Those Cheating Ravens!

[NEhomer]

Why should they be able to tell? Why should they even be looking at this? I mean I think Legarrette Blount put it perfectly for the non-QB's when he said "it feels the same way every time". and Matthew Slater said he can't tell the difference. Obviously QB's can as we've seen plenty come out about that. You are really trying to tell me that a running back who's touched an NFL game ball set by the refs 1000 times can't tell yet you expect a guy with 10 career turnovers to be able to? Come on, you have to be able to see what kind of straws you are grasping for here right? This is just getting dumb now.

Why are these guys supposed to become an expert on something that has ZERO effect on their position? I mean your entire premise makes such little sense here. They aren't out there to look for slightly deflated footballs. Even if they felt it felt a bit different, what did they care, you saw how little Belichick even knew about the inflation rules, do you really expect Mario Williams to be the guy who knows more?

You do see how many of these really really really thin lines of thought all have to come together perfectly to make your question have any relevance here.


I would love to see that Sportscenter again too, it was on ESPN a few days after deflategate. I don't keep them all, sorry. But it was interesting. And makes perfect sense as that is the only position who seems to have any care of ball psi.

1) Actually, I've seen nothing come out about that.

2) They must hold onto the ball to not lose possession of it. It's really a stretch to think that they should notice a soft ball if it's really significantly different? Really? Seems rather logical to me.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

1) Actually, I've seen nothing come out about that.

2) They must hold onto the ball to not lose possession of it. It's really a stretch to think that they should notice a soft ball if it's really significantly different? Really? Seems rather logical to me.

Have you been in a cave? Like really, did you not watch anything sports related around this time last year???

Seriously, you are literally saying you never knew Aaron Rodgers likes his inflated up towards the high end? You never knew Brady had talked before about what PSI he liked his footballs at when the media found that quote? you never heard the comments by Young, Theismann, Blake, Tarkenton, Eli, Warner, McNabb, Marino, Leinart... I mean for like a month that was ALL that was on tv and the radio, "what did this QB or that QB like his football to be inflated to?"

And I am not saying it is a stretch that a player wouldn't know or care a couple psi difference. I am saying ACTUAL NFL PLAYERS HAVE BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING THAT. Take it up with Legarrette Blount that after 1000 touches he doesn't know, not me. Have you ever really played the game, a normally inflated football is hard. This isn't playing with a flat football. And most players don't hold the ball in their hand like a QB does, they tuck it to their bodies. Which would go a long way to explaining why ACTUAL NFL PLAYERS HAVE SAID THEY DON'T NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE.



You really can't be honest here can you that you never saw anything about that? It's just beyond belief. And I guess it tells me just how uninformed you are on the situation anyways, never mind.


I always thought one of the most pointless battles was debating someone who's locked in on a belief AND has no clue what he is talking about. Because it doesn't matter they've made an ill informed decision and that is based on feelings rather than facts, and that's not changing.

Enjoy your thread here.

 

[Oldschool739]

Have you been in a cave? Like really, did you not watch anything sports related around this time last year???

Seriously, you are literally saying you never knew Aaron Rodgers likes his inflated up towards the high end? You never knew Brady had talked before about what PSI he liked his footballs at when the media found that quote? you never heard the comments by Young, Theismann, Blake, Tarkenton, Eli, Warner, McNabb, Marino, Leinart... I mean for like a month that was ALL that was on tv and the radio, "what did this QB or that QB like his football to be inflated to?"

And I am not saying it is a stretch that a player wouldn't know or care a couple psi difference. I am saying ACTUAL NFL PLAYERS HAVE BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING THAT. Take it up with Legarrette Blount that after 1000 touches he doesn't know, not me. Have you ever really played the game, a normally inflated football is hard. This isn't playing with a flat football. And most players don't hold the ball in their hand like a QB does, they tuck it to their bodies. Which would go a long way to explaining why ACTUAL NFL PLAYERS HAVE SAID THEY DON'T NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE.



You really can't be honest here can you that you never saw anything about that? It's just beyond belief. And I guess it tells me just how uninformed you are on the situation anyways, never mind.


I always thought one of the most pointless battles was debating someone who's locked in on a belief AND has no clue what he is talking about. Because it doesn't matter they've made an ill informed decision and that is based on feelings rather than facts, and that's not changing.

