tOfficial "2014 LeBron James" Superthread

[Robotech]

When he retires, theres no doubt he'll be ranked somewhere in everyone's top all time players.
Since the reasoning for the list is subjective, there is no right or wrong.


But, if he doesn't win in Cleveland, and soon, it is a huge strike against him.
He bolted a team who he never missed playing in the Finals with, to what he is perceiving is a better roster.
Almost any and every player wants to play with him....he can basically hand pick top FA, and then fill the roster with veteran players to compliment his game.
He'll have that blend of youth and veterans which was never obtainable in Miami.

He's starting this process when it's never been easier to make the Finals in the EC.

I think that will be part of his legacy, too. He's a great teammate and guys liked playing with him.

If he doesn't win in Cleveland, he'll just be part of the Cleveland Sports Curse, so I don't think it will be as huge of a strike against him as you might think.

Also, am I understanding you correctly that you think he will have a better team in Cleveland than in Miami? If so, then this has to be the right move for him, right? He gets to go back home where his heart is, and, he'll end up with a better team (not right now, but eventually). The only problem is that the Cavs will take some time to develop and this year's and next year's version of the Cavs probably would not have been better than the 2014 and 2015 Heat had LeBron stayed.

 

[Robotech]

He never moved away. He just had another house in Miami.
He has always remained very active in the community.

If he wins a championship there, he will have delivered on the goals in his letter ( marketing campaign).
At that point, he and Nike can sit down and create a new strategy.

True. I heard on the radio that he spends the offseason in Ohio. But what does that tell you? It tells you that he really loves Ohio. I've never met anybody who left Ohio and then went back to Ohio. I have friends and family who are from there. I myself lived in Ohio for sometime, and I have no plans of ever going back.

If he really loves Ohio, he's not gonna want to break the hearts of his Ohio fans again.

 

[Inimical]

What would his legacy be if he never wins one title for north east ohio?

I think that as far as being loyal and a winner it would be incredibly tainted. He only spent 4 years in Miami and the first chance to leave he had after losing, he did so. If he never wins another titles how do Miami fans view him? A Miami all time great? Do you retire his Jersey? After all he won with you guys, not Cleveland. And as for Cleveland? Its just a mess.

 

[Inimical]

Now before admins take me to the superthread, i think this stands on its own.

Also, before anyone goes, Kobe this or Jordan that, this thread is not about them. As was the case with Bryant and Jordan, its time for Lebron to have his own spotlight in the individual legacy category. So for your amusement...



==================================================================


So where we at with Lebrons legacy anyway?


Here we had this highly touted kid, from AKRON, OHIO. From where? Alright whatever. Hes going to be the next what? Hes good enough to be the next who? Alright lets take a look at this kid. Hes pretty good. When he first came into the league for such a young cat he put up some good numbers. Nothing special though. How many rooks have done that and been long forgotten since? Alright. So he started to grow into a man, and his physical gifts became apparent. He transformed into a physical specimen, and he used it to the fullest. Then the basketball IQ came along and watch out! This kid can score, rebound, and pass? Not bad, not bad. He became a god in Cleveland. I mean an absolute sports god. Everyone in Ohio i can imagine wanted to see Lebron. Lebron helped put the NBA back on the Pop culture map. He was awe inspiring and polarizing, as many great talents are. He was also tremendous dunker, and we all love our tremendous dunks.

So he has it all, fame, money, talent. But i think it all started to weight on him. Did anybody read the letter he wrote in SI? He wanted out of Cleveland. He made that abundantly clear.

"Remember when I was sitting up there at the Boys & Girls Club in 2010? I was thinking, This is really tough. I could feel it. I was leaving something I had spent a long time creating. If I had to do it all over again, I’d obviously do things differently, but I’d still have left."

I think the pressure got to Lebron to be honest. And he ran. And i think he knows he ran. But who hasn't right? He was a young kid. I don't blame him. I always thought the reason he did "The decision" on live TV was because he was young and dumb. Just a dumb young kid. A kid who was a millionaire, the "KING", and could do no wrong. Everyone loved him. I mean they called him "King James" for shitfucks sake. Isn't funny though, how love can make a person run?

