tofficial Cavs thread

[WiggyRuss]

i mean the memphis deal is another great example

Cavs took on teh salaries of Ellington and Speights to let the Griz get under the salary cap

the Cavs get a lotto pick from the Griz...that is protected from transferring until it is not 15-30 (or 1-5)




the Cavs did a lot of that- its why they had multiple 1st rounders every draft and are scheduled to have 3 1st rounders this upcoming draft (soon to be 2 once the Love deal goes through)


renting out your cap space- and paying another teams junk to get assets while your team is rebuilding- a plan that OKC used, that the 76ers are currently using

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Derrick Rose sat out his second consecutive day of practice Tuesday to rest his surgically repaired knees but is still scheduled to play for Team USA in its exhibition game Wednesday night against the Dominican Republic at Madison Square Garden.

A source familiar with Rose's condition told ESPNChicago.com's Nick Friedell that Rose has been bothered by knee soreness since his return to the floor Saturday night in an exhibition victory over Brazil in Chicago and requested the extra time to recover. But Team USA officials, to this point, have downplayed concerns about Rose's status.




yah....82 games and 3 rounds of playoffs- he should be FINE! the Bulls are gonna be awesome- better than the Cavs and Love, LeBron, Kyrie and a host of good support players

That was pre-determined. The guy hasn't played many games in the last 2 years. No need to overwork him before International play even begins.

As for the NbA, Games are not played on paper, Russ.

I say the Bulls and Cavs, in that order, will finish #1 and #2.

Chemistry and health will play a huge part in who goes to the finals
But, it's gonna be a fun season.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Derrick Rose sat out his second consecutive day of practice Tuesday to rest his surgically repaired knees but is still scheduled to play for Team USA in its exhibition game Wednesday night against the Dominican Republic at Madison Square Garden.

A source familiar with Rose's condition told ESPNChicago.com's Nick Friedell that Rose has been bothered by knee soreness since his return to the floor Saturday night in an exhibition victory over Brazil in Chicago and requested the extra time to recover. But Team USA officials, to this point, have downplayed concerns about Rose's status.




yah....82 games and 3 rounds of playoffs- he should be FINE! the Bulls are gonna be awesome- better than the Cavs and Love, LeBron, Kyrie and a host of good support players

I don't recall anyone, ever, predicting Rose could or would stay healthy.
It was always if.
We all agree that he misses a ton of games, but you seem to not be considering that a lot of Cavs players also do.

 

[trojanfan12]

[/B]

what he did the last 4 years was try and institute a rebuilding program-

and did waht OKC did- what the 76'ers are doing- maintaining cap flexibility to basically at times "rent" out their cap room to get assets

when the Lakers wanted to save money and cut salary and get rid of Walton? the Cavs had cap space to take him back and got a 1st round pick plus the rights to switch a 1st a rounder- which ended up becoming Zeller and Karasev- 2 guys traded to faciltate the signing of James.

the Haywood deal he just did- its so they have a 10.5M expiring contract next year to get an asset with

the Mo Wililliams Baron Davis deal is the BIGGEST example- they took Barons old broken down body and TONS AND TONS AND TONS of salary in order to get the Clips lotto pick- (which ended up being Kyrie)

just because the Cavs were not over the cap the last few years does not mean that Gilbert was not using his sizable wallet to leverage moves

You and LTCF have maintained that Gilbert willingly spends "year after year after year". Dan Gilbert, in his letter to Cavs fans, promised that the Cavs would win a championship before Lebron did.

In order to do that, he was going to have to go after top FA's and spend a lot of money. Instead, he chose to operate on the cheap, not go after top FA's (or if he did, he didn't land any) and collect welfare checks from the NBA.

If you now want to claim that he was "re-building", that's fine. But don't ignore the fact that you said that he has been willing to spend "year after year after year" and that he didn't follow through on his promise to Cavs fans.