Enjoy your thread here.

Here is the actual ball Tom wants to use...

 

[NEhomer]

Have you been in a cave? Like really, did you not watch anything sports related around this time last year???

Seriously, you are literally saying you never knew Aaron Rodgers likes his inflated up towards the high end? You never knew Brady had talked before about what PSI he liked his footballs at when the media found that quote? you never heard the comments by Young, Theismann, Blake, Tarkenton, Eli, Warner, McNabb, Marino, Leinart... I mean for like a month that was ALL that was on tv and the radio, "what did this QB or that QB like his football to be inflated to?"

And I am not saying it is a stretch that a player wouldn't know or care a couple psi difference. I am saying ACTUAL NFL PLAYERS HAVE BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING THAT. Take it up with Legarrette Blount that after 1000 touches he doesn't know, not me. Have you ever really played the game, a normally inflated football is hard. This isn't playing with a flat football. And most players don't hold the ball in their hand like a QB does, they tuck it to their bodies. Which would go a long way to explaining why ACTUAL NFL PLAYERS HAVE SAID THEY DON'T NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE.



You really can't be honest here can you that you never saw anything about that? It's just beyond belief. And I guess it tells me just how uninformed you are on the situation anyways, never mind.


I always thought one of the most pointless battles was debating someone who's locked in on a belief AND has no clue what he is talking about. Because it doesn't matter they've made an ill informed decision and that is based on feelings rather than facts, and that's not changing.

Enjoy your thread here.

In your zeal to jump my shit, you've done little more than to make my point. Of course I heard all of those things you spewed off. What I have not heard is an NFL QB say that there's a significant difference between an 11.5psi ball and a 12.5psi ball and that they can readily tell the difference.

That nobody could tell the difference as you point out is precisely what I'm saying. I won't spew off insults like you have because it's not what I do but this notion you're forwarding that only QBs can and should know what an NFL football feels like is what's absurd to me.

This thread has cracked me up because it's the same old double standard by the haters and watching you all squirm is funny. If the Pats had done this illegal practice thing it wouldn't be breaking a rule, it would be cheating. The penalty would be stiffer but all due to this long list of cheating infractions that nobody can list. Even reasonable dudes like dumler toss in shit like teams-are-suspicious-when-they-play-in-Gillette-stadium when he's trying to compile this lengthy list of infractions. That's not an infraction.

The list stands at 2.

The Pats push the limits and regarding deflategate, they went well past pushing limits. They cheated. My comments here are simply mitigating and qualifying the severity and impact which doesn't seem like much. Suppose the Pats were kicking the Colt's asses and then at halftime the balls got re-inflated and the game turned around. The Colts nearly caught up and won. Then we'd have something really significant. For God's sake, they won the Superbowl. The season the Pats got stopped from signal taping they went 18-0 so how much impact could there have been? Suppose the next year they went 10-6 then 8-8 then 5-11. Now we'd really have something.

Previously there could not even be mention of such things or it was PANIC and DEFLECTION by Pats fans but now that the Ravens were only "breaking a rule" and the impact of their infraction is being tossed aside as inconsequential, it just seemed logical to make analogies to the Pats.

Now, go ahead and spew off some childish insults toward me. It's all you've got.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

In your zeal to jump my shit, you've done little more than to make my point. Of course I heard all of those things you spewed off. What I have not heard is an NFL QB say that there's a significant difference between an 11.5psi ball and a 12.5psi ball and that they can readily tell the difference.

That nobody could tell the difference as you point out is precisely what I'm saying. I won't spew off insults like you have because it's not what I do but this notion you're forwarding that only QBs can and should know what an NFL football feels like is what's absurd to me.

.

I'm not saying nobody. I've listed a dozen QB's who talked about how important game ball pressure is to them. You were the one saying you never heard NFL QB's talk about how important pressure was in their football, which I think is a blatant lie and yes I called you out on that. I will do it again if you try to play this game where you want to pretend to be completely ignorant.

You do realize that Brady has said multiple times he prefers the ball at 12.5 psi... Yes he has said again and again there's a significant difference, because he talked at length about being on the low end of that 1 PSI range. You can't play both sides of this.