If he would have won 1 title in Cleveland it would have been worth the 6 he promised for Miami. So what was his decision? He ran to where he could win the quickest and easiest way. The Heat at the time where really the only place he could have done so with roster make ups around the league at the time. He turned his back on that city. On that state. The people that loved him and worshiped him. The city of Cleveland especially loved him. It devastated the local economy when he left. He didn't just leave, the left dust and ashes in his wake. Talk about pressure. He choose winning over loyalty. I know its a business, and he has his rights. But WHO forced his hand? Who made him make his "Decision".

Obviously for Lebron James, it was not about commitment. It wasn't about commitment for the city of Cleveland, and it wasn't about commitment for the city of Miami. He obviously was really confused, by his
"Decisions" and as his "Letter" clearly indicates.

His situation is most unique i must say. He had it all already, and in the city he could most closely call home, but he needed more.

The stories about how much Cleveland loved Lebron are legendary. The one i always remember are how people FLYING OVER THE CITY could see the huge banners that covered entire skyscrapers with the words

"WITNESS"

What more can i say?

Millions upon millions were lost.

So Lebron was right....

"People there have seen me grow up. I sometimes feel like I’m their son. Their passion can be overwhelming. But it drives me. I want to give them hope when I can. I want to inspire them when I can. My relationship with Northeast Ohio is bigger than basketball. I didn’t realize that four years ago. I do now."


I think he was disappointed in himself. I also think he felt the disappointment from the people of Ohio. In some strange way maybe he just didn't want to disappoint them anymore eh? He felt the pressure and needed to win. I dont think it was the pressure of being an all time great. No not at all. How many times does Lebron have to prove to the world? The "Decision", this letter, his lack of wanting to step up to the MOMENT so that we may all WITNESS. It was an unfair pressure of being so beloved, so highly touted, so talented, that it became almost mythical.


In an interview before the end of the season of 2009-10 he said,

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

James also was asked what he could say to the people in Cleveland, and it was noteworthy that he used the past tense in saying "We had a great time together."

Today? Today hes a proven winner. But backed by what? Proven that he needs to win with 2 other Superstars? He had a much shitter roster in Cleveland, that much is certain. But his rosters in Miami were not even on the same planet. So it goes both ways.

When he left Cleveland he was nothing more then a proven loser. Its harsh i know, but it fits enough for me. Todays scenarios look like he can lure, rather then be lured. Promise, rather then be promised. In fact, in some ways Lebron has more power then ever in Cleveland. And he owes that to Miami.



We are not going to compare him to the greats. He belongs in the talent/Numbers comparison. Sure. But the winning is what puts you up with the all timers. How many greats played the game in the past, yesteryear, and present that we simply forget? I mean if Charles Barkley wasn't on TV i would have forgotten the mutherfucker if not for the occasional Phoenix fan and drunken all time great ramblings im sure we all have been a part of. Besides his career is far from over.

I dont think Lebron James wants to be the greatest of all time. I dont think that at all. He just doesnt show me he does. I still dont understand why he left Miami. I thought u wanted to win James? Now you want to do whats right? Is that really what this is all about? I really dont know what to make of "decision 2.0". Now hes done to Miami what he did to Cleveland. But in the end, in peoples eyes the NBA world over, "Home" is much more important then "Home away from home".

The saddest part about all this is that Lebrons legacy is not about winning. Its not about losing. Its not about stats. Its not about titles. Its not even about being an all time great.

Its about his mentality.

And that part his character has been ravaged by many people far and wide.

Cause when the going gets tough, Lebron gets............ the fuck outta there?

Lebrons only chance at redemption is us seeing a Lebron we have never seen before.

And im not sure that will ever happen.

But one thing is for certain, 1 title in Cleveland will mean more then any other title in NBA history in my eyes.

Goodluck Cleveland!

Btw i contributed to the board and spent quiet a bit of time on this for it to be jumbled into a mess of a thread. I have never seen so many threads about lebron because who the fuck is going to go through all 125 pages of this shit? SMH. Rather it have been put in Fouled out so it could have its own thread among the Savages. LOL. Its all good though, now i know not to fucking try!

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I think that will be part of his legacy, too. He's a great teammate and guys liked playing with him.

