tofficial Cavs thread

[lakersrule]

This guy already has ownership claims secured, and I bet there was some quiet arrangement that also got LBJ back

They better keep it very quiet because it is not allowed under the current CBA.

 

[gordontrue]

Did LeBron James Negotiate To Own Part Of The Cavs In Order To Return To Cleveland? - Forbes

That's one of the most speculative, openly un-informed "articles" I've ever read.

 

[gordontrue]

Can a player have a piece of ownership while still actively on the roster? I didn't think that was allowed. Maybe it was promised to him after he retires?

No way, that's a big time conflict of interest (being an owner and part the players union) and explicitly prohibited.

Even a promise would be considered very much against the rules and if discovered would carry huge consequences.


The one thing I agree with on this is that LeBron is a very smart business man... and a very smart business man would stay the hell away from anything resembling a promise of ownership.

 

[WiggyRuss]

apparently I am skating on thin ice because i said that Jimmy Buss is incompetent and that the Lakers have a LONG way to go to prove to players that they are not the mess that they have been the last couple years.

I say that Dan Gilbert is one of the most succesfull self-made men in the USA- and that Jimmy Buss has proven himself to be in WAY over his head and lives in a cloud of nepotistic failure.

This is all TRUE by the way. I have never seen anyone question it and they would be wrong to do so.



If Jeanie Buss was running the basketball operations for the Lakers I would feel MUCH better about their chances long term

but when you look down the hallway and see Steve Balmer, he of the 18 billion dollars, Doc Rivers, CP3 and Blake signed up LONG TERM- and then see the Lakers- Jimmy Buss, and Kobe at the end of it- it makes you wonder just who is the first player that is going to take the leap there- Which guy is going to go into there and make Staples the Lakers again instead of the Clippers

Doc Rivers, Cp3, Griffen or Byron Scott, maybe 2-3 years of past his prime Kobe, and Julius Randle.....

As i have said---- Who is taking all these Lakers cap space that they have had last offseason and got shot down on?---



If these are unfair questions then I am sorry- I have no clue what the right questions are

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

apparently I am skating on thin ice because i said that Jimmy Buss is incompetent and that the Lakers have a LONG way to go to prove to players that they are not the mess that they have been the last couple years.

I say that Dan Gilbert is one of the most succesfull self-made men in the USA- and that Jimmy Buss has proven himself to be in WAY over his head and lives in a cloud of nepotistic failure.

This is all TRUE by the way. I have never seen anyone question it and they would be wrong to do so.



If Jeanie Buss was running the basketball operations for the Lakers I would feel MUCH better about their chances long term

but when you look down the hallway and see Steve Balmer, he of the 18 billion dollars, Doc Rivers, CP3 and Blake signed up LONG TERM- and then see the Lakers- Jimmy Buss, and Kobe at the end of it- it makes you wonder just who is the first player that is going to take the leap there- Which guy is going to go into there and make Staples the Lakers again instead of the Clippers

Doc Rivers, Cp3, Griffen or Byron Scott, maybe 2-3 years of past his prime Kobe, and Julius Randle.....

As i have said---- Who is taking all these Lakers cap space that they have had last offseason and got shot down on?---




If these are unfair questions then I am sorry- I have no clue what the right questions are

You act like these billionaires don't mind writing multi million dollar luxury checks.

They became billionaires by being good businessmen.

If it was meant to be a spending contest, they would eliminate salary cap, correct?

Good business is having your team be profitable.

I understand that Gilbert gave up that control for now, but James' value will cover the penalties short term.

Reality is, many other owners can buy and sell Gilbert.

If he goes rouge against the other 29, I doubt he'll get much help from them down the road.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I actually LOVE the Randle pick- him falling to 7 was huge for the Lakers.....that kid could be an all-star once he hits his prime there is no doubt in my mind- i wouldnt have batted an eye if he went third- and i think he should have went 4th

but for right now i think he is a 19 year old kid that can only shoot with one hand that is slightly undersized

 

[WiggyRuss]

You act like these billionaires don't mind writing multi million dollar luxury checks.

They became billionaires by being good businessmen.

If it was meant to be a spending contest, they would eliminate salary cap, correct?

Good business is having your team be profitable.

I understand that Gilbert gave up that control for now, but James' value will cover the penalties short term.

Reality is, many other owners can buy and sell Gilbert.

