Stamkos Philly bound?

[awaz]

i think its possible that he leaves tampa.. but everything i'm reading expects the flyers to have around 8 mil in space to sign simmonds and voracek at least.. and possibly leino.. i dont understand why people think the flyers have the space to make this move.. simmonds and voracek HAVE to be signed and that will take around 4.. down to 4, move versteeg and i guess you have 7 mil to offer.. but he's rejecting 7.5 from all accounts, could be just so he gets to july 1 and has hope of leaving tampa.. but i just dont see how the flyers can make this move

 

[dspice07]

i think its possible that he leaves tampa.. but everything i'm reading expects the flyers to have around 8 mil in space to sign simmonds and voracek at least.. and possibly leino.. i dont understand why people think the flyers have the space to make this move.. simmonds and voracek HAVE to be signed and that will take around 4.. down to 4, move versteeg and i guess you have 7 mil to offer.. but he's rejecting 7.5 from all accounts, could be just so he gets to july 1 and has hope of leaving tampa.. but i just dont see how the flyers can make this move

ummm well you'd just have to assume they traded bob and carle at that pt. don't get me wrong i want this to happen, but it is nearly impossible.

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

ummm well you'd just have to assume they traded bob and carle at that pt. don't get me wrong i want this to happen, but it is nearly impossible.

I think if versteeg and carle are on our team in the next 2 days, then it is over and we can stop talking about it.

IF they get moved, this will blow up.

 

[flyersfan4706]

Co-signed

Co-co-signed

 

[PhillyFate48]

The Flyers didn't clean house and dump there Captain for nothing so.....be prepared fpr anything!!!

 

[ELYEAH82]

wouldn't surprise me, you guys haven't won the cup in a few years so the league will have to do something to keep you penguin 'faithful' in the seats

I noticed the Phils attendance shoot up recently...

 

[KS32790]

I noticed the Phils attendance shoot up recently...

Anyone that is a pitt fan should never talk about attendance...especially in baseball

 

[ELYEAH82]

Anyone that is a pitt fan should never talk about attendance...especially in baseball

Talk to me when the Phillies set the record for most seasons below .500 in a row. FYI I am a 20 year indians fan, not that it is much better.

 

[awaz]

ummm well you'd just have to assume they traded bob and carle at that pt. don't get me wrong i want this to happen, but it is nearly impossible.

oh we're not arguing.. we're going over it and i'm trying to decide if i want it to happen haha

what it boils down to is you're looking at 2 trades..

1. carle + versteeg + 4 1st round picks

or

2. giroux or jvr/shenn + bob + picks

i'm not sure i'm willing to do either of those.. especially if the link on the main board about the flyers mulling over, or have already offered a 12 yr - 115 mil year deal (9.58 cap hit).. thats a CRAZY contract on top of all the pieces they would have to move..

 

[flyersfan4706]

Is Stamkos that fucking good? I mean come on...

 

[wbon22]

Is Stamkos that fucking good? I mean come on...

He's pretty damn good. He has Justin Williams/Simon Gagne pre hip injury speed. I have never seen that extra gear that Gags had, but people say he has it. He is a puck hawk. He knows how to get to open areas on the ice, he frames his stick well to take a pass and shoot. He is not a great two way player, but he is not hopeless. He bangs, but that is not his job.

He over 90 goals the last two season, he is a right handed shot...he is a really really really good player. Yeah, in a no cap world, i would toss the city at him. In a cap world, it is a little more difficult. AND, there is the question of the holes that getting him will create. (remember trading Ricci, Duschene, Forsberg and Hextall for Lindros?)

 

[dspice07]

I noticed the Phils attendance shoot up recently...

geez took you long enough to see that :attention:

 

[flyersfan4706]

He's pretty damn good. He has Justin Williams/Simon Gagne pre hip injury speed. I have never seen that extra gear that Gags had, but people say he has it. He is a puck hawk. He knows how to get to open areas on the ice, he frames his stick well to take a pass and shoot. He is not a great two way player, but he is not hopeless. He bangs, but that is not his job.

He over 90 goals the last two season, he is a right handed shot...he is a really really really good player. Yeah, in a no cap world, i would toss the city at him. In a cap world, it is a little more difficult. AND, there is the question of the holes that getting him will create. (remember trading Ricci, Duschene, Forsberg and Hextall for Lindros?)

Well I know he is amazing, I just dotn think he is as good as everything people are willing to give him. It is times like these when i hate the cap. We could have Stamkos, I bet a few years back we couldve signed Chara. It is dissapointing.

 

[flyersfan4706]

Stamkos, Stamkos, Stamkos: Pros and cons to the Flyers sending Steven an offer sheet - Broad Street Hockey

Steven Stamkos could come to Philadelphia. He could be a Flyer. Like, it could actually happen.

We've been silent on the issue all week because there was so much information back and forth that it just seemed crazy, but we're starting to get a clearer picture of things now, with both Frank Seravalli and Anthony SanFilippo reporting similar things this afternoon.

