babe Ruth (defeated Willie Mays 23-9)
2) Willie Mays (defeated Barry Bonds 26-11)
3) Ted Williams (defeated Barry Bonds 18-17)
4) Barry Bonds (defeated Hank Aaron and Ty Cobb 20-11-8)
5) Hank Aaron (defeated Ty Cobb 17-16)
6) Ty Cobb (defeated Lou Gehrig 24-9)
7) Lou Gehrig (defeated Walter Johnson 19-10)
8) Mickey Mantle (defeated Walter Johnson 17-12)
9) Walter Johnson (defeated Stan Musial and Rogers Hornsby 18-7-3)
10) Stan Musial (defeated Rogers Hornsby 15-10)
11) Rogers Hornsby (defeated H. Wagner, R. Henderson, M. Schmidt and R. Clemens 15-4-3-2-1)
12) Honus Wagner (defeated Roger Clemens 19-8)
13) Mike Schmidt (defeated Roger Clemens 16-12)
14) Rickey Henderson (defeated Roger Clemens 17-13)
15) Roger Clemens (defeated Ken Griffey Jr 16-14)
16) Randy Johnson (defeated Tris Speaker 16-11)

Who is the #17 player ever? This poll will close Monday AM.

VOTE FOR 3!!

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[calsnowskier]

Greg Maddux 1986 - 2010

4 CY, 5 top 5 CY, 2 top 5 MVP, 4 more season w MVP votes, 8 ASG, 18 GG

Bold: IP 5, ERA 4, WHIP 4, K/BB 3

355-227 W-L
3371/999 K/BB
740/109 GS/CG
5008.1 IP

Pedro Martinez 1992 - 2009

3 CY, 4 top 5 CY, 2 top 5 MVP, 4 more season w MVP votes, 8 ASG

Bold: ERA 5, K 3, WHIP 6, K/BB 5

219-100 W-L
3154/760 K/BB
409/46 GS/CG
2827.1 IP

Cy Young 1890 - 1911

CY every day of his life (no accolades given during his career)

Bold: ERA 2, K 2, WHIP 7, IP 2, K/BB 11; All Time; Wins 511, GS 815, CG 749, IP 7356.0

511-315 W-L
2803/1217 K/BB
815/749 GS/CG
7356.0 IP

Christy Mathewson 1900 - 1916

2 top 5 MVP, 2 more season w MVP votes (MVP only awarded 4 years during his career)

Bold: ERA 5, K 5, WHIP 4, IP 1, K/BB 9

373-188 W-L
2507/848 K/BB
552/435 GS/CG
4788.2 IP

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Went pujols, arod and trout here.

I know arod has no chance to win here but I am not a steroid punisher. So he is clearly deserving.

I’d say pujols and arod are my top 2 choices.

Trouts the interesting one. He has the prime to compete with anyone. He just doesn’t have anything else. Not the longevity to accumulate stats, no post season boost. No nothing.

 

[calsnowskier]

Tris Speaker (CF) 1907 - 1928

1 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP, 1 additional season receiving MVP votes (MVP only given in 4 years of his career)

135.0, 62.1

Bold: RBI 1, 2B 8, HR 1, OPS 1, TB 1, all time 2B

OPS+ buckets

180 - 3
160 - 6
140 - 6
120 - 2

Shohei Ohtani (DH) 2018 - current

3 MVP, 1 top 5 CY, 1 top 5 MVP, ROY, 3 ASG

28.7, 28.7

Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, OPS 2, TB 2

OPS+ buckets

180 - 2
160 - 0
140 - 3
120 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936 - 1951 (3 years lost to WWII)

3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 additional seasons with MVP votes, 13 ASG (AS every year of career)

79.1, 52.1

Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 2, TB 3

OPS+ buckets

180 - 2
160 - 3
140 - 4
120 - 2

Yogi Berra (C) 1946 - 1965

3 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 8 additional seasons with MVP votes, 15 ASG (3 years with 2 ASG)

59.5, 38.2

Bold: NA

OPS+ buckets

180 - 0
160 - 0
140 - 2
120 - 7

Jimmie Foxx (1B) 1925 - 1942

3 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 4 additional seasons with MVP votes, 9 ASG (ASG started in his age 25 season - he already had 4 MVP vote seasons at that time)