But then you are saying he has no idea what 12.5 psi feels like? That Rodgers likes his at 13.5 but these guys have no idea the difference of that pound of pressure?

And as for the impact, you are talking about one thing... If a pitcher uses steroids and his ERA doesn't go down, do you think he is less of a cheater than a guy who uses those same exact steroids and his home runs go up by 20? Of course not. To me how successful or not you are with your cheating isn't that important.

I think cheating in the course of the game is a much bigger infraction than cheating in an OTA. I hope you do too, because you can't just generalize and say everything is the same. It would be like me saying if Gronk got arrested for being drunk in public that I think since Aaron Hernandez got kicked out of the league for being arrested Gronk should get the same punishment. I can't sit there and make those kinds of generalizations on situations, they are different to me, and same with cheating and breaking rules, there's a HUGE range there.

And I'm not a hater, so please don't put words in my mouth here... I like the Pats, I just can't put make myself say these things you do to try and defend that position you are taking. You really are going well outside the bounds of reality to make your point. I can't live in that fairy tale land, sorry. Enjoy your thread.

 

[NEhomer]

You made the claim that Trent Dilfer could easily tell the difference but then it was just something you recalled out of memory. I never saw it. I'm wondering if you did.

Mark 10 balls and make 6 of them 12.5 and 4 of them 11.5 and without knowing how many of each, have Trent or any other QB accurately pick out which is which and I'll do a 180 on the entire issue.

And as for the impact, you are talking about one thing... If a pitcher uses steroids and his ERA doesn't go down, do you think he is less of a cheater than a guy who uses those same exact steroids and his home runs go up by 20? Of course not. To me how successful or not you are with your cheating isn't that important.

Ok, so now we've come full circle back to cheating is cheating regardless of impact. Fine, then I guess the Raven's cheating must be the same as the Pat's cheating.

You're the one trying to have it both ways.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

You made the claim that Trent Dilfer could easily tell the difference but then it was just something you recalled out of memory. I never saw it. I'm wondering if you did.

Mark 10 balls and make 6 of them 12.5 and 4 of them 11.5 and without knowing how many of each, have Trent or any other QB accurately pick out which is which and I'll do a 180 on the entire issue.

And as for the impact, you are talking about one thing... If a pitcher uses steroids and his ERA doesn't go down, do you think he is less of a cheater than a guy who uses those same exact steroids and his home runs go up by 20? Of course not. To me how successful or not you are with your cheating isn't that important.

Ok, so now we've come full circle back to cheating is cheating regardless of impact. Fine, then I guess the Raven's cheating must be the same as the Pat's cheating.

You're the one trying to have it both ways.

Oh my, you do see I am using the SAME EXACT form of cheating with different results. No, cheating isn't cheating across the board... don't put words in my mouth, if you could read, I said the EXACT OPPOSITE when talking about different types of cheating.

You have to enter this world of overstatement and absolutes to make your points.. That isn't how things work.

And 11.5 to 12.5 would be legal. These were what? 1-2 PSI below bottom limit, so about 2 PSI exactly below the middle range game ball? I promise you, you would not do a 180 if a retired QB proved he could tell the difference between 11 and 13 psi.

 

[redseat]

Here is the actual ball Tom wants to use...
View attachment 119789

is that your kids football? or yours? I know you're a closet Pats fan

 

[NEhomer]

Cheating is cheating OR cheating that offers less benefit is a lessor offense.

Pick one. I can live with either one but this thread has given the Ravens a pass.

 

[Manster7588]

Cheating is cheating OR cheating that offers less benefit is a lessor offense.

Pick one. I can live with either one but this thread has given the Ravens a pass.

Cheating is cheating, but 5 minutes illegally in pads on the practice is no where near the same as in game cheating. You can cry all you want but this on no way equals Brady and the Pats. My advice to you is drop it, your embarrassing yourself.

 

[Money]

Cheating is cheating OR cheating that offers less benefit is a lessor offense.

Pick one. I can live with either one but this thread has given the Ravens a pass.

If it turns out the Ravens knowingly did this, then they should certainly be penalized more harshly than if they were just ignorant of the rule. If they knowingly did this, it's cheating and incredibly annoying as a fan. Either way, this incident doesn't even scratch the surface of the "Gates". Common sense tells most people that.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Cheating is cheating OR cheating that offers less benefit is a lessor offense.