There is no way around it, you talk about how much money he has and how he can "buy and sell the Buss family many times over", yet for the past 4 years when he has had the opportunity to put his money where his mouth is, he hasn't done it. If he had, the Cavs record for the past 4 years would reflect that and he might have actually fulfilled his promise.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

i mean the memphis deal is another great example

Cavs took on teh salaries of Ellington and Speights to let the Griz get under the salary cap

the Cavs get a lotto pick from the Griz...that is protected from transferring until it is not 15-30 (or 1-5)




the Cavs did a lot of that- its why they had multiple 1st rounders every draft and are scheduled to have 3 1st rounders this upcoming draft (soon to be 2 once the Love deal goes through)


renting out your cap space- and paying another teams junk to get assets while your team is rebuilding- a plan that OKC used, that the 76ers are currently using

Did you see that they are gonna take Amare's deal close to the deadline?

That means the Knicks will be able to bring in a big name.

Rondo?

 

[WiggyRuss]

You and LTCF have maintained that Gilbert willingly spends "year after year after year". Dan Gilbert, in his letter to Cavs fans, promised that the Cavs would win a championship before Lebron did.

In order to do that, he was going to have to go after top FA's and spend a lot of money. Instead, he chose to operate on the cheap, not go after top FA's (or if he did, he didn't land any) and collect welfare checks from the NBA.

If you now want to claim that he was "re-building", that's fine. But don't ignore the fact that you said that he has been willing to spend "year after year after year" and that he didn't follow through on his promise to Cavs fans.

There is no way around it, you talk about how much money he has and how he can "buy and sell the Buss family many times over", yet for the past 4 years when he has had the opportunity to put him money where his mouth is, he hasn't done it. If he had, the Cavs record for the past 4 years would reflect that and he might have actually fulfilled his promise.

I am telling you HE HAS DONE IT


taking on Luke Waltons terrible salary to get draft considerations

taking on Baron Davis terrible salary to get draft considerations

taking on the salaries of Ellington/Speights to get draft considerations

taking on the contract of Haywood in order to make an even BIGGER costly move next offseason when his amnesty contract of 2 million jumps to the team option of 10.5 million (vouidable) and trading that for an asset

Trading Andrew Bynums voidable contract to take on millions of Dengs deal for the rest of the year




Gilbert HAS CLEARLY spent in ways that are smart for a rebuilding team to spend--- in order to hoard assets in case---- a player that is disgruntled with his current situation wants to get out- that they have the assets to execute such a deal....such as happened for Harden, Howard, Garnett, and NOW?

KEVIN FREAKING LOVE 26 and 12 baby



If you think for one minute that Gilbert was not ponying up major dollars in order to garner extra picks and assets and take on OTHER teams problems in order to steal their draft choices (like he did from the Lakers with Walton) then you have not been paying attention and dont understand the strategy that teams like OKC put into effect, like the 76ers are currently putting into play

 

[WiggyRuss]

Did you see that they are gonna take Amare's deal close to the deadline?

That means the Knicks will be able to bring in a big name.

Rondo?

who is going to take Amare's deal? the Cavs????? I couldnt possibly thinkof a way they could get 20+M in K's to balance out...

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

who is going to take Amare's deal? the Cavs????? I couldnt possibly thinkof a way they could get 20+M in K's to balance out...

The 76ers

What happens if the 76ers don’t meet the minimum at the trade deadline? They would be required to pay their existing roster the shortfall on a schedule agreed to by the Players’ Association. So if the 76ers don’t meet the minimum, their existing guys get bonuses and the team gets to defer paying it until the end of the season.

What’s far more likely is that the long rumored Amar’e Stoudemire to Philadelphia deal gets done at the deadline. The Sixers take on Stoudemire’s $23 million salary cap number, which pushes them way over the minimum. They would only owe him roughly 30 percent of his remaining contract, so they’d end up paying him $7 million in cash and likely extract a draft pick or a rookie scale player for their troubles. Flexibility in the NBA is currency – both figuratively and literally. The 76ers will likely meet the floor; they just are not incentivized in any way to do it before the trade deadline.