92.2, 58.1

Bold: R 1, HR 4, RBI 3, BB 2, OPS 5, TB 3

OPS+ buckets

200 - 2
180 - 4
160 - 2
140 - 4
120 - 2

Albert Pujols (1B) 2001 - 2022

3 MVP, 7 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP, 2 additional seasons with MVP votes, 11 ASG, ROY, 6 SS, 2 GG

101.5, 59.8

Bold: R 5, HR 2, RBI 1, OPS 3, TB 4, 2B 1

OPS+ buckets

200 - 0
180 - 3
160 - 4
140 - 5
120 - 2

Frank Robinson (RF) 1956 - 1976

2 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 additional seasons with MVP votes, 12 (+2) ASG, ROY, 6 SS, 2 GG

107.2, 52.9

Bold: R 3, HR 1, RBI 1, OPS 4, TB 1, 2B 1

OPS+ buckets

200 - 0
180 - 2
160 - 5
140 - 8
120 - 3

 

[calsnowskier]

Went pujols, arod and trout here.

I know arod has no chance to win here but I am not a steroid punisher. So he is clearly deserving.

I’d say pujols and arod are my top 2 choices.

Trouts the interesting one. He has the prime to compete with anyone. He just doesn’t have anything else. Not the longevity to accumulate stats, no post season boost. No nothing.

Do you have anything against the pitchers, or just feel 3 hitters are the next off the board for you?

 

[calsnowskier]

I think Maddux is the top name on the board at this time, but not by a significant margin. I will PROBABLY go Maddux/Martinez/Young, but Pujols and Robinson may be able work their way onto my nom list as well.

A lot of traffic here.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Do you have anything against the pitchers, or just feel 3 hitters are the next off the board for you?

It’s the nomination round, I know maddux and Pedro will be well represented.

I would probably vote a pitcher over trout right now. But I think it is time for him to get in the conversation.

 

[msgkings322]

Tris Speaker (CF) 1907 - 1928

1 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP, 1 additional season receiving MVP votes (MVP only given in 4 years of his career)

135.0, 62.1

Bold: RBI 1, 2B 8, HR 1, OPS 1, TB 1, all time 2B

OPS+ buckets

180 - 3
160 - 6
140 - 6
120 - 2

Shohei Ohtani (DH) 2018 - current

3 MVP, 1 top 5 CY, 1 top 5 MVP, ROY, 3 ASG

28.7, 28.7

Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, OPS 2, TB 2

OPS+ buckets

180 - 2
160 - 0
140 - 3
120 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936 - 1951 (3 years lost to WWII)

3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 additional seasons with MVP votes, 13 ASG (AS every year of career)

79.1, 52.1

Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 2, TB 3

OPS+ buckets

180 - 2
160 - 3
140 - 4
120 - 2

Yogi Berra (C) 1946 - 1965

3 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 8 additional seasons with MVP votes, 15 ASG (3 years with 2 ASG)

59.5, 38.2

Bold: NA

OPS+ buckets

180 - 0
160 - 0
140 - 2
120 - 7

Jimmie Foxx (1B) 1925 - 1942

3 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 4 additional seasons with MVP votes, 9 ASG (ASG started in his age 25 season - he already had 4 MVP vote seasons at that time)

92.2, 58.1

Bold: R 1, HR 4, RBI 3, BB 2, OPS 5, TB 3

OPS+ buckets

200 - 2
180 - 4
160 - 2
140 - 4
120 - 2

Albert Pujols (1B) 2001 - 2022

3 MVP, 7 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP, 2 additional seasons with MVP votes, 11 ASG, ROY, 6 SS, 2 GG

101.5, 59.8

Bold: R 5, HR 2, RBI 1, OPS 3, TB 4, 2B 1

OPS+ buckets

200 - 0
180 - 3
160 - 4
140 - 5
120 - 2

Frank Robinson (RF) 1956 - 1976

2 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 additional seasons with MVP votes, 12 (+2) ASG, ROY, 6 SS, 2 GG

107.2, 52.9

Bold: R 3, HR 1, RBI 1, OPS 4, TB 1, 2B 1

OPS+ buckets

200 - 0
180 - 2
160 - 5
140 - 8
120 - 3

I get that you don't like Ohtani getting votes at this level, but you are putting your thumb on the scale listing just his batting WAR. He also has 15.1 career WAR from pitching for a total of 43.8 WAR in just 7 years...I believe 2023 was his highest combined WAR season.