If he doesn't win in Cleveland, he'll just be part of the Cleveland Sports Curse, so I don't think it will be as huge of a strike against him as you might think.

Also, am I understanding you correctly that you think he will have a better team in Cleveland than in Miami? If so, then this has to be the right move for him, right? He gets to go back home where his heart is, and, he'll end up with a better team (not right now, but eventually). The only problem is that the Cavs will take some time to develop and this year's and next year's version of the Cavs probably would not have been better than the 2014 and 2015 Heat had LeBron stayed.

Honestly, as a FA, he can make any move he wants, I just don't believe the marketing campaign.
As far as where he'd have the better team, the answer is wherever he chooses to play, because he is just that good right now, combined with the others who will try to flock to play with him.

I think the ONLY decision he really had to weigh was playing with Wade vs Kyrie.


If James KNEW he HAD to go back, then there was no need for more then 1 day of F.A.
Really none. He could have just opted out and told Riley 'thanks for the 4 years but I've already talked this over with my wife and family and we feel the need to try to win one for Ohio more than anything else".


Anytime you weigh your OPTIONS, then you are firmly committed to nothing.
That's what he did, correct?

 

[Robotech]

Honestly, as a FA, he can make any move he wants, I just don't believe the marketing campaign.
As far as where he'd have the better team, the answer is wherever he chooses to play, because he is just that good right now, combined with the others who will try to flock to play with him.

I think the ONLY decision he really had to weigh was playing with Wade vs Kyrie.


If James KNEW he HAD to go back, then there was no need for more then 1 day of F.A.
Really none. He could have just opted out and told Riley 'thanks for the 4 years but I've already talked this over with my wife and family and we feel the need to try to win one for Ohio more than anything else".


Anytime you weigh your OPTIONS, then you are firmly committed to nothing.
That's what he did, correct?

He weighed his options and chose to go home. He apparently also had to take time to talk to his family. But now that he's chosen to go back to the Cavs, I have a hard time seeing him leave again. Even if he doesn't really love Ohio, it would hurt his image greatly if he were to leave again.

 

[bksballer89]

Someone on NBATV just made a good point. Why not sign a 4 yr deal with opt out after the 2 years?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Someone on NBATV just made a good point. Why not sign a 4 yr deal with opt out after the 2 years?

I've kept trying to think of any reason for the opt out after next year...
And the only possible legit reason I can think of is that he might sign a 1 year discounted deal so the a Cavs can really try to stack the deck before be signs the bigger max deal the following year.

Don't think for a minute that he is just trying to win " one for Ohio".
He's trying to catch/ pass Jordan.

 

[Robotech]

I've kept trying to think of any reason for the opt out after next year...
And the only possible legit reason I can think of is that he might sign a 1 year discounted deal so the a Cavs can really try to stack the deck before be signs the bigger max deal the following year.

Don't think for a minute that he is just trying to win " one for Ohio".
He's trying to catch/ pass Jordan.

There's no question that he wants to win many more titles.

 

[gordontrue]

LeBron isn't leaving CLE anytime soon barring some huge unforseen event going down. To me there are a few reasons for LeBron's contract structure...

1) Like Turnup said... the flexibility is there for him to help out in the acquisition of a big free agent next year. Doesn't mean he will. But he is the option if he sees an opportunity that he really likes.

2) It ensures that LeBron keeps the leverage instead of Gilbert. If LeBron signs a 4 year deal... Gilbert has him. Gilbert can be as big of a jerk as he wants, he can take the team in any direction he wants, make any money saving moves he wants... and LeBron is stuck. This contract ensures that Gilbert will listen to any input James might have. I'm not saying LeBron will leave if he doesn't like something Gilbert does.... I'm saying that he will use the leverage to make sure Gilbert doesn't.



The bottom line is that more flexibility is good and won't hurt anything. The only trade-off is security... but LeBron is one of a very few players (I'd say just him and maybe Durant) that have enough security outside of a long-term contract to be able to safely make the trade-off.

 

[Robotech]

LeBron isn't leaving CLE anytime soon barring some huge unforseen event going down. To me there are a few reasons for LeBron's contract structure...

