My current framing of the MJ vs LeBron debate

[Albuquerque Rams]

We all saw how important Draymond was in 2020 when Curry and Klay were injured and Durant was gone; worst record in the conference.

Again, Klay has inferior metrics to Hornacek and Hawkins, who aren't Hall of Famers. He's not getting in on his own merit just like Frank Ramsey, Satch Sanders and Toni Kukoc. He's getting in because he just happened to be on a good team. Why not lower the standard even further and induct Bruce Bowen and Mario Elie?

You are out of control.

Satch Sanders?

Klay Thompson was all NBA twice and 5 time all star. Draymond Green was a 4 time all star, 8 time all defense team and a DPOY.

Are these HOF resumes with 0 titles?

No, probably not. But they are still very good players.

Hornacek and Hawkins made all star teams once each and had no other significant individual accolades

Those are terrible comparisons.

You either:

Are lying to make your case look stronger

Or don’t know WTF you are talking about.

Either way, really takes the legs out from under you.

All Star games are popularity contests. Put either of those guys in Detroit or Charlotte and there's no way they're making any All Star teams.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

That's How You End The GOAT Debate #shorts

That's How You End The GOAT Debate #shorts #michaeljordan #mj #lebronjames #lebron #goatdebate #nba #nbaedits #nbahighlights All Clips Property of the NBA...

youtube.com

END OF DEBATE …. Jordan is the GOAT .. If I was building a franchise he’s my first pick, yesterday, today, and tomorrow …

 

[tlance]

All Star games are popularity contests. Put either of those guys in Detroit or Charlotte and there's no way they're making any All Star teams.

But you are literally comparing Klay Thompson, an elite 2 way player on a dynasty to guys who had inferior stats on mediocre teams AND didn’t have the defensive chops.

That is just ignorant.

His game isn’t ideally suited to be a number 1, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have done it.

The obvious comp for Klay is Reggie Miller.

And yes, peak Klay is better than peak Reggie. Reggie just didn’t have the spectacular injuries that Klay did that really has limited the 2nd half of his career.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

But you are literally comparing Klay Thompson, an elite 2 way player on a dynasty to guys who had inferior stats on mediocre teams AND didn’t have the defensive chops.

That is just ignorant.

His game isn’t ideally suited to be a number 1, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have done it.

The obvious comp for Klay is Reggie Miller.

And yes, peak Klay is better than peak Reggie. Reggie just didn’t have the spectacular injuries that Klay did that really has limited the 2nd half of his career.

Reggie also has better advance metrics than Klay, much like Hornacek and Hawkins, and was a more consistent playoff performer. Klay has been awful in most of his Finals but got carried to a ring every time.

He's only getting All-Star and HOF votes solely because of who he plays for. Think Hornacek's one season in Philadelphia; that's Klay's entire career if he's in Charlotte or Detroit.

 

[tlance]

Reggie also has better advance metrics than Klay, much like Hornacek and Hawkins, and was a more consistent playoff performer. Klay has been awful in most of his Finals but got carried to a ring every time.

He's only getting All-Star and HOF votes solely because of who he plays for. Think Hornacek's one season in Philadelphia; that's Klay's entire career if he's in Charlotte or Detroit.

Totally wrong

Klay’s playoff stats are fine

19.2 PPG over 158 games and over 40% from 3. Very much in line with regular season stats.

Reggie’s playoff numbers are slightly better, but not by a lot.

And Reggie was never the defender that Klay was.

If pre injury Klay played on a bad team he would have scored a lot more. Like 26+ a game. Just efficiency would have taken a hit.

Dude scored 22 a game with Curry and KD. You are flat wrong.

 

[msgkings322]

But you are literally comparing Klay Thompson, an elite 2 way player on a dynasty to guys who had inferior stats on mediocre teams AND didn’t have the defensive chops.

That is just ignorant.

His game isn’t ideally suited to be a number 1, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have done it.

The obvious comp for Klay is Reggie Miller.

And yes, peak Klay is better than peak Reggie. Reggie just didn’t have the spectacular injuries that Klay did that really has limited the 2nd half of his career.

And Reggie was barely adequate as a defender

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

Totally wrong

Klay’s playoff stats are fine

19.2 PPG over 158 games and over 40% from 3. Very much in line with regular season stats.

Reggie’s playoff numbers are slightly better, but not by a lot.

And Reggie was never the defender that Klay was.

If pre injury Klay played on a bad team he would have scored a lot more. Like 26+ a game. Just efficiency would have taken a hit.

Dude scored 22 a game with Curry and KD. You are flat wrong.

And yet Reggie's advanced metrics are still better. He was more impactful.

Also Klay was never that good od of a man defender. A good team defender maybe but Iguodala was their actual lockdown defender

 

[Think McFly Think]

That's How You End The GOAT Debate #shorts

That's How You End The GOAT Debate #shorts #michaeljordan #mj #lebronjames #lebron #goatdebate #nba #nbaedits #nbahighlights All Clips Property of the NBA...

youtube.com

END OF DEBATE …. Jordan is the GOAT .. If I was building a franchise he’s my first pick, yesterday, today, and tomorrow …

I’ve seen that before, it’s super impressive but this will not end the debate.