I'm not saying that makes him a lock here but it better reflects the reason he is getting votes

Shohei Ohtani Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Shohei Ohtani. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

 

[LHG]

Tris Speaker (CF) 1907 - 1928

1 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP, 1 additional season receiving MVP votes (MVP only given in 4 years of his career)

135.0, 62.1

Bold: RBI 1, 2B 8, HR 1, OPS 1, TB 1, all time 2B

OPS+ buckets

180 - 3
160 - 6
140 - 6
120 - 2

Shohei Ohtani (DH) 2018 - current

3 MVP, 1 top 5 CY, 1 top 5 MVP, ROY, 3 ASG

28.7, 28.7

Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, OPS 2, TB 2

OPS+ buckets

180 - 2
160 - 0
140 - 3
120 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936 - 1951 (3 years lost to WWII)

3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 additional seasons with MVP votes, 13 ASG (AS every year of career)

79.1, 52.1

Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 2, TB 3

OPS+ buckets

180 - 2
160 - 3
140 - 4
120 - 2

Yogi Berra (C) 1946 - 1965

3 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 8 additional seasons with MVP votes, 15 ASG (3 years with 2 ASG)

59.5, 38.2

Bold: NA

OPS+ buckets

180 - 0
160 - 0
140 - 2
120 - 7

Jimmie Foxx (1B) 1925 - 1942

3 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 4 additional seasons with MVP votes, 9 ASG (ASG started in his age 25 season - he already had 4 MVP vote seasons at that time)

92.2, 58.1

Bold: R 1, HR 4, RBI 3, BB 2, OPS 5, TB 3

OPS+ buckets

200 - 2
180 - 4
160 - 2
140 - 4
120 - 2

Albert Pujols (1B) 2001 - 2022

3 MVP, 7 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP, 2 additional seasons with MVP votes, 11 ASG, ROY, 6 SS, 2 GG

101.5, 59.8

Bold: R 5, HR 2, RBI 1, OPS 3, TB 4, 2B 1

OPS+ buckets

200 - 0
180 - 3
160 - 4
140 - 5
120 - 2

Frank Robinson (RF) 1956 - 1976

2 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 additional seasons with MVP votes, 12 (+2) ASG, ROY, 6 SS, 2 GG

107.2, 52.9

Bold: R 3, HR 1, RBI 1, OPS 4, TB 1, 2B 1

OPS+ buckets

200 - 0
180 - 2
160 - 5
140 - 8
120 - 3

Gotta add Trout to these.

 

[LHG]

I get that you don't like Ohtani getting votes at this level, but you are putting your thumb on the scale listing just his batting WAR. He also has 15.1 career WAR from pitching for a total of 43.8 WAR in just 7 years...I believe 2023 was his highest combined WAR season.

I'm not saying that makes him a lock here but it better reflects the reason he is getting votes

Shohei Ohtani Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Shohei Ohtani. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

Could be because he doesn't like pitcher WAR?

 

[calsnowskier]

I get that you don't like Ohtani getting votes at this level, but you are putting your thumb on the scale listing just his batting WAR. He also has 15.1 career WAR from pitching for a total of 43.8 WAR in just 7 years...I believe 2023 was his highest combined WAR season.

I'm not saying that makes him a lock here but it better reflects the reason he is getting votes

Shohei Ohtani Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Shohei Ohtani. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

Notice I don’t list any pitchers WAR.

 

[msgkings322]

Notice I don’t list any pitchers WAR.

Fair but then there should be another way to reflect that part of his value when you list him compared to the others. Of course he wouldn't get a single vote if he were just a hitter. Even more unicorny than Rickey.

Not that it matters, he won't make any slots for sure in the top 30, probably further, which is probably as it should be (I will keep nominating him though)

 

[calsnowskier]

Gotta add Trout to these.

You are welcome to do the legwork…

 

[calsnowskier]

Fair but then there should be another way to reflect that part of his value when you list him compared to the others. Of course he wouldn't get a single vote if he were just a hitter. Even more unicorny than Rickey.

Than stump for him. Don’t expect someone else who doesn’t believe he belongs YET to do your work for you.

 

[msgkings322]

Than stump for him. Don’t expect someone else who doesn’t believe he belongs YET to do your work for you.

I...just did

 

[calsnowskier]

I...just did

Great. Than we are in agreement.

 

[msgkings322]

Great. Than we are in agreement.