 

[WiggyRuss]

its the same thing Boston is doing right now

they might not have spent a ton of money on a huge free agent

but they took Marcus Thorntons deal from the Cavs in the Jack 3 way deal- and ended up getting Zeller and a 1st rounder for their trouble- to basically rent out their cap room


its the smart things franchises do when they rebuild


hell even the Lakers did it to a certain extent in getting a 1st round pick and Lin from the Rockets since the Rockets wanted rid of Lin to pursue Bosh



the shit is chess- not checkers- and there are more ways to spend money then on mediocre free agents that will do nothing but get you a couple extra wins and the 8 seed

 

[WiggyRuss]

The 76ers

What happens if the 76ers don’t meet the minimum at the trade deadline? They would be required to pay their existing roster the shortfall on a schedule agreed to by the Players’ Association. So if the 76ers don’t meet the minimum, their existing guys get bonuses and the team gets to defer paying it until the end of the season.

What’s far more likely is that the long rumored Amar’e Stoudemire to Philadelphia deal gets done at the deadline. The Sixers take on Stoudemire’s $23 million salary cap number, which pushes them way over the minimum. They would only owe him roughly 30 percent of his remaining contract, so they’d end up paying him $7 million in cash and likely extract a draft pick or a rookie scale player for their troubles. Flexibility in the NBA is currency – both figuratively and literally. The 76ers will likely meet the floor; they just are not incentivized in any way to do it before the trade deadline.

the thing is- i just dont see the assets the Knicks have to tie to Amare to get a team to take him

imean- maybe first round picksin the WAAAAAY future, but isnt the earliest tradeable pick thy have like 2018or something???



Hardaway and Shump i guess are decent young players- but definitely not enough for a team to take Amare off their hands.....

 

[trojanfan12]

I am telling you HE HAS DONE IT


taking on Luke Waltons terrible salary to get draft considerations

taking on Baron Davis terrible salary to get draft considerations

taking on the salaries of Ellington/Speights to get draft considerations

taking on the contract of Haywood in order to make an even BIGGER costly move next offseason when his amnesty contract of 2 million jumps to the team option of 10.5 million (vouidable) and trading that for an asset

Trading Andrew Bynums voidable contract to take on millions of Dengs deal for the rest of the year




Gilbert HAS CLEARLY spent in ways that are smart for a rebuilding team to spend--- in order to hoard assets in case---- a player that is disgruntled with his current situation wants to get out- that they have the assets to execute such a deal....such as happened for Harden, Howard, Garnett, and NOW?

KEVIN FREAKING LOVE 26 and 12 baby



If you think for one minute that Gilbert was not ponying up major dollars in order to garner extra picks and assets and take on OTHER teams problems in order to steal their draft choices (like he did from the Lakers with Walton) then you have not been paying attention and dont understand the strategy that teams like OKC put into effect, like the 76ers are currently putting into play

Gilbert has NOT done it. Taking on expiring contracts, while collecting welfare checks and draft picks is NOT spending "year after year after year".

If Gilbert was truly spending and was truly interested in fulfilling his promise of getting the Cavs a title before Lebron got one. He would have been spending to put top FA's on the Cavs so that the Cavs could beat Miami and Lebron. He didn't do that.

Instead, he chose to try and stay under the cap and gather draft picks. Now, Lebron comes back and he's suddenly willing to spend money.

You can try to paint it differently all that you want, but his record over the past 4 years says different.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

the thing is- i just dont see the assets the Knicks have to tie to Amare to get a team to take him

imean- maybe first round picksin the WAAAAAY future, but isnt the earliest tradeable pick thy have like 2018or something???



Hardaway and Shump i guess are decent young players- but definitely not enough for a team to take Amare off their hands.....