Pick one. I can live with either one but this thread has given the Ravens a pass.

Sorry I am not an absolutist like that. If a coach accidently mentions that he'd like to coach Revis again next year, that is cheating. So is lining your helmets and shoulder pads with lead so every hit causes injuries. I can't sit here and pretend that it's all or nothing to make me feel better about a team because of the jersey they wear.

It's why we have different penalties. It's why jumping off-sides gets a different penalty than dragging a guy down by his facemask.

You really think if a team cheats by a WR trimming their thigh pads, that he deserves the same league wide ban a player would get for cheating by shaving points for betting or running out on the field and cheating by illegally hitting a QB outside of the play to knock him out of the game. You can't be serious with what you are typing can you?

I'm sorry but yes.. If the Eagles cheated in a way that directly impacted the game on the field and tried to cover it up, and another team cheated by breaking an OTA rule and was open about what they did, I would treat them differently BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT.

Now if Philly had a bounty system and went 4-12 with an awful D, and Pittsburgh had the exact same type of one too and went 12-4 with a great D, I think both teams should be penalized the same barring differing circumstances (IE one of the teams hired Greg Williams, they should be hit harder as it would be his 2nd offense).

 

[NEhomer]

Ok, so now we're back to the impact upon the game factoring into the severity of the offense.

Got it.

It's just that none of that has historically been permissible here at the Hoop while it pertained to the Patriots.

 

[Manster7588]

Ok, so now we're back to the impact upon the game factoring into the severity of the offense.

Got it.

It's just that none of that has historically been permissible here at the Hoop while it pertained to the Patriots.

Lets put it this way. If student 1 cheats off of another student in class, and student 2 cheats by stealing the test before hand, will their punishment be the same?

What about robberies, are all treated equally or does the amount stolen play into the punishment. Why do you insist on a broad brush for punishment?

 

[NEhomer]

Lets put it this way. If student 1 cheats off of another student in class, and student 2 cheats by stealing the test before hand, will their punishment be the same?

What about robberies, are all treated equally or does the amount stolen play into the punishment. Why do you insist on a broad brush for punishment?

Great examples. I'm down with that.

After re-inflating the balls the Colts got their asses kicked even worse. Guess it was less of a big deal then.

 

[Manster7588]

Great examples. I'm down with that.

After re-inflating the balls the Colts got their asses kicked even worse. Guess it was less of a big deal then.

If it wasn't a big deal why did Brady do it. Again I'm not excusing Brady or any other player on two quarters. Oh and by the way Bradys suspension isn't about the deflated footballs, it's about his non cooperation in the investigation.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Great examples. I'm down with that.

After re-inflating the balls the Colts got their asses kicked even worse. Guess it was less of a big deal then.

Really??? Kid steals a 25 cent piece of gum and you want him in prison for 20 years with a guy who ran a ponzi scheme on the elderly? That is what you are willing to go to in order to defend him?

And I knew you'd back down off doing a 180 if someone could tell a 2psi difference.

 

[NEhomer]

Really??? Kid steals a 25 cent piece of gum and you want him in prison for 20 years with a guy who ran a ponzi scheme on the elderly? That is what you are willing to go to in order to defend him?

And I knew you'd back down off doing a 180 if someone could tell a 2psi difference.

I honestly don't know what to say to you. I'm telling you that any attempt to mitigate the benefit of any Pats transgression has historically been off limits. In this thread that phenomenon has been allowed for the Ravens. It's as simple as that. You've flip-flopped back and forth.

 

[NEhomer]

Really??? Kid steals a 25 cent piece of gum and you want him in prison for 20 years with a guy who ran a ponzi scheme on the elderly? That is what you are willing to go to in order to defend him?

And I knew you'd back down off doing a 180 if someone could tell a 2psi difference.

Who's passed the squeeze test?

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Who's passed the squeeze test?

I am glad you asked...

Mark Brunell and other ex-players crushed Tom Brady on ESPN

There's the article on it by the washington Post. It was Mark Brunell who passed it, in like 5 seconds of touching the ball, pretty clear and easy.

So 180 then?