 

[LHG]

Updated for #15 (about time!):
1) Babe Ruth (1914-1935)
2) Willie Mays (1948-1973)
3) Ted Williams (1939-1960)
4) Barry Bonds (1986-2007)
5) Hank Aaron (1954-1976)
6) Ty Cobb (1905-1928)
7) Lou Gehrig (1923-1939)
8) Mickey Mantle (1951-1968)
9) Walter Johnson (1907-1927)
10) Stan Musial (1941-1963)
11) Rogers Hornsby (1915-1937)
12) Honus Wagner (1897-1917)
13) Mike Schmidt (1972-1989)
14) Rickey Henderson (1979-2003)
15) Roger Clemens (1984-2007)

1876-1896 - 0
1897-1904 - 1
1905-1906 - 2
1907-1913 - 3
1914 - 4
1915-1917 - 5
1918-1922 - 4
1923-1927 - 5
1928 - 4
1929-1935 - 3
1936-1937 - 2
1938 - 1
1939 - 2
1940 - 1
1941-1947 - 2
1948-1950 - 3
1951-1953 - 4
1954-1960 - 5
1961-1963 - 4
1964-1968 - 3
1969-1971 - 2
1972-1973 - 3
1974-1976 - 2
1977-1978 - 1
1979-1983 - 2
1984-1985 - 3
1986-1989 - 4
1990-2003 - 3
2004-2007 - 2
2007-2024 - 0

Updated for #16 (too high, but okay):
1) Babe Ruth (1914-1935)
2) Willie Mays (1948-1973)
3) Ted Williams (1939-1960)
4) Barry Bonds (1986-2007)
5) Hank Aaron (1954-1976)
6) Ty Cobb (1905-1928)
7) Lou Gehrig (1923-1939)
8) Mickey Mantle (1951-1968)
9) Walter Johnson (1907-1927)
10) Stan Musial (1941-1963)
11) Rogers Hornsby (1915-1937)
12) Honus Wagner (1897-1917)
13) Mike Schmidt (1972-1989)
14) Rickey Henderson (1979-2003)
15) Roger Clemens (1984-2007)
16) Randy Johnson (1988-2009)

1876-1896 - 0
1897-1904 - 1
1905-1906 - 2
1907-1913 - 3
1914 - 4
1915-1917 - 5
1918-1922 - 4
1923-1927 - 5
1928 - 4
1929-1935 - 3
1936-1937 - 2
1938 - 1
1939 - 2
1940 - 1
1941-1947 - 2
1948-1950 - 3
1951-1953 - 4
1954-1960 - 5
1961-1963 - 4
1964-1968 - 3
1969-1971 - 2
1972-1973 - 3
1974-1976 - 2
1977-1978 - 1
1979-1983 - 2
1984-1985 - 3
1986-1987 - 4
1988-1989 - 5
1990-2003 - 4
2004-2007 - 3
2008-2009 - 1
2010-2024 - 0

 

[LHG]

You are welcome to do the legwork…

Just weird that he's been in the conversations with the others but was omitted in your post. Not sure what you use to determine who you will compare.

 

[msgkings322]

Updated for #16 (too high, but okay):
1) Babe Ruth (1914-1935)
2) Willie Mays (1948-1973)
3) Ted Williams (1939-1960)
4) Barry Bonds (1986-2007)
5) Hank Aaron (1954-1976)
6) Ty Cobb (1905-1928)
7) Lou Gehrig (1923-1939)
8) Mickey Mantle (1951-1968)
9) Walter Johnson (1907-1927)
10) Stan Musial (1941-1963)
11) Rogers Hornsby (1915-1937)
12) Honus Wagner (1897-1917)
13) Mike Schmidt (1972-1989)
14) Rickey Henderson (1979-2003)
15) Roger Clemens (1984-2007)
16) Randy Johnson (1988-2009)

1876-1896 - 0
1897-1904 - 1
1905-1906 - 2
1907-1913 - 3
1914 - 4
1915-1917 - 5
1918-1922 - 4
1923-1927 - 5
1928 - 4
1929-1935 - 3
1936-1937 - 2
1938 - 1
1939 - 2
1940 - 1
1941-1947 - 2
1948-1950 - 3
1951-1953 - 4
1954-1960 - 5
1961-1963 - 4
1964-1968 - 3
1969-1971 - 2
1972-1973 - 3
1974-1976 - 2
1977-1978 - 1
1979-1983 - 2
1984-1985 - 3
1986-1987 - 4
1988-1989 - 5
1990-2003 - 4
2004-2007 - 3
2008-2009 - 1
2010-2024 - 0

Thanks for doing these, interesting to see 3 peaks emerge (1914-1928, 1951-1963, 1986-2003)