If he goes rouge against the other 29, I doubt he'll get much help from them down the road.

the myth that LEBron was in charge last time is also laughable. the Cavs front office WANTED him to take a more active role- the year that they had all the cap space- and came away with Hughes, Jones, Marshall------- Ray Allen and Michael Redd were on their list- the Cavs front office BEGGED LeBron to takew a more active role and he said No - he was not the GM----- so wherever this idea that LeBron was the defacto GM last time came from just makes no sense to me

as for this time around

I dont see one move that the Cavs would do differently whether LeBron had 100% of the say or 0% of the say.....if someone could point me to one and give me an explanation as to why I would be all ears

 

[trojanfan12]

No way, that's a big time conflict of interest (being an owner and part the players union) and explicitly prohibited.

Even a promise would be considered very much against the rules and if discovered would carry huge consequences.


The one thing I agree with on this is that LeBron is a very smart business man... and a very smart business man would stay the hell away from anything resembling a promise of ownership.

Yeah, I didn't think it was okay for a player to have ownership in the team. There may be a handshake deal, but like you said, they'd better keep it very, very quiet. If memory serves, Magic got a small piece of the Lakers after he retired because of HIV, but when he came back in '96, he had to give up his piece of the team. Then when he retired again, he got it back.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You act like these billionaires don't mind writing multi million dollar luxury checks.

They became billionaires by being good businessmen.

If it was meant to be a spending contest, they would eliminate salary cap, correct?

Good business is having your team be profitable.

I understand that Gilbert gave up that control for now, but James' value will cover the penalties short term.

Reality is, many other owners can buy and sell Gilbert.

If he goes rouge against the other 29, I doubt he'll get much help from them down the road.

from waht I have seen the 3 richest NBA owners are

Paul Allen of the Blazers
Ballmer of the Clips
The Russian of the Nets

each has well over 10 billion, Paul Allen well over 20 i believe....Gilbert has just under 4 billion........

Buss died with about 700 million that was i would expect split up among the 6 kids or just put into the trust

 

[trojanfan12]

apparently I am skating on thin ice because i said that Jimmy Buss is incompetent and that the Lakers have a LONG way to go to prove to players that they are not the mess that they have been the last couple years.

I say that Dan Gilbert is one of the most succesfull self-made men in the USA- and that Jimmy Buss has proven himself to be in WAY over his head and lives in a cloud of nepotistic failure.

This is all TRUE by the way. I have never seen anyone question it and they would be wrong to do so.



If Jeanie Buss was running the basketball operations for the Lakers I would feel MUCH better about their chances long term

but when you look down the hallway and see Steve Balmer, he of the 18 billion dollars, Doc Rivers, CP3 and Blake signed up LONG TERM- and then see the Lakers- Jimmy Buss, and Kobe at the end of it- it makes you wonder just who is the first player that is going to take the leap there- Which guy is going to go into there and make Staples the Lakers again instead of the Clippers

Doc Rivers, Cp3, Griffen or Byron Scott, maybe 2-3 years of past his prime Kobe, and Julius Randle.....

As i have said---- Who is taking all these Lakers cap space that they have had last offseason and got shot down on?---



If these are unfair questions then I am sorry- I have no clue what the right questions are

First of all, you are on thin ice for trolling and de-railing threads. Don't get it twisted.

2nd of all, it's been explained to you multiple times, that the owners net worth and where the money comes from makes zero difference if the organization is profitable.

There are only 2 occasions that an owners personal fortune matters:

1.) When they buy the team - They have to show that they can actually afford the team.

2.) If the team isn't profitable enough to cover salaries and any potential luxury tax.

Their is a collective bargaining agreement in place that has a salary cap and luxury tax penalties. There is a maximum amount that teams can spend even if they reach the highest part of the luxury tax threshold. The Lakers deal with Time-Warner covers any salaries and any resultant luxury tax, up to the max that a team can pay. This means that the Buss family never has to dip into their personal fortune.

It doesn't matter if the Buss family has no more money than you or I because they never have to use their own money.

This is the Cavs thread, not the Lakers thread. How about you discuss the Cavs (since this is the Cavs thread) and answer the Cavs related questions that have come up, instead of deflecting to the Lakers and/or the Heat because don't want to admit that there are legitimate questions about the Cavs?