So, first: the basics. Both reporters have said that if the Flyers do indeed decide to send Stamkos an offer sheet, it would be a $115 million deal over 12 years. That's about a $9.5 million cap hit until 2023 with a no-trade clause that would, by rule, not be able to kick in until 2017.

The Lightning can match the offer sheet, for starters. There are plenty of reports out there, most notably from Erik Erlendsson of the Tampa Tribune, saying that Bolts owner Jeff Vinik will certainly match any offer sheet on Stamkos. He only paid $110 million for the team when he bought them before last season, so it's pretty funny that this could be worth more than that -- but at the same time, he's a bazillionaire and has the money to match any offer.

There are a ton of pros and a ton of cons, so let's get right into them.



Pros

- It's Steven Stamkos. Come on now. Picture him on a line with Claude Giroux and James van Riemsdyk. Like, do it. It makes you cry, doesn't it? Happy, happy tears of joy.

- It'd be pretty funny if NHL 12 had to change its cover just a week after unveiling it.

- Even if the Flyers don't get Stamkos, the Lightning would be forced to match the offer, running up the price on Stamkos to an ridiculous number.

- Money? Whatever.

- He doesn't get that NTC until 2017, so if push came to shove, he could be traded if the Flyers were against a wall and things didn't work out. It's not as painful as the Chris Pronger trade in that regard, where it won't almost inevitably bite the team.

Cons
- Holy shit, that's a lot of money.

- Excuse me, but again, the Flyers can only spend $64.3 million on their team next year. If you're giving Stamkos more than $9 million of that and you're giving Ilya Bryzgalov $5.6 million and you're giving Danny Briere $6.5 million and you're giving Kimmo Timonen ... I mean, there's a point where the numbers just don't work. Again.

- You're giving up four first round picks to the Lightning as compensation. Four of them. One in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015. Yes, believe it or not, the Flyers have all of those picks to give, too.

- You're probably giving up a whooooole lot to get him. Not just the money, not just the picks. Current roster players. There's a cap, and somebody would have to go. Danny Briere? Some mix of a bunch of different players? Either way, you're probably opening up a hole somewhere else (defense, somewhere else up front), and you likely won't have the leftover cash to fill that hole.

- Say you go through the process, Tampa matches and you don't sign him. The process is going to drag out past July 1. The Lightning can mull the offer for seven days before matching, and seven days after July 1 is July 8, and in that case, with such a thin UFA market this year, the Flyers might not have any more options when it comes to filling out the holes they already have on the roster --- let alone any holes created by the moves necessary to get Stamkos.

That means that, in theory, the Flyers could send him an offer sheet, be stuck without the ability to do much for eight days because all of their eggs are in the Stamkos basket, and then he could just sign in Tampa anyway and we'd be screwed.

The bottom line is simple: every player has a price. Is this one worth it for Steven Stamkos?

 

[banditshcky11]

Stamkos, Stamkos, Stamkos: Pros and cons to the Flyers sending Steven an offer sheet - Broad Street Hockey

I think this move is totally worth it in the long run, and honestly if we can deal Briere to make it happen I'm all for it. I won't lie I'm not a huge Danny B fan, I thinhk he's too soft at times and let's his small stature be his excuse for not getting in high lane areas ate times(see the Boston series). I will give the man credit that he is a world class talent and there are few as good around the net as he is. However, Stamkos is definitely one of the few that are better.

Imagine if you will a 1-2 punch of Stamkos/Giroux . We have the offensive core that should be able to set 2 lines up that could be real scoring threats at any time. Our defense is deep and with the addition of Bryz now may be the best time to make a bold move in order to increase our chances to make a run for the cup.

Now I know that the cap is a huge issue and I agree considering the fact that Homer has shown that he really has little long term cap management plan. Consider this though our line-up could look like this with a trade of Briere and not re-signing Leino(since I have heard his people and the FLyers may be far apart on numbers and the addition of Stamkos...


CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Steven Stamkos ($9.000m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Tom Sestito ($0.550m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m)
/ Jakub Voracek ($2.000m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,745,872; BONUSES: $3,940,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,554,128

You then must consider that in the coming years we will have money freed up and hopefully and increase in cap space which will insure that our young core will stay signed(Giroux, JVR, Coburn & company). This is just a quick post and my thoughts are a little scattered right now.

All I'm trying to point out is that in the long rong even though it may be a bit pricey right now, how can anyone debate obtaining one of the best players in hockey to add to an already young & talented core could be a bad thing if it gives us a better chance at a cup?

 

[flyersfan4706]

Strange, I was texting a buddy earlier and Briere's name was the one we threw aorund as th ename to be moved.

There are two issues that scare me. The 7 day waiting period and the 4 1st rounders.