1) Like Turnup said... the flexibility is there for him to help out in the acquisition of a big free agent next year. Doesn't mean he will. But he is the option if he sees an opportunity that he really likes.

2) It ensures that LeBron keeps the leverage instead of Gilbert. If LeBron signs a 4 year deal... Gilbert has him. Gilbert can be as big of a jerk as he wants, he can take the team in any direction he wants, make any money saving moves he wants... and LeBron is stuck. This contract ensures that Gilbert will listen to any input James might have. I'm not saying LeBron will leave if he doesn't like something Gilbert does.... I'm saying that he will use the leverage to make sure Gilbert doesn't.



The bottom line is that more flexibility is good and won't hurt anything. The only trade-off is security... but LeBron is one of a very few players (I'd say just him and maybe Durant) that have enough security outside of a long-term contract to be able to safely make the trade-off.

Good points. You certainly want to keep the leverage when you're dealing with a jerk like Gilbert.

 

[Jims_Doors]

Why wasnt there a Zero titles option. Lets be honest here, Kyrie and Lebron is a hell of a 1-2 punch, and Varejao is a hell of a D presence. There is no reason they shouldnt be able to compete for the ECF. But Lebron will not win with a hell of a 1-2 punch, he will wait for someone who wants to play with Lebron so he can go farther. Now far as 1-2 punches go? Well Kobe/Shaq won titles without a 3rd superstar.

Just sayin.

Kyrie's now considered a superstar? On which planet?

Last season he avg. (rounded up) 21pts 6 assists and 4 boards. That ranks 14th, 14th and 141st in the league.

Plus you insinuating that Bosh was considered a superstar in Miami is funny. In both Finals that Miami won his stats in those Finals were (against Spurs) 12pts 9 boards 2 assists and 2 blocks (didn't score in game 7)..... Against OKC 15, 9, 0 and 1.

Lamar Odom's stats against the Magic in 09......13, 8, 1 and 1. Was he considered a superstar?

James led both championship teams (entire postseason) in points, rebounds assists and steals. But to you he needs 3 superstars when in fact he never played with one until Wade. Calling Bosh a superstar with those numbers is laughable.

 

[Jims_Doors]

Honestly, as a FA, he can make any move he wants, I just don't believe the marketing campaign.
As far as where he'd have the better team, the answer is wherever he chooses to play, because he is just that good right now, combined with the others who will try to flock to play with him.

I think the ONLY decision he really had to weigh was playing with Wade vs Kyrie.


If James KNEW he HAD to go back, then there was no need for more then 1 day of F.A.
Really none. He could have just opted out and told Riley 'thanks for the 4 years but I've already talked this over with my wife and family and we feel the need to try to win one for Ohio more than anything else".


Anytime you weigh your OPTIONS, then you are firmly committed to nothing.
That's what he did, correct?

I'll ask you again Turnup since you say homesick is just an excuse to go play with a so-called "better team"

So you really think that if James didn't live his entire life in nearby Akron (as did his wife).... he still would have chosen to leave the Heat to go to a 33 win Cavs team? A team with a rookie head coach who's never held any title of coach, at any level, in the United States?

 

[Inimical]

Kyrie's now considered a superstar? On which planet?

Last season he avg. (rounded up) 21pts 6 assists and 4 boards. That ranks 14th, 14th and 141st in the league.

Plus you insinuating that Bosh was considered a superstar in Miami is funny. In both Finals that Miami won his stats in those Finals were (against Spurs) 12pts 9 boards 2 assists and 2 blocks (didn't score in game 7)..... Against OKC 15, 9, 0 and 1.

Lamar Odom's stats against the Magic in 09......13, 8, 1 and 1. Was he considered a superstar?

James led both championship teams (entire postseason) in points, rebounds assists and steals. But to you he needs 3 superstars when in fact he never played with one until Wade. Calling Bosh a superstar with those numbers is laughable.

Woa okay i stand corrected. They arent superstars. Fuck those max contracts and hype.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I'll ask you again Turnup since you say homesick is just an excuse to go play with a so-called "better team"

So you really think that if James didn't live his entire life in nearby Akron (as did his wife).... he still would have chosen to leave the Heat to go to a 33 win Cavs team? A team with a rookie head coach who's never held any title of coach, at any level, in the United States?