 

[WiggyRuss]

First of all, you are on thin ice for trolling and de-railing threads. Don't get it twisted.

2nd of all, it's been explained to you multiple times, that the owners net worth and where the money comes from makes zero difference if the organization is profitable.

There are only 2 occasions that an owners personal fortune matters:

1.) When they buy the team - They have to show that they can actually afford the team.

2.) If the team isn't profitable enough to cover salaries and any potential luxury tax.

Their is a collective bargaining agreement in place that has a salary cap and luxury tax penalties. There is a maximum amount that teams can spend even if they reach the highest part of the luxury tax threshold. The Lakers deal with Time-Warner covers any salaries and any resultant luxury tax, up to the max that a team can pay. This means that the Buss family never has to dip into their personal fortune.

It doesn't matter if the Buss family has no more money than you or I because they never have to use their own money.

This is the Cavs thread, not the Lakers thread. How about you discuss the Cavs (since this is the Cavs thread) and answer the Cavs related questions that have come up, instead of deflecting to the Lakers and/or the Heat because don't want to admit that there are legitimate questions about the Cavs?

i mean- this is all well and good until you take into the account the example that I CLEARLY displayed with the Russian in Brooklyn



he had the highest salary of ALL TIME LAST YEAR....i mean- it was not even close...no one was within 50 million dollars of what he ended up paying in salary and tax- and the Nets CERTAINLY are not near as profitable as the Lakers, Knicks-as the Heat were

 

[trojanfan12]

I actually LOVE the Randle pick- him falling to 7 was huge for the Lakers.....that kid could be an all-star once he hits his prime there is no doubt in my mind- i wouldnt have batted an eye if he went third- and i think he should have went 4th

but for right now i think he is a 19 year old kid that can only shoot with one hand that is slightly undersized

I like him too and having him is part of the reason that I like the Lakers getting Boozer. Boozer certainly isn't going to be a difference maker in the Lakers becoming a contender or even making the playoffs, but he is a solid professional who can teach Randle a lot.

Now back to this being a Cavs thread.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Can a player have a piece of ownership while still actively on the roster? I didn't think that was allowed. Maybe it was promised to him after he retires?

No.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if it happens under the table some time in the future.

Lets be serious, Lebron will be part Owner of the Cavs after his playing days are over and that could have been discussed.

But, all parties know they are being watched closely and would never be dumb enough to put it in writing or leave any tangible proof.

Or, it could just be a big conspiracy theory/ witch hunt .

 

[trojanfan12]

i mean- this is all well and good until you take into the account the example that I CLEARLY displayed with the Russian in Brooklyn



he had the highest salary of ALL TIME LAST YEAR....i mean- it was not even close...no one was within 50 million dollars of what he ended up paying in salary and tax- and the Nets CERTAINLY are not near as profitable as the Lakers, Knicks-as the Heat were

That's when an owners personal fortune matters. When the team is not profitable. If the Nets owner didn't have the money that he has, he couldn't have gone over the cap like he did.

If they needed to, the Lakers could have matched him dollar for dollar and never dipped into the Buss families money because of the Time Warner deal. My guess is, that as long as Lebron is in Cleveland, the Cavs will be profitable and Gilbert will be able willing and able to pay any luxury tax.

However, once Lebron is gone, don't be surprised if he slips right back into what he's been doing for the past 4 years while Lebron was in Miami.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Really? I've got to hear this. Love, LeBron, and Irving are BETTER than Bosh, LeBron, and a declining Wade. LeBron, Love, and Irving are all in their PRIME. Wade was breaking down when LBJ and Bosh joined him.

But, lets compare the rest. Waiters is better than all of the Heat bench players. Verajao is a pretty good defensive center. Thompson is reaching his prime and should be a double double machine. (he was pretty good at double doubles last year) Add in Mike Miller who still shoots pretty well. Add in Marion, a very good defensive player and veteran leader. Haywood gives them a decent backup center. Dellavedova shoots the three well and is an OK backup for Kyrie. (The Heat PG's aren't exactly premier players) James Jones can still shoot the 3 also. Ray Allen, if he decides to play another year joins the Cavs and gives them a pretty good three point shooting group.

I know there is a "hate Cleveland" bias here and it probably got even more hateful when LBJ decided to come back. (likely because of all the free agents don't want to go to Cleveland morons were proven wrong)

They are not better than the 2010 Heatles.