I am just scared thta we will move Briere or some big name only to not get Stamkos. The 4 1st rounders are obvious, however we have made ourselves younger. Just the D scares me in a few years when Kimmo and Pronger start coming out of the locker room using walkers with tennis balls on the feet. The lines are sexy, but thin.

Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Tom Sestito ($0.550m)

I cant see Giroux getting too much production form this line. Simmonds is more of a though guy than a scorer, correct? I dont know anything about Sestito, but I suppose that he is just a generic 4th liner.

James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)

Versteeg, the myth. Dont know what he will be like this year, as he could be awesome or a total bust. And Nodl is Nodl.

Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Steven Stamkos ($9.000m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)

Stamkos and Schenn, yes. Hartnell, I think he'd slow this line down, even if it does add a hockey-like diversity.


Also, I notice Voracek isnt on here. I am sure Homer is going to lock him up before he moves on with Stamkos

 

[banditshcky11]

Strange, I was texting a buddy earlier and Briere's name was the one we threw aorund as th ename to be moved.

There are two issues that scare me. The 7 day waiting period and the 4 1st rounders.

I am just scared thta we will move Briere or some big name only to not get Stamkos. The 4 1st rounders are obvious, however we have made ourselves younger. Just the D scares me in a few years when Kimmo and Pronger start coming out of the locker room using walkers with tennis balls on the feet. The lines are sexy, but thin.



I cant see Giroux getting too much production form this line. Simmonds is more of a though guy than a scorer, correct? I dont know anything about Sestito, but I suppose that he is just a generic 4th liner.



Versteeg, the myth. Dont know what he will be like this year, as he could be awesome or a total bust. And Nodl is Nodl.



Stamkos and Schenn, yes. Hartnell, I think he'd slow this line down, even if it does add a hockey-like diversity.


Also, I notice Voracek isnt on here. I am sure Homer is going to lock him up before he moves on with Stamkos

Sorry I didn't really organize my lines of who I thought would be playing with who.

I'd prob go

Harts-Stamkos-Vorachek
JVR-Giroux-Schenn
Simmonds-Versteeg-Nodl
Rinaldo(Sestito)-Betts-Holmstrom

I can't edit my post to reflect this(I was just using that to show cap implications) , but there are certain unknowns as well if Couturier is ready to play I'd slot him in the 3rd line center rol with Simmonds and Versteeg or possibly trade Versteeg to recoup some sort of prospects.

 

[awaz]

those lines look terrible in my eyes, but i assume you weren't focused on that, even rearranging them still makes them look pretty weak..

jvr.stamkos.voracek
simmonds.giroux.hartnell
shenn.holmstrom.versteeg
nodl.betts.sestito

i think those lines are better, but still not good.. you're basically left with 1 shooter, 1 set up guy, maybe 2 depending on how voracek plays, a couple power forwards and a bunch of guys that can score 10 goals

even if stamkos scores 55, and say giroux and jvr combine for 60.. where are the rest of your goals going to come from? 20 maybe from each hartnell and simmonds.. 15 from voracek and maybe 15 from shenn and steeg.. thats 180 goals with very little offensive talent left.. i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say they get 30 from betts, sestito, nodl, and holmstrom

thats a total of 210 goals (2.56 goals/game).. good for 25th in the league

and a lot of those are big ifs.. asking stamkos to provide 55 is a lot.. giroux and jvr 30 each, is a lofty goal.. and what happens if one of them goes down?

the crippling effect doesn't even bring up the 1st round pick problem

its a bad idea.

 

[banditshcky11]

those lines look terrible in my eyes, but i assume you weren't focused on that, even rearranging them still makes them look pretty weak..

jvr.stamkos.voracek
simmonds.giroux.hartnell
nodl.holmstrom.versteeg
rinaldo.betts.sestito

i think those lines are better, but still not good.. you're basically left with 1 shooter, 1 set up guy, maybe 2 depending on how voracek plays, a couple power forwards and a bunch of guys that can score 10 goals

even if stamkos scores 55, and say giroux and jvr combine for 60.. where are the rest of your goals going to come from? 20 maybe from each hartnell and simmonds.. 15 from voracek and maybe 15 from shenn.. thats 165 goals with very little offensive talent left.. i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say they get 3 from betts, sestito, nodl, rinaldo, and holmstrom

thats a total of 200 goals (2.43 goals/game).. good for 27th in the league

and a lot of those are big ifs.. asking stamkos to provide 55 is a lot.. giroux and jvr 30 each, is a lofty goal.. and what happens if one of them goes down?

its a bad idea.

so you're saying keeping Brieres and his maybe 30 goals and resigning Leino and his 20? is better then getting Stamkos who will prob have the same goal production??? Also since when do the Flyers ever keep their own first round picks ? :P

Is that your only arguement?

 

[awaz]

stamkos isn't a guy that makes his linemates better.. he's the opposite i think.. he needs a good linemate for him to produce.. i think it would be hard to note put giroux with him.. but then shenn is your 2nd line center basically.. is that worth it?