Philly is different.

They need his cap # to get above the minimum.

They are not looking to pay him 23mil, nor do they want to dole out tens of millions in bonuses to scrubs.

So, if they take him at the deadline, his 23mil counts against there cap. But, they will only owe him 7 million.

It's simple mathematics.

Pay Amare 7 or pay a bunch of broken guys, WNBA d-leaguers a huge bonus.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Gilbert has NOT done it. Taking on expiring contracts, while collecting welfare checks and draft picks is NOT spending "year after year after year".

If Gilbert was truly spending and was truly interested in fulfilling his promise of getting the Cavs a title before Lebron got one. He would have been spending to put top FA's on the Cavs so that the Cavs could beat Miami and Lebron. He didn't do that.

Instead, he chose to try and stay under the cap and gather draft picks. Now, Lebron comes back and he's suddenly willing to spend money.

You can try to paint it differently all that you want, but his record over the past 4 years says different.

so your saying that taking on 35 million of excess Baron Davis when he is broken down in order to get the Clippers draft pick is not spending?


so your saying that taking Luke Waltons deal and about 10M in money owed to at best a 10th guy in order to get a Lakers 1st rounder, and the right to switch a pick is not spending?

so your saying that taking on Speights and Ellington in order to get a 1st rounder from Memphis to get them under the cap is not spending?

so your saying that taking on Haywoods contract even though he didnt play last year- in order to use it and the 10.5M player option is not spending?



I am sorry

I VEHEMENTLY disagree with you. Gilbert spent a TON of money in order to boost the Cavs rebuilding efforts and basically PAID other teams bad contracts in order to get their draft picks


It is an extremely smart and well thought out strategy that worked to PERFECTION in OKC.

The Cavs nailed it ot the point where they had plenty of assets to surround Love, LeBronand Kyrie wieht DESPITE giving up Karasev, Zeller, 1st rounder in order to make cap space for James and Miller




IF you dont think that is spending to make your team better I am at a loss for words

 

[WiggyRuss]

Philly is different.

They need his cap # to get above the minimum.

They are not looking to pay him 23mil, nor do they want to dole out tens of millions in bonuses to scrubs.

So, if they take him at the deadline, his 23mil counts against there cap. But, they will only owe him 7 million.

It's simple mathematics.

Pay Amare 7 or pay a bunch of broken guys, WNBA d-leaguers a huge bonus.

i see what you are saying...they appease the players associsation, league rules etc....and just have to pay a prorated share of it anyway since hes not even there teh whole year, but the K will count as if it did....

actually a good way to save some cash.....But it if was Gilbert hed rent that cap space out to another team for and take their crap for an asset.....

 

[trojanfan12]

so your saying that taking on 35 million of excess Baron Davis when he is broken down in order to get the Clippers draft pick is not spending?


so your saying that taking Luke Waltons deal and about 10M in money owed to at best a 10th guy in order to get a Lakers 1st rounder, and the right to switch a pick is not spending?

so your saying that taking on Speights and Ellington in order to get a 1st rounder from Memphis to get them under the cap is not spending?

so your saying that taking on Haywoods contract even though he didnt play last year- in order to use it and the 10.5M player option is not spending?



I am sorry

I VEHEMENTLY disagree with you. Gilbert spent a TON of money in order to boost the Cavs rebuilding efforts and basically PAID other teams bad contracts in order to get their draft picks


It is an extremely smart and well thought out strategy that worked to PERFECTION in OKC.

The Cavs nailed it ot the point where they had plenty of assets to surround Love, LeBronand Kyrie wieht DESPITE giving up Karasev, Zeller, 1st rounder in order to make cap space for James and Miller




IF you dont think that is spending to make your team better I am at a loss for words

I don't care if you agree or not. He has not spent the money to do what he said he was going to do when Lebron left and he has no done what you claim.

Quit trying to deflect to what he REALLY has done. I'm talking about what he said he would do and what you claim that he's been doing.