If this is a yes or no question then the answer is yes.

My reasons:
The 33 wins means nothing. Why bring it up?
That was before they won the rights to Wiggins which might turn into Love.
Putting James on any roster he would consider in the East immediately makes them the favorite.
He knows players like Miller, Allen will join him.


I know nothing about the coach, but his resume is quite impressive.
What can he really do wrong? And if he did he would be replaced.
So really he is no factor.


So let me ask you, if he was THAT homesick,
why not just say so the day you opt out instead of holding up the movements of so many teams and other players?

 

[Jims_Doors]

If this is a yes or no question then the answer is yes.

My reasons:
The 33 wins means nothing. Why bring it up?
That was before they won the rights to Wiggins which might turn into Love.
Putting James on any roster he would consider in the East immediately makes them the favorite.
He knows players like Miller, Allen will join him.


I know nothing about the coach, but his resume is quite impressive.
What can he really do wrong? And if he did he would be replaced.
So really he is no factor.


So let me ask you, if he was THAT homesick,
why not just say so the day you opt out instead of holding up the movements of so many teams and other players?

I bring it up because when's the last time the best payer on the planet chose to play for a team that's been to 1 finals, just came off a 33 win season, 2 players w/o looking at the roster (Gibson and Varajeo) that has playoff experience and a rookie head coach that has no U.S credentials when it comes to coaching.

He has no idea if Allen and Miller are gong to go there. Besides Allen's almost 40yrs old and Miller's very injury prone. That sounds promising enough to go back? Wiggins could very easily be a bust as he could be a star. Nothings guaranteed.

You brought up homesick first in a previous post, not me. All I'm saying is that there is no way in hell he chooses the Cavs if he had no ties there whatsoever. He stays in Miami or goes somewhere that has at least some playoff experience and a head coach that knows the league and players.

Because maybe he hadn't made up his mind yet??

 

[bksballer89]

His mind was made up. Cavs did nothing after he opted out that should've changed his mind if Miami was the front runner

 

[gordontrue]

He always knew he was going back to Cleveland.

He didn't know it would be this off-season until Wednesday night... about 36 hours before he officially announced it. He used those hours to write (with Jenkins) an explanation of his decision and to inform the Heat of his intentions.


Those 36 hours had zero effect on the Heat's FA doings.

LeBron clearly wrestled over the decision of Heat vs Spurs.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I bring it up because when's the last time the best payer on the planet chose to play for a team that's been to 1 finals, just came off a 33 win season, 2 players w/o looking at the roster (Gibson and Varajeo) that has playoff experience and a rookie head coach that has no U.S credentials when it comes to coaching.

He has no idea if Allen and Miller are gong to go there. Besides Allen's almost 40yrs old and Miller's very injury prone. That sounds promising enough to go back? Wiggins could very easily be a bust as he could be a star. Nothings guaranteed.

You brought up homesick first in a previous post, not me. All I'm saying is that there is no way in hell he chooses the Cavs if he had no ties there whatsoever. He stays in Miami or goes somewhere that has at least some playoff experience and a head coach that knows the league and players.

Because maybe he hadn't made up his mind yet??

I'm not talking specifically Allen/Miller....I'm talking veteran role players like them.
As far as them though, Mikes going if the money's right. He can get 4+ from Ok City.
Allen prob retires, but if he doesn't he's going to the Cavs.

And I agree 100% about he wouldn't go without the ties. Those ties are what's making him the multi millions in this upcoming marketing campaign.


My point in all of this, is that if he didn't feel the Cavs could play for titles NOW, he wouldn't have left a team who can.

Wiggins a bust? What's the chance of that barring major injury? He's been touted as the closest talent to LeBron, since LeBron.


And once again, if the most important thing was being home, then what decision was there ever to be made?

He weighed all of his options and then they decided ( he and Nike) to create this wonderful story.

If the Cavs had the Bucks roster, he wouldn't be homesick in the slightest.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

So James is going to wear his high school #32 for the Cavs now.

Nah....he didn't go back for the marketing campaign.

He just must have forgotten that he could have worn 32 when he was there the first time if it was so important.