But, the fat and happy Heat with the one-legged Wade?

Yes.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

GFY, you think you know NBA BB and you simply don't. Russ and me make you look moronic. Well, actually, you do a fine job yourself.

If you get struck down, you deserve it.

You complain about the name calling.

Yet, you do it every post.

You complain about the anti-Cavs/Ohio rhetoric.

Yet, you bash other cities relentlessly.

Take a lesson in class from Wamu.

He was disagreed, vehemently , with Heat and Laker fans.

But, in no post has he ever told someone to go fuck themselves.

Even Russ with his repetitive Love-sonnets has no need to sink to your level.

He bashes Teams and Owners, not the actual person posting.

It was nice knowing you, enjoy the Season.

.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That's when an owners personal fortune matters. When the team is not profitable. If the Nets owner didn't have the money that he has, he couldn't have gone over the cap like he did.

If they needed to, the Lakers could have matched him dollar for dollar and never dipped into the Buss families money because of the Time Warner deal. My guess is, that as long as Lebron is in Cleveland, the Cavs will be profitable and Gilbert will be able willing and able to pay any luxury tax.

However, once Lebron is gone, don't be surprised if he slips right back into what he's been doing for the past 4 years while Lebron was in Miami.

what he did the last 4 years was try and institute a rebuilding program-

and did waht OKC did- what the 76'ers are doing- maintaining cap flexibility to basically at times "rent" out their cap room to get assets

when the Lakers wanted to save money and cut salary and get rid of Walton? the Cavs had cap space to take him back and got a 1st round pick plus the rights to switch a 1st a rounder- which ended up becoming Zeller and Karasev- 2 guys traded to faciltate the signing of James.

the Haywood deal he just did- its so they have a 10.5M expiring contract next year to get an asset with

the Mo Wililliams Baron Davis deal is the BIGGEST example- they took Barons old broken down body and TONS AND TONS AND TONS of salary in order to get the Clips lotto pick- (which ended up being Kyrie)

just because the Cavs were not over the cap the last few years does not mean that Gilbert was not using his sizable wallet to leverage moves

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

the myth that LEBron was in charge last time is also laughable. the Cavs front office WANTED him to take a more active role- the year that they had all the cap space- and came away with Hughes, Jones, Marshall------- Ray Allen and Michael Redd were on their list- the Cavs front office BEGGED LeBron to takew a more active role and he said No - he was not the GM----- so wherever this idea that LeBron was the defacto GM last time came from just makes no sense to me

as for this time around

I dont see one move that the Cavs would do differently whether LeBron had 100% of the say or 0% of the say.....if someone could point me to one and give me an explanation as to why I would be all ears

Where did I mention anything about his first stint there?

As far as this time, the only thing possibly different would be the decision to keep Wiggins or not.

My opinion is most owners would where James wouldn't.

The James moves will be more noticeable moving forward.
For starters, let's see how Thompson is handled ( same agent), then Andy ( his buddy).

 

[WiggyRuss]

Derrick Rose sat out his second consecutive day of practice Tuesday to rest his surgically repaired knees but is still scheduled to play for Team USA in its exhibition game Wednesday night against the Dominican Republic at Madison Square Garden.

A source familiar with Rose's condition told ESPNChicago.com's Nick Friedell that Rose has been bothered by knee soreness since his return to the floor Saturday night in an exhibition victory over Brazil in Chicago and requested the extra time to recover. But Team USA officials, to this point, have downplayed concerns about Rose's status.




yah....82 games and 3 rounds of playoffs- he should be FINE! the Bulls are gonna be awesome- better than the Cavs and Love, LeBron, Kyrie and a host of good support players

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Haters gonna hate! Since he had the NERVE to leave the Heat not a day has seemingly gone by where you have not trashed him or the Cavs. And you say it doesn't bother you that he went back home. Well I call total on that. Because had he not left the Heat NO WAY IN HELL would you be badmouthing him. Enjoy!

Yeah, some Heat fans are not taking this well.

But, they haven't burned any jerseys yet .

The thing I find HILARIOUS,is that they act surprised.

Lebron is like a cheating husband.

He leaves his first love for his side chick.

But, his side chick gets all piss and vinegar when he does the same thing to her a few years later

If he would abandon the City where he walks on water, he wouldn't think twice about jilting Miami.

...and clearly he didn't