How many top FA's did land over the past 4 years?

How many top FA's did he even bid on over the past 4 years?

How much has he spent in luxury tax over the past 4 years?

How much has he collected in welfare over the past 4 years?

He was one of the main one's who cried to the league that it wasn't fair that big market teams can spend more and pushed for the current CBA.

He was one of the main one's who cried because the Lakers made a great deal for CP3 that lowered their salary and improved the team because it cut into his welfare check.

Spin it how you want, but he promised one thing and did the exact opposite. Had he done what he said he was going to do, he wouldn't have been taking on expiring contracts.

 

[trojanfan12]

its the same thing Boston is doing right now

they might not have spent a ton of money on a huge free agent

but they took Marcus Thorntons deal from the Cavs in the Jack 3 way deal- and ended up getting Zeller and a 1st rounder for their trouble- to basically rent out their cap room


its the smart things franchises do when they rebuild


hell even the Lakers did it to a certain extent in getting a 1st round pick and Lin from the Rockets since the Rockets wanted rid of Lin to pursue Bosh



the shit is chess- not checkers- and there are more ways to spend money then on mediocre free agents that will do nothing but get you a couple extra wins and the 8 seed

The difference is that the Celtics and Lakers have said that is what they are doing. Neither front office has been promising championships right away like Gilbert did.

Ainge has made it clear that he is collecting picks to try and build through the draft and maybe trade for other players.

Mitch Kupchak has preached patience and said that the Lakers are signing players to cap friendly deals to preserve future cap flexibility and pick up what assets/draft picks that they can.

Dan Gilbert said that he was going to make sure that the Cavs won a title before Lebron did.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The difference is that the Celtics and Lakers have said that is what they are doing. Neither front office has been promising championships right away like Gilbert did.

Ainge has made it clear that he is collecting picks to try and build through the draft and maybe trade for other players.

Mitch Kupchak has preached patience and said that the Lakers are signing players to cap friendly deals to preserve future cap flexibility and pick up what assets/draft picks that they can.

Dan Gilbert said that he was going to make sure that the Cavs won a title before Lebron did.

O i see...

its only a true strategy if you SAY what you are doing.....cmon man.

 

[WiggyRuss]

with Derek Rose experiencing knee soreness after a practice here or there with the US team....

how is this guy gonna play 80 and get 3 rounds of the playoffs to the ECF?

The road to the Finals for the Cavs is just too wide open and before the weekend is upon us, they should make their deal with the Twolves and start getting the full team together


after that its just a small move here or there- or possibly a medium sized move for a center....we shall see..should be prety darn interesting though



i think the Cavs had 2 games on national tv last year


this year

29

most in the league

 

[WiggyRuss]

In order to be a big star making a ton of money in endorsements you dont need to be in LA or Boston or chicago anymore

KEvin Durant is about to get a 240M dollar deal from Under Armour in Oklahoma city- not even a top 30 market

LeBron James is undoubtedly the most popular - and he is in Cleveland- just like it was before he left-

their is League Pass now- tons of teams are on national tv. - the new CBA- its a different league

one does not need to play in Boston or LA in order to have a national profile and cash in -

between that and the new CBA a lot is changing out there that certain teams are going to need to get used to

 

[lakersrule]

In order to be a big star making a ton of money in endorsements you dont need to be in LA or Boston or chicago anymore

KEvin Durant is about to get a 240M dollar deal from Under Armour in Oklahoma city- not even a top 30 market

LeBron James is undoubtedly the most popular - and he is in Cleveland- just like it was before he left-

their is League Pass now- tons of teams are on national tv. - the new CBA- its a different league

one does not need to play in Boston or LA in order to have a national profile and cash in -

between that and the new CBA a lot is changing out there that certain teams are going to need to get used to

I agree you don't have to be in a big market anymore, but it does gets amplified when on the Lakers. They are the most popular team in the world.