It’s not in our nature as human beings to agree 100% on anything, especially sports which are almost exclusively fueled by individual passion.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

Totally wrong

Klay’s playoff stats are fine

19.2 PPG over 158 games and over 40% from 3. Very much in line with regular season stats.

Reggie’s playoff numbers are slightly better, but not by a lot.

And Reggie was never the defender that Klay was.

If pre injury Klay played on a bad team he would have scored a lot more. Like 26+ a game. Just efficiency would have taken a hit.

Dude scored 22 a game with Curry and KD. You are flat wrong.

Postseason PER
Reggie: 19.5
Pre-injury Klay: 14.1

Postseason WS per 48
Reggie: .180
Pre-injury Klay: .090

Postseason BPM
Reggie: 5.0
Pre-injury Klay: 0.7

Postseason Defensive BPM
Reggie: 0.0
Pre-injury Klay: -0.5 (LMFAO)

Yeah, keep telling me how great Klay Thompson is.

 

[msgkings322]

And yet Reggie's advanced metrics are still better. He was more impactful.

Also Klay was never that good od of a man defender. A good team defender maybe but Iguodala was their actual lockdown defender

You know this board is full of posters who watch a lot of basketball and know the game well, right? So it's no place to be a stupid clown like you are being.

 

[tlance]

Postseason PER
Reggie: 19.5
Pre-injury Klay: 14.1

Postseason WS per 48
Reggie: .180
Pre-injury Klay: .090

Postseason BPM
Reggie: 5.0
Pre-injury Klay: 0.7

Postseason Defensive BPM
Reggie: 0.0
Pre-injury Klay: -0.5 (LMFAO)

Yeah, keep telling me how great Klay Thompson is.

You are cherry picking here big time

Klay was a fantastic defender and he always went up against the other team’s best guard.

 

[msgkings322]

Postseason PER
Reggie: 19.5
Pre-injury Klay: 14.1

Postseason WS per 48
Reggie: .180
Pre-injury Klay: .090

Postseason BPM
Reggie: 5.0
Pre-injury Klay: 0.7

Postseason Defensive BPM
Reggie: 0.0
Pre-injury Klay: -0.5 (LMFAO)

Yeah, keep telling me how great Klay Thompson is.

So you've gone from failing to show why Klay would not be a hall of famer on another team to highlighting how in the postseason some other guy did better? I guess you need to find new things to talk about since the rest has been so wrong.

Reggie Miller is in the top 75 players all time. Klay isn't. That doesn't mean he isn't a Hall of Famer.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

So you've gone from failing to show why Klay would not be a hall of famer on another team to highlighting how in the postseason some other guy did better? I guess you need to find new things to talk about since the rest has been so wrong.

Reggie Miller is in the top 75 players all time. Klay isn't. That doesn't mean he isn't a Hall of Famer.

Oh it's not just Reggie. Hornacek, Hawkins and Majerle also have better playoff metrics than Klay. None of those guys are in the Hall of Fame

Klay Thompson is the most overrated player of this generation.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

You are cherry picking here big time

Klay was a fantastic defender and he always went up against the other team’s best guard.

If Klay was truly a lockdown defender, he'd have a positive DBPM regardless of who he's defending. Kawhi also took the other team's best and he has a DBPM of +2.8.

 

[msgkings322]

Oh it's not just Reggie. Hornacek, Hawkins and Majerle also have better playoff metrics than Klay. None of those guys are in the Hall of Fame

Klay Thompson is the most overrated player of this generation.

As has already been shown to you, those other players all had inferior careers in the seasons of basketball they played. It’s not the Hall of Playoff Fame.

Your pronouncements are unsupported and stupid.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

As has already been shown to you, those other players all had inferior careers in the seasons of basketball they played. It’s not the Hall of Playoff Fame.

Your pronouncements are unsupported and stupid.

The point is Klay isn't that good and he's not a star or Hall of Famer based on his own merit.

 

[msgkings322]

The point is Klay isn't that good and he's not a star or Hall of Famer based on his own merit.

The point is actually that he is that good and a definite Hall of famer on his merit. You’re unable to support your claim.

 

[UK Cowboy]

But you are literally comparing Klay Thompson, an elite 2 way player on a dynasty to guys who had inferior stats on mediocre teams AND didn’t have the defensive chops.

That is just ignorant.

His game isn’t ideally suited to be a number 1, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t have done it.

The obvious comp for Klay is Reggie Miller.

And yes, peak Klay is better than peak Reggie. Reggie just didn’t have the spectacular injuries that Klay did that really has limited the 2nd half of his career.

Klay was not better than Reggie Bro...calm down lol. Totally agree that he's a HOFer though

 

[Wamu]

Oh it's not just Reggie. Hornacek, Hawkins and Majerle also have better playoff metrics than Klay. None of those guys are in the Hall of Fame

Klay Thompson is the most overrated player of this generation. <----

What are you smokin'? If it's weed is it indica or sativa?

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

The point is actually that he is that good and a definite Hall of famer on his merit. You’re unable to support your claim.

Nope. He hitched his wagon to someone who actually would make it in on merit, thus making him look better